CGC et al To Aggressively Defend Against Lawsuit Filed In Pennsylvania

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No one buys an upgraded book. They often buy non Lambertville, but someone graded it.

 

You need to punch your autocorrect in the taint.

All my books are non Lambertville....the way the good lord intended.

No one buys an upgraded book. They often buy non Lambertville, but someone graded it.

 

You need to punch your autocorrect in the taint.

One of the interesting paragraphs is the claim that "before a book is sold, it must be graded." That is not true in any regard.

 

If you are talking about item #13, the actual quote is "Before a restored comic can be sold it must be graded."

 

Which is clearly untrue. I've bought raw books where the resto has been disclosed. The auction houses list raw books with resto noted.

I am not supporting the quote. Simply accuratizing the quote.

This seems like a weird lawsuit, surely CGC have no automatic obligation to grade anything they don't want to? Particularly as there's other companies doing the exact same grading job.

Or is that too simplistic way to look at it?

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 11:02 AM, Mark Zaid said:

Many of you may recognize some of the allegations as having been the subject of discussion in this Gold Comics thread entitled "There's a Restored 9.4 Tec 33 Blowing up on Ebay" from 2015-16 where the Meyers posted under the username "igb":

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9083257&fpart=1

Dead link.  @Architecht

Here it is: 

Any news on this legal battle?

@jaybuck43 maybe?

38 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Any news on this legal battle?

@jaybuck43 maybe?

Heritage was added as a defendant.  Zaid was admitted PHV to represent CGC (since he isn't admitted in PA).  CGC filed a request to have the case thrown out for non convenience (since they are all in Florida), but that was denied a week and a half ago.  Discovery is due in April.  Settlement conference (this is standard, bring the parties together to try to avoid a trial) is scheduled for July 2nd.  If that doesn't work, projected trial start date is September 3rd.  (of course these dates will almost assuredly be changed).  

10 minutes ago, jaybuck43 said:

Heritage was added as a defendant.  Zaid was admitted PHV to represent CGC (since he isn't admitted in PA).  CGC filed a request to have the case thrown out for non convenience (since they are all in Florida), but that was denied a week and a half ago.  Discovery is due in April.  Settlement conference (this is standard, bring the parties together to try to avoid a trial) is scheduled for July 2nd.  If that doesn't work, projected trial start date is September 3rd.  (of course these dates will almost assuredly be changed).  

Thank you. Did not want to bother you but I knew you'd be able to give a solid answer.

I had completely forgotten about this topic until IGB was mentioned in another thread.  They currently have this restored Detective 33 on eBay -- https://www.ebay.com/itm/Detective-Comics-33-CGC-9-4-A-5-Highest-Graded-Origin-of-Batman-1939-DC-GA-Key-/132501580681

Graded by CGC 12/15/2017

Maybe there's a détente coming?

On 12/24/2016 at 11:46 AM, Tony S said:

 

You make a good point on the "reputation" issue of the complaint. Thank you.

 

I think the reputation part is mostly opinion. Of course the courts rule on such lawsuits all the time. But we aren't talking about CNN reports or the Washington Post newspaper. We are talking about a discussion board with an official moderation rule of not allowing promotion of competitors.

 

I'm better informed about comic book stuff, restoration issues and on the boards fairly regularly - and I never heard of IGB before. I don't read the Golden Age posts. I had noticed that some 9.4 restored big keys were appearing on the market. But didn't give that much thought.

 

Many board members I have long believed sort of get lost in the level of importance the Collector Society boards have in the hobby and just how common professionally graded and slabbed books are. This place is small compared to the collecting universe. The number of people that collect slabbed books is small compared to the collecting universe. If you look at say the Wikipedia article on comic book collection, this discussion board isn't even mentioned. Comics.org and the comic book database are. This place is important to some that visit. But my experience is the vast majority of collectors walking into a comic book store have never heard of the Collector Society board, don't own any slabbed books.

 

With a few resources one could probably arrive at a rough estimate of the number of comic book fans. Circulation of the OPG, comic book store orders through Diamond, attendance of shows. The average daily, weekly, monthly attendance of unique visitors here and even how many people have read related posts are no doubt available here

 

I suspect that the percentage of likely comic book collectors and fans that are board members that visit regularly is SHOCKINGLY small. Like tiny, minuscule.

 

So lets say I'm judge or jury member, told to focus on just the potential damage to the reputation of the plaintiff. I'd first have to be convinced that even a mostly one sided discussions on a fan discussion board resulted in any damage. It's a discussion board, not a news organization. It's like suing people for talking to each other.

People that think about being members of a jury are 100% horrible members of a jury.

To CGC Community:

I wanted to update everyone on the lawsuit that was filed on December 13, 2016, in the Court of Common Pleas of Philadelphia County by Matthew & Emily Meyers, as well as by their business Investment Grade Books, LLC. Named as defendants were CGC, CCS, Matt Nelson and Heritage Auctions, Inc. In all five claims were asserted against the defendants. The Meyers claim (1) Defamation and (2) False Light, while IGB alleges (3) Intentional Interference with Existing Business Relations and (4) Intentional Interference with Prospective Contractual Relations. Both the Meyers and IGB are jointly pursuing a claim of (5) Civil Conspiracy. For those not familiar with the litigation, you can download a copy of the Complaint from https://www.docdroid.net/Dx6w7uS/complaint.pdf.html.

For much of the last 18 months we have been engaging in the exchange of written discovery and depositions. We deposed both Meyers and they deposed Harshen Patel, Matt Nelson, Paul Litch and a number of Heritage employees. Most recently they named Steve Borock as one of their expert witnesses.

On June 21, 2018, all the plaintiffs filed Motions for Summary Judgment, i.e., that there are no set of material facts that remain unknown and judgment should be entered against the defendants as a matter of law. The Meyers' response is currently due at the end of this month. You can read our Memorandum of Law in support of Summary Judgment by clicking here: https://www.scribd.com/document/383525574/CGC-Summary-Judgment-Memo-of-Law6-21-18.

A ruling is not expected until at least the end of this year, and possibly next year.

Mark S. Zaid, Esq.

Lead Counsel

3 hours ago, Mark Zaid said:

To CGC Community:

I wanted to update everyone on the lawsuit that was filed on December 13, 2016, in the Court of Common Pleas of Philadelphia County by Matthew & Emily Meyers, as well as by their business Investment Grade Books, LLC. Named as defendants were CGC, CCS, Matt Nelson and Heritage Auctions, Inc. In all five claims were asserted against the defendants. The Meyers claim (1) Defamation and (2) False Light, while IGB alleges (3) Intentional Interference with Existing Business Relations and (4) Intentional Interference with Prospective Contractual Relations. Both the Meyers and IGB are jointly pursuing a claim of (5) Civil Conspiracy. For those not familiar with the litigation, you can download a copy of the Complaint from https://www.docdroid.net/Dx6w7uS/complaint.pdf.html.

For much of the last 18 months we have been engaging in the exchange of written discovery and depositions. We deposed both Meyers and they deposed Harshen Patel, Matt Nelson, Paul Litch and a number of Heritage employees. Most recently they named Steve Borock as one of their expert witnesses.

On June 21, 2018, all the plaintiffs filed Motions for Summary Judgment, i.e., that there are no set of material facts that remain unknown and judgment should be entered against the defendants as a matter of law. The Meyers' response is currently due at the end of this month. You can read our Memorandum of Law in support of Summary Judgment by clicking here: https://www.scribd.com/document/383525574/CGC-Summary-Judgment-Memo-of-Law6-21-18.

A ruling is not expected until at least the end of this year, and possibly next year.

Mark S. Zaid, Esq.

Lead Counsel

 

I only made it through the first two pages of the suit, and insofar it's been mundane and quite the bore to skim through.  Bottom line is I think CGC should be subject to government regulation just as other security exchanges and financial institutions are.  It's a private company, but they have a full-blown comic book restoration in-house which affects the grades they assign and ultimately the dollar value of items.  While CGC claims to have quality control established to keep submitter's identities concealed, let's be honest, books are submitted by auction houses (anxious to see here what percentage or shares Heritage or its executives own in Collectibles Guarantee LLC.); so to a certain degree CGC knows who is sending what in, and it's hard to gauge whose hands are down whose pants.  Hopefully, the suit provides some level of transparency for all.

Zaid with all the cabinet hirings and firings, security clearances being renewed and revoked these days I'm surprised you have time to deal with this s#&t.

Somebody needs to sue the other grading company and their "expert" witness for grading those frankenbooks too high.

45 minutes ago, HENRYSPENCER said:

(anxious to see here what percentage or shares Heritage or its executives own in Collectibles Guarantee LLC.)

 

Halperin has freely admitted that CGC is owned by Halperin and Steve Ivy, in public and recorded interview

13 minutes ago, Bronty said:

Halperin has freely admitted that CGC is owned by Halperin and Steve Ivy, in public and recorded interview

That I have a problem with.  It's like the kid who wants to work at the local record store so he can buy more records.  Do you think the store upon hiring him would then let him set store prices?

6 minutes ago, HENRYSPENCER said:

That I have a problem with.  It's like the kid who wants to work at the local record store so he can buy more records.  Do you think the store upon hiring him would then let him set store prices?

Well, I'm not sure I follow the analogy, but the business plan is pretty simple and ultimately, sensible.    We have an auction house.   We want to grow the hobby to earn more commissions.   In order for the grow past flea market deals it needs certification.   They go and set up an entity to provide certification.   

I don't know if CGC makes money or not, but even if its a loss leader it makes perfect sense for Heritage (or Ivy/Halperin).

Is it a little untoward to have the auction house principals own the certification house, yes, although I'm not going to pretend to have a firm enough understanding to know where the line is drawn.   Certainly there's the potential for conflict and one can look at it that way and with a reasonable amount of skepticism, but also there's the reality that it was required to grow the hobby and no one else was going to do it.        At the end of the day, I'm glad they did it.   I think the hobby has grown immeasurably as a result.    

And to Halperin's credit, he's never tried to hide anything.   He's very transparent in his interviews.

Personally I think the best way to solve this is with a good old fashion tickle fight, who ever laughs the loudest loses, but I am not an expert and I don't know the laws in Pennsylvania.

8 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

Personally I think the best way to solve this is with a good old fashion tickle fight, who ever laughs the loudest loses, but I am not an expert and I don't know the laws in Pennsylvania.

They should have to do it in Batman pajamas, too.