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#9791365 - 02/05/17 05:18 PM A problem with CAC.
JVC Offline
Collector


Registered: 02/05/12
Posts: 98
Loc: Texas
A lot has been posted lately about the pros and cons of CAC. I happen to like CAC and believe it helps more than it hurts the hobby.

I like to collect high grade Morgan Dollars and I believe I have a good eye for quality. Most of the coins I purchase are coins that are A/B for the grade and that CAC will bless with a bean. In my opinion, it is becoming harder and harder to find A/B coins with have a value of $1,000.00 or more that have not been sent to CAC. If I end up purchasing a CAC approved coin, I end up paying a premium. It could be that A/B coins always demanded a premium, but now it seems that coins with a CAC sticker leave less room for negotiation of price.

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#9791378 - 02/05/17 05:37 PM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: JVC]
MJ Offline
The Post-man always rings twice. Uhm... ring ring?


Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 1689
Loc: coast to coast
No question there has been unintended consequences. For me the the positives outweigh the negatives.

mark
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#9791400 - 02/05/17 05:53 PM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: JVC]
MarkFeld Offline
Dealer
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 12243
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: JVC
A lot has been posted lately about the pros and cons of CAC. I happen to like CAC and believe it helps more than it hurts the hobby.

I like to collect high grade Morgan Dollars and I believe I have a good eye for quality. Most of the coins I purchase are coins that are A/B for the grade and that CAC will bless with a bean. In my opinion, it is becoming harder and harder to find A/B coins with have a value of $1,000.00 or more that have not been sent to CAC. If I end up purchasing a CAC approved coin, I end up paying a premium. It could be that A/B coins always demanded a premium, but now it seems that coins with a CAC sticker leave less room for negotiation of price.


I'm guessing you meant that CAC coins tend to leave less room for negotiation of a low price. I say that, because my experience has been that some sellers are reasonable/fair and others aren't. And for each type of seller, that applies to non CAC coins, CAC coins, certified coins, uncertified coins, etc. in other words, if a seller wants too much for his CAC coins, my guess is that he will also want too much for his non-CAC coins.
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Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

Unless otherwise stated, the opinions I express here are my own.

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#9791511 - 02/05/17 07:46 PM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: MarkFeld]
Afterword Offline
Up 20 words per minute since I signed up


Registered: 12/25/13
Posts: 1223
Loc: Leavenworth, KS
However, I suspect a seller would find it easier to acquire too much for a CAC coin than a non-CAC coin.
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Disclaimer: And I don't know what I am talking about - never did, don't now and never plan to.

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#9791528 - 02/05/17 08:02 PM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: Afterword]
MarkFeld Offline
Dealer
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 12243
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Afterword
However, I suspect a seller would find it easier to acquire too much for a CAC coin than a non-CAC coin.


I wouldn't suspect that. Enough unknowledgeable buyers either don't know about CAC, and/or are quite capable of paying way too much for coins.
_________________________
Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

Unless otherwise stated, the opinions I express here are my own.

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#9791587 - 02/05/17 08:49 PM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: MarkFeld]
Afterword Offline
Up 20 words per minute since I signed up


Registered: 12/25/13
Posts: 1223
Loc: Leavenworth, KS
 Originally Posted By: MarkFeld
 Originally Posted By: Afterword
However, I suspect a seller would find it easier to acquire too much for a CAC coin than a non-CAC coin.


I wouldn't suspect that. Enough unknowledgeable buyers either don't know about CAC, and/or are quite capable of paying way too much for coins.




I would think that knowledgeable sellers/dealers are quite capable of taking full advantage of CAC coins, as well as educating less knowledgeable buyers on the subject. It makes for a great sales pitch that does not solely rely on the seller's opinion that the coin is high-end for the grade. The buyer could be directed to the CAC website for confirmation.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the seller/dealer would find it easier to ask for too much.
_________________________
Disclaimer: And I don't know what I am talking about - never did, don't now and never plan to.

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#9791614 - 02/05/17 09:18 PM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: Afterword]
MarkFeld Offline
Dealer
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 12243
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Afterword
 Originally Posted By: MarkFeld
 Originally Posted By: Afterword
However, I suspect a seller would find it easier to acquire too much for a CAC coin than a non-CAC coin.


I wouldn't suspect that. Enough unknowledgeable buyers either don't know about CAC, and/or are quite capable of paying way too much for coins.




I would think that knowledgeable sellers/dealers are quite capable of taking full advantage of CAC coins, as well as educating less knowledgeable buyers on the subject. It makes for a great sales pitch that does not solely rely on the seller's opinion that the coin is high-end for the grade. The buyer could be directed to the CAC website for confirmation.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the seller/dealer would find it easier to ask for too much.


I could be wrong, too and I can't fairly claim that my speculation is any more valid than yours.
_________________________
Mark Feld of Heritage Auctions

Unless otherwise stated, the opinions I express here are my own.

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#9791626 - 02/05/17 09:28 PM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: MarkFeld]
coinman_23885 Offline
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 9336
 Originally Posted By: MarkFeld
 Originally Posted By: Afterword
[quote=MarkFeld][quote=Afterword]However, I suspect a seller would find it easier to acquire too much for a CAC coin than a non-CAC coin.


I wouldn't suspect that. Enough unknowledgeable buyers either don't know about CAC, and/or are quite capable of paying way too much for coins.


I think you are discounting the power of CAC bids. In some cases and for some series, the bids are not as strong. For some series, however, the bids have been very high (or at least they were in the past). When I sold most of my classic commemoratives a few years ago, I submitted them to CAC and solicited bids. In a fair number of cases, CAC's bids were higher than what I could purchase stickered coins for on eBay. In those instances, it is much easier to acquire too much for a CAC coin if CAC itself pays too much for the coin. Even if only temporarily, it creates an artificial floor as most reasonable people would check with CAC before auctioning off an item or putting it on eBay as a BIN listing.

With that said, CAC's bids have gone down considerably in the last couple of years, and their margin appears to be larger than it once was. Nevertheless, I have received some surprising bids on occasion, including one for a seated liberty coin that I let go last week that was for more than $100 over PCGS price guide value. Every now and then, CAC will surprise me with a very strong offer (i.e. one that is more than fair especially when from a dealer).


Edited by coinman_23885 (02/05/17 09:39 PM)

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#9791994 - 02/06/17 05:49 AM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: JVC]
James_OldeTowne Offline
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 15715
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Why is it so important to (seemingly) everyone to own coins that must fall in the top 10% (or whatever the A/B is supposed to mean) of the grade? While I don't believe it's wise to pursue the worst-for-the-grade coins for one's collection, I am generally quite happy collecting decent, pleasing quality coins for my set(s).
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#9792078 - 02/06/17 08:53 AM Re: A problem with CAC. [Re: James_OldeTowne]
MarkVIIIMarc Offline
(S)uper Collector


Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 257
 Originally Posted By: James_OldeTowne
Why is it so important to (seemingly) everyone to own coins that must fall in the top 10% (or whatever the A/B is supposed to mean) of the grade? While I don't believe it's wise to pursue the worst-for-the-grade coins for one's collection, I am generally quite happy collecting decent, pleasing quality coins for my set(s).


In my loud opinions:

It is a security blanked against our perceived inability to judge how much we like any particular coin for ourselves.

It is some verification the grading company wasn't high on submission day.

People like certifications or validation.

Everyone wants to be "the best".

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