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AF15 CGC 9.2 Sells for all time high price @ $460K
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147 posts in this topic

Sometimes, the marketplace rewards books that haven't been pressed. I think it's great, and good for the hobby too, that a gorgeous non-pressed, original state high grade key can realize the sale price of a pressed one with a higher numerical grade.

 

 

:idea:

 

Maybe we should start up a thread whereby board members can highlight books that are clearly upgradeable, but that have not yet been worked on. This could help to slow down the undisclosed manipulation of books and also reward the owners of these untouched books at the same time. hm

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Even though CGC likes to give us the false impression that it was also common for books to be pressed in the bad old days before they started up in 2000.

 

When did CGC give you the false impression that pressing was common pre 2000?

 

Those stories came from long time dealers who said that Greg Buls and Marnin Rosenberg (who both found a Pedigree collection each) were pressing books pre CGC.

 

:makepoint:

 

My sincerest sympathies to you, Roy. :foryou:

 

I didn't realize a person as young as you could suffer from Alzheimer's at such an early age. lol

 

It's clear that you must have forgotten Borock's statement saying pressing is nothing new and has always been with us, even well before CGC opened its doors back in 2000. He presented this argument when pressing was first identified way back in 2005 or thereabouts, and it has since been repeated many times by other CGC personnel whenever the pressing issue rears its head enough to warrant a response from them. :flamed:

 

The impression being given is that stand-alone pressing was always done even well before CGC was there, so what's the big deal about it now, since there's no real difference then. Of course, stand-alone pressing was really in fact more the exception as it was generally really just the final step taken in conjunction with other restoration activities in the days prior to CGC. hm

 

The big difference is that stand-along pressing was the exception for books in the marketplace prior to CGC, whereas now it is considered to almost be the norm to either pressed or at least pre-screen a book for stand-alone pressing before it gets graded. :(

 

Most definitely not the same scenario as back in the bad old days of the Wild West before CGC came onto the scene to ensure a safer marketplace whereby potential purchasers could now buy books with full disclosure if any work had been done on them. Not so much, I guess. ;)lol

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It's clear that you must have forgotten Borock's statement saying pressing is nothing new and has always been with us, even well before CGC opened its doors back in 2000. He presented this argument when pressing was first identified way back in 2005 or thereabouts, and it has since been repeated many times by other CGC personnel whenever the pressing issue rears its head enough to warrant a response from them. :flamed:

 

The impression being given is that stand-alone pressing was always done even well before CGC was there, so what's the big deal about it now, since there's no real difference then. Of course, stand-alone pressing was really in fact more the exception as it was generally really just the final step taken in conjunction with other restoration activities in the days prior to CGC. hm

 

The big difference is that stand-along pressing was the exception for books in the marketplace prior to CGC, whereas now it is considered to almost be the norm to either pressed or at least pre-screen a book for stand-alone pressing before it gets graded. :(

 

Most definitely not the same scenario as back in the bad old days of the Wild West before CGC came onto the scene to ensure a safer marketplace whereby potential purchasers could now buy books with full disclosure if any work had been done on them. Not so much, I guess. ;)lol

 

This is true. Also, remember after Borock left CGC and he started dealing comics ? At that time he was very active on the Boards. He made many Board comments promoting pressing. The fact that he, the former head of CGC, had all his books pressed made it legitimate around here. Back then most pressed books came through Texas but Matt couldn't keep up. Soon, everybody that had access to electricity bought their own press. But back in 2000, nobody knew about pressing. And, as you stated, it was only done as the last step in a restorative process. I remember, Susan Cicconi refusing to offer a stand alone pressing service. Of course, that is no longer true.

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Okay, so would you rather have an original 9.2 with some spine ticks or a pancaked 9.4 with flattened spine ticks. I'm glad it got a '9.4 price', it deserved it. However, I am sad a nice book like this will now probably be worked on.

There's no chance this book hasn't been thoroughly worked on already.

Um....

 

The book was in the holder below until very recently. Notice the cert number is the same. I have no idea why the grade date comes up as it does, but it's incorrect. I'm not the original owner of the book, but I can tell you that it was in the slab below since 2000 and was only re-holdered within the last month or so. If the book has been worked on, it was prior to 2000. And given that the book does have some minor things that could be flattened, I doubt it has ever been pressed.

 

32274047461_f10c4feb19_o.jpg

 

What a gorgeous book. It must have been a tough decision to part with it.

 

Then again, close to half of a million dollars is also pretty gorgeous. hm

 

Congrats!

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The money is nice and useful. And I can think of some fun things to do with it. But hookers and blow - a lot of hookers and blow- still won't hold a candle to a really sweet copy of Amazing Fantasy #15.

I`m suddenly getting a "Wolf of Wall Street" image in my head that involves a slabbed AF 15 and two different uses of the word "blow".

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Even though CGC likes to give us the false impression that it was also common for books to be pressed in the bad old days before they started up in 2000.

 

When did CGC give you the false impression that pressing was common pre 2000?

 

Those stories came from long time dealers who said that Greg Buls and Marnin Rosenberg (who both found a Pedigree collection each) were pressing books pre CGC.

 

:makepoint:

 

My sincerest sympathies to you, Roy. :foryou:

 

I didn't realize a person as young as you could suffer from Alzheimer's at such an early age. lol

 

It's clear that you must have forgotten Borock's statement saying pressing is nothing new and has always been with us, even well before CGC opened its doors back in 2000. He presented this argument when pressing was first identified way back in 2005 or thereabouts, and it has since been repeated many times by other CGC personnel whenever the pressing issue rears its head enough to warrant a response from them. :flamed:

 

The impression being given is that stand-alone pressing was always done even well before CGC was there, so what's the big deal about it now, since there's no real difference then. Of course, stand-alone pressing was really in fact more the exception as it was generally really just the final step taken in conjunction with other restoration activities in the days prior to CGC. hm

 

The big difference is that stand-along pressing was the exception for books in the marketplace prior to CGC, whereas now it is considered to almost be the norm to either pressed or at least pre-screen a book for stand-alone pressing before it gets graded. :(

 

Most definitely not the same scenario as back in the bad old days of the Wild West before CGC came onto the scene to ensure a safer marketplace whereby potential purchasers could now buy books with full disclosure if any work had been done on them. Not so much, I guess. ;)lol

 

I think it's fair to say that most people did not know about 'professional pressing' pre 2000 but many did know about pressing to remove defects.

 

In fact, I'd venture to say that MOST if not ALL collectors knew about pressing because as kids I remember ironing my comics to make them flatter ( yeah, I know doh! ) even when it had nothing to do with dollar value.

 

Or placing them under a stack of encyclopedias.

 

Or packing them tightly in a box.

 

Now I'm not trying to liken the above to professional pressing but there was the desire for people to remove defects from their books even as far back in the 1970's for me.

 

But I will agree that professional pressing for profit really didn't become mainstream until after the advent of CGC.

 

And there is good reason for it. It wasn't worth the time or the effort to have a book pressed because the price increments between grades didn't really affect the books pre slab era (PSE ;) )

 

Once the market started to take off due to slabbing creating a much stronger confidence in the comic market, it became more viable to press books for sellers and collectors.

 

So in short, everyone knew that pressing out a defect could improve a book, few took that next step to actually have someone professional to do it for them but it was inevitable that with the growing value of comics it would become mainstream. It's just a natural progression (all emotions aside as to how you might personally feel about pressing).

 

I found out about professional pressing in 2004, about a year after I got into comics after being out since 1990.

 

Marnin and Buls were pressing whenever their respective pedigrees were found (Mass and Cosmic Aeroplane I think).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I`m still wondering what was driving the buyer to pay this price so soon after a 9.4 sold for about this amount.

 

If it was a couple of years since the 9.4 sale and no 9.4s had come on the market, I could get it. But so soon after the 9.4 sale, to pay up like this for a 9.2 copy which various people here seem to think is not maximizable, seems a bit odd to me. If nothing else, it`ll force any 9.4 owner to want at least $800K, otherwise they`ll feel tht they left money on the table.

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I`m still wondering what was driving the buyer to pay this price so soon after a 9.4 sold for about this amount.

 

If it was a couple of years since the 9.4 sale and no 9.4s had come on the market, I could get it. But so soon after the 9.4 sale, to pay up like this for a 9.2 copy which various people here seem to think is not maximizable, seems a bit odd to me. If nothing else, it`ll force any 9.4 owner to want at least $800K, otherwise they`ll feel tht they left money on the table.

 

Come back in 5 to 10 years both buyer's will be very happy they purchased the books at the prices they paid.

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I`m still wondering what was driving the buyer to pay this price so soon after a 9.4 sold for about this amount.

 

If it was a couple of years since the 9.4 sale and no 9.4s had come on the market, I could get it. But so soon after the 9.4 sale, to pay up like this for a 9.2 copy which various people here seem to think is not maximizable, seems a bit odd to me. If nothing else, it`ll force any 9.4 owner to want at least $800K, otherwise they`ll feel tht they left money on the table.

Even though Heritage sold that 9.4 within the last year, 9.2 or better copies rarely come up for sale. And if the people who have those books aren't looking to sell those books, it takes an eye-opening offer to even consider letting it go. Josh knows that and I'd guess the buyer knows that or eventually realized that too.

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I`m still wondering what was driving the buyer to pay this price so soon after a 9.4 sold for about this amount.

 

If it was a couple of years since the 9.4 sale and no 9.4s had come on the market, I could get it. But so soon after the 9.4 sale, to pay up like this for a 9.2 copy which various people here seem to think is not maximizable, seems a bit odd to me. If nothing else, it`ll force any 9.4 owner to want at least $800K, otherwise they`ll feel tht they left money on the table.

Even though Heritage sold that 9.4 within the last year, 9.2 or better copies rarely come up for sale. And if the people who have those books aren't looking to sell those books, it takes an eye-opening offer to even consider letting it go. Josh knows that and I'd guess the buyer knows that or eventually realized that too.

 

So true as I believe Barton has said he will take his Spideys to his grave.

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I`m still wondering what was driving the buyer to pay this price so soon after a 9.4 sold for about this amount.

 

If it was a couple of years since the 9.4 sale and no 9.4s had come on the market, I could get it. But so soon after the 9.4 sale, to pay up like this for a 9.2 copy which various people here seem to think is not maximizable, seems a bit odd to me. If nothing else, it`ll force any 9.4 owner to want at least $800K, otherwise they`ll feel tht they left money on the table.

Even though Heritage sold that 9.4 within the last year, 9.2 or better copies rarely come up for sale. And if the people who have those books aren't looking to sell those books, it takes an eye-opening offer to even consider letting it go. Josh knows that and I'd guess the buyer knows that or eventually realized that too.

 

So true as I believe Barton has said he will take his Spideys to his grave.

Picture Frames.

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I`m still wondering what was driving the buyer to pay this price so soon after a 9.4 sold for about this amount.

 

If it was a couple of years since the 9.4 sale and no 9.4s had come on the market, I could get it. But so soon after the 9.4 sale, to pay up like this for a 9.2 copy which various people here seem to think is not maximizable, seems a bit odd to me. If nothing else, it`ll force any 9.4 owner to want at least $800K, otherwise they`ll feel tht they left money on the table.

Even though Heritage sold that 9.4 within the last year, 9.2 or better copies rarely come up for sale. And if the people who have those books aren't looking to sell those books, it takes an eye-opening offer to even consider letting it go. Josh knows that and I'd guess the buyer knows that or eventually realized that too.

 

So true as I believe Barton has said he will take his Spideys to his grave.

Picture Frames.

 

:tonofbricks:

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Sometimes, the marketplace rewards books that haven't been pressed. I think it's great, and good for the hobby too, that a gorgeous non-pressed, original state high grade key can realize the sale price of a pressed one with a higher numerical grade.

 

 

And sometimes they don't reward them and seemingly almost punish them instead. :(

 

For example, take the non-pressed, original state, verified Stan Lee signed VF+ 8.5 graded copy of AF15 that was only able to fetch a price of more than $35K under the Overstreet condition guide price in the big HA Signature Auction just last summer. (shrug)

 

 

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And sometimes they don't reward them and seemingly almost punish them instead. :(

 

For example, take the non-pressed, original state, verified Stan Lee signed VF+ 8.5 graded copy of AF15 that was only able to fetch a price of more than $35K under the Overstreet condition guide price in the big HA Signature Auction just last summer. (shrug)

 

 

It cannot be considered an original state if Stan Lee signed it. I think it's a big mistake to get a high grade key signed.

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And sometimes they don't reward them and seemingly almost punish them instead. :(

 

For example, take the non-pressed, original state, verified Stan Lee signed VF+ 8.5 graded copy of AF15 that was only able to fetch a price of more than $35K under the Overstreet condition guide price in the big HA Signature Auction just last summer. (shrug)

 

 

It cannot be considered an original state if Stan Lee signed it. I think it's a big mistake to get a high grade key signed.

 

That part is actually true. (thumbs u

 

Was thinking original state more from the point of view that it had not been intentionally worked on in order to maximize its potential. Of course, Stan might have accidentally pressed out some non-color breaking creases with his elbow while he was signing the book. lol

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Sometimes, the marketplace rewards books that haven't been pressed. I think it's great, and good for the hobby too, that a gorgeous non-pressed, original state high grade key can realize the sale price of a pressed one with a higher numerical grade.

 

 

And sometimes they don't reward them and seemingly almost punish them instead. :(

 

For example, take the non-pressed, original state, verified Stan Lee signed VF+ 8.5 graded copy of AF15 that was only able to fetch a price of more than $35K under the Overstreet condition guide price in the big HA Signature Auction just last summer. (shrug)

 

 

This 8.5 book was graded by Voldy, signature placement, and poor scan. This was discussed heavily in the Amazing Fantasy 15 club. Again, the person who step up to the plate and purchased this book is going to do quite well.

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Sometimes, the marketplace rewards books that haven't been pressed. I think it's great, and good for the hobby too, that a gorgeous non-pressed, original state high grade key can realize the sale price of a pressed one with a higher numerical grade.

 

 

And sometimes they don't reward them and seemingly almost punish them instead. :(

 

For example, take the non-pressed, original state, verified Stan Lee signed VF+ 8.5 graded copy of AF15 that was only able to fetch a price of more than $35K under the Overstreet condition guide price in the big HA Signature Auction just last summer. (shrug)

 

 

This 8.5 book was graded by Voldy, signature placement, and poor scan. This was discussed heavily in the Amazing Fantasy 15 club. Again, the person who step up to the plate and purchased this book is going to do quite well.

 

I thought the biggest concern was that it was completely overgraded by the other company.

 

And yet, it got the exact same VF+ 8.5 grade when graded by CGC, albeit without any notation at all for the Stan Lee signature. Not so overgraded after all. hm

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