PGM Amazing Fantasy #15

0

Hello Everyone. This is my first post. Hope it works!

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Thanks!

Great first post! Welcome to the boards.

Book looks trimmed.

beacuse of the size of the missing piece of the back i would say 4.5. beautiful book by the way !

Looks like a 7.0 but beacuse of the size of the missing piece of the back i would say 4.5. beautiful book by the way !

I think that's a stain.

Looks like a 7.0 but beacuse of the size of the missing piece of the back i would say 4.5. beautiful book by the way !

What missing piece is that?

Book looks trimmed.

That right edge does look a little too sharp and straight.

If it isn't trimmed, 5.5. CGC hammers stains.

Gorgeous book and welcome to the Boards!

-J.

Book looks trimmed.

 

That right edge does look a little too sharp and straight.

 

If it isn't trimmed, 5.5. CGC hammers stains.

 

Gorgeous book and welcome to the Boards!

 

-J.

Cool, lots of replies already, thanks everyone! I don't think the right edge is trimmed, but the top back cover is as it is lower than the front cover top and perfectly straight / clean / sharp. The right edge is faded and has wear. But who can be sure!

While we're here, why do CGC hammer stains? It's not like water damage and the book lays perfectly flat. Seems unfair.

Also, if one edge is trimmed, and obviously so, what is to stop you from carefully tearing the edge to remove the trim. That would then be treated as an unrestored book wouldn't it? Seems drastic, but the difference in restored and unrestored price wise is huge. You could pass it off as marvel chipping.

I would never do that by the way. I own this for love, not money. Just interested in the thought.

Thanks again for the replies.

It is water damage and goes through the entire book (judging by the front cover).

Nonetheless, a great looking copy!

5.0 purple label. I agree witth the trimming assessment.

But still an awesome book!

 

Also, if one edge is trimmed, and obviously so, what is to stop you from carefully tearing the edge to remove the trim. That would then be treated as an unrestored book wouldn't it? Seems drastic, but the difference in restored and unrestored price wise is huge. You could pass it off as marvel chipping.

Realizing you are correct, it is sad because it's probably been done. It's this kind of thinking that scares me about the hobby. Trying to fool CGC is the new game. I would hope you drop any further discussion about this. We don't need to educate folks about hiding restoration. BTW, I agree that the book looks trimmed. One, look, before I saw any comments, I said to myself that right edge is trimmed. Sorry.

Nice looking copy. Hard to say about trimming from photos, but the the right edge of the pages should generally peak towards the centerfold. It doesn't look particularly narrow, and older books have inconsistent production wraps, so trimming can be hard to gauge, even in hand.So the top back may not be trimmed, even if it is lower. What would be the point, the top overhang is crimped, so what is the benefit of trimming the top back cover?

I've noticed some leniency on water stains from CGC compared to the early years, but that it goes through from back to front and isn't small makes a grade higher than 4.5 unlikely, though not impossible. If it were a cheaper book, it could easily be sold raw as a VG/F, with many agreeing.

 

Also, if one edge is trimmed, and obviously so, what is to stop you from carefully tearing the edge to remove the trim. That would then be treated as an unrestored book wouldn't it? Seems drastic, but the difference in restored and unrestored price wise is huge. You could pass it off as marvel chipping.

 

Realizing you are correct, it is sad because it's probably been done. It's this kind of thinking that scares me about the hobby. Trying to fool CGC is the new game. I would hope you drop any further discussion about this. We don't need to educate folks about hiding restoration. BTW, I agree that the book looks trimmed. One, look, before I saw any comments, I said to myself that right edge is trimmed. Sorry.

Oh, I feel like I've upset you Bob. Sorry if so, it wasn't my intention. I did say I would never do it, and money is of no interest to me, I just was intrigued by the notion and thought a discussion board would be the place to debate it. But I can see your point so, again, sorry if I upset you. Mags

The right edge appears be slightly uneven near the top, but I could be wrong. The bottom line, a book of this magnitude should be submiited.

 

Also, if one edge is trimmed, and obviously so, what is to stop you from carefully tearing the edge to remove the trim. That would then be treated as an unrestored book wouldn't it? Seems drastic, but the difference in restored and unrestored price wise is huge. You could pass it off as marvel chipping.

 

Realizing you are correct, it is sad because it's probably been done. It's this kind of thinking that scares me about the hobby. Trying to fool CGC is the new game. I would hope you drop any further discussion about this. We don't need to educate folks about hiding restoration. BTW, I agree that the book looks trimmed. One, look, before I saw any comments, I said to myself that right edge is trimmed. Sorry.

 

Oh, I feel like I've upset you Bob. Sorry if so, it wasn't my intention. I did say I would never do it, and money is of no interest to me, I just was intrigued by the notion and thought a discussion board would be the place to debate it. But I can see your point so, again, sorry if I upset you. Mags

No problem. I did note you said you would never do it so my comments were not personal, no anger . Yes, this is the place to talk about it but, IMO, it is just not the ethical think to do. Trust me, any ideas from a discussion would be implemented, somebody would try it. I just know I would be mad if I purchased a book that had been manipulated to fool CGC. I just don't feel a discussion would be proper. Thanks for the response.

 

Also, if one edge is trimmed, and obviously so, what is to stop you from carefully tearing the edge to remove the trim. That would then be treated as an unrestored book wouldn't it? Seems drastic, but the difference in restored and unrestored price wise is huge. You could pass it off as marvel chipping.

 

Realizing you are correct, it is sad because it's probably been done. It's this kind of thinking that scares me about the hobby. Trying to fool CGC is the new game. I would hope you drop any further discussion about this. We don't need to educate folks about hiding restoration. BTW, I agree that the book looks trimmed. One, look, before I saw any comments, I said to myself that right edge is trimmed. Sorry.

 

Oh, I feel like I've upset you Bob. Sorry if so, it wasn't my intention. I did say I would never do it, and money is of no interest to me, I just was intrigued by the notion and thought a discussion board would be the place to debate it. But I can see your point so, again, sorry if I upset you. Mags

 

No problem. I did note you said you would never do it so my comments were not personal, no anger . Yes, this is the place to talk about it but, IMO, it is just not the ethical think to do. Trust me, any ideas from a discussion would be implemented, somebody would try it. I just know I would be mad if I purchased a book that had been manipulated to fool CGC. I just don't feel a discussion would be proper. Thanks for the response.

Even more sad is I recently saw a AF 15 purchased on eBay that was a graded blue 1.0, but about 1/3 of the cover was cut off. The purchaser basically parted the book out, and now is selling blue NG pages on eBay from that copy. I am sure of this because the NG damaged cover only (obviously the cover to the 1.0) was sold by the same seller, who is now selling pages. Once a page or cover cover is graded as incomplete cover only NG blue, does CGC even look for restoration?

 

Also, if one edge is trimmed, and obviously so, what is to stop you from carefully tearing the edge to remove the trim. That would then be treated as an unrestored book wouldn't it? Seems drastic, but the difference in restored and unrestored price wise is huge. You could pass it off as marvel chipping.

 

Realizing you are correct, it is sad because it's probably been done. It's this kind of thinking that scares me about the hobby. Trying to fool CGC is the new game. I would hope you drop any further discussion about this. We don't need to educate folks about hiding restoration. BTW, I agree that the book looks trimmed. One, look, before I saw any comments, I said to myself that right edge is trimmed. Sorry.

 

Oh, I feel like I've upset you Bob. Sorry if so, it wasn't my intention. I did say I would never do it, and money is of no interest to me, I just was intrigued by the notion and thought a discussion board would be the place to debate it. But I can see your point so, again, sorry if I upset you. Mags

 

No problem. I did note you said you would never do it so my comments were not personal, no anger . Yes, this is the place to talk about it but, IMO, it is just not the ethical think to do. Trust me, any ideas from a discussion would be implemented, somebody would try it. I just know I would be mad if I purchased a book that had been manipulated to fool CGC. I just don't feel a discussion would be proper. Thanks for the response.

 

Even more sad is I recently saw a AF 15 purchased on eBay that was a graded blue 1.0, but about 1/3 of the cover was cut off. The purchaser basically parted the book out, and now is selling blue NG pages on eBay from that copy. I am sure of this because the NG damaged cover only (obviously the cover to the 1.0) was sold by the same seller, who is now selling pages. Once a page or cover cover is graded as incomplete cover only NG blue, does CGC even look for restoration?

I saw that. Don't like it. Unfortunately, since CGC is willing to encapsulate a single page, we are going to see more of this. Assuming CGC did not envision this scenario I hope they can reconsider. Tearing up the book for more profit should not be encouraged.

 

Also, if one edge is trimmed, and obviously so, what is to stop you from carefully tearing the edge to remove the trim. That would then be treated as an unrestored book wouldn't it? Seems drastic, but the difference in restored and unrestored price wise is huge. You could pass it off as marvel chipping.

 

Realizing you are correct, it is sad because it's probably been done. It's this kind of thinking that scares me about the hobby. Trying to fool CGC is the new game. I would hope you drop any further discussion about this. We don't need to educate folks about hiding restoration. BTW, I agree that the book looks trimmed. One, look, before I saw any comments, I said to myself that right edge is trimmed. Sorry.

 

Oh, I feel like I've upset you Bob. Sorry if so, it wasn't my intention. I did say I would never do it, and money is of no interest to me, I just was intrigued by the notion and thought a discussion board would be the place to debate it. But I can see your point so, again, sorry if I upset you. Mags

 

No problem. I did note you said you would never do it so my comments were not personal, no anger . Yes, this is the place to talk about it but, IMO, it is just not the ethical think to do. Trust me, any ideas from a discussion would be implemented, somebody would try it. I just know I would be mad if I purchased a book that had been manipulated to fool CGC. I just don't feel a discussion would be proper. Thanks for the response.

 

Even more sad is I recently saw a AF 15 purchased on eBay that was a graded blue 1.0, but about 1/3 of the cover was cut off. The purchaser basically parted the book out, and now is selling blue NG pages on eBay from that copy. I am sure of this because the NG damaged cover only (obviously the cover to the 1.0) was sold by the same seller, who is now selling pages. Once a page or cover cover is graded as incomplete cover only NG blue, does CGC even look for restoration?

 

I saw that. Don't like it. Unfortunately, since CGC is willing to encapsulate a single page, we are going to see more of this. Assuming CGC did not envision this scenario I hope they can reconsider. Tearing up the book for more profit should not be encouraged.

Bob, I agree with you personally. I would no more deface a comic than I would cut a finger off. Both are too precious to me. But a key point, if I may play Devils Advocate, is that it's my comic and the decision as to what happens to it is mine alone. Now, let's say the person who sold the 1.0 graded comic did so to feed their kids. The buyer was also on his uppers and saw a chance to make some money. The profit he made paid his rent for a month. All the page buyers were given a rare opportunity to own a page of AF15. It's all they could afford. So everyone ends up happy and the world has just one whole, visually poor AF15 comic less than it did beforehand. Is that really such a disaster when there are so many copies in existence? And, with all due respect, what does it have to do with anyone but those who owned or now own a part of it?

 

Also, if one edge is trimmed, and obviously so, what is to stop you from carefully tearing the edge to remove the trim. That would then be treated as an unrestored book wouldn't it? Seems drastic, but the difference in restored and unrestored price wise is huge. You could pass it off as marvel chipping.

 

Realizing you are correct, it is sad because it's probably been done. It's this kind of thinking that scares me about the hobby. Trying to fool CGC is the new game. I would hope you drop any further discussion about this. We don't need to educate folks about hiding restoration. BTW, I agree that the book looks trimmed. One, look, before I saw any comments, I said to myself that right edge is trimmed. Sorry.

 

Oh, I feel like I've upset you Bob. Sorry if so, it wasn't my intention. I did say I would never do it, and money is of no interest to me, I just was intrigued by the notion and thought a discussion board would be the place to debate it. But I can see your point so, again, sorry if I upset you. Mags

 

No problem. I did note you said you would never do it so my comments were not personal, no anger . Yes, this is the place to talk about it but, IMO, it is just not the ethical think to do. Trust me, any ideas from a discussion would be implemented, somebody would try it. I just know I would be mad if I purchased a book that had been manipulated to fool CGC. I just don't feel a discussion would be proper. Thanks for the response.

 

Even more sad is I recently saw a AF 15 purchased on eBay that was a graded blue 1.0, but about 1/3 of the cover was cut off. The purchaser basically parted the book out, and now is selling blue NG pages on eBay from that copy. I am sure of this because the NG damaged cover only (obviously the cover to the 1.0) was sold by the same seller, who is now selling pages. Once a page or cover cover is graded as incomplete cover only NG blue, does CGC even look for restoration?

 

I saw that. Don't like it. Unfortunately, since CGC is willing to encapsulate a single page, we are going to see more of this. Assuming CGC did not envision this scenario I hope they can reconsider. Tearing up the book for more profit should not be encouraged.

 

Bob, I agree with you personally. I would no more deface a comic than I would cut a finger off. Both are too precious to me. But a key point, if I may play Devils Advocate, is that it's my comic and the decision as to what happens to it is mine alone. Now, let's say the person who sold the 1.0 graded comic did so to feed their kids. The buyer was also on his uppers and saw a chance to make some money. The profit he made paid his rent for a month. All the page buyers were given a rare opportunity to own a page of AF15. It's all they could afford. So everyone ends up happy and the world has just one whole, visually poor AF15 comic less than it did beforehand. Is that really such a disaster when there are so many copies in existence? And, with all due respect, what does it have to do with anyone but those who owned or now own a part of it?

I don't think it has anything to do with anyone but the buyer/seller but Bob is an advocate for preserving the hobby's integrity. I think most of us on the boards feel the exact same way. When it gets to a point where you cannot trust anyone enough to buy a book, things have gone too far.