Moderns that are heating up on ebay!

70 70

k, so con variant with 3 types, gotcha

 

You don't consider con exclusives to be real variants either ?

 

-J.

 

yes, majority of them are legit. That was a retraction from my error of it being a store variant, which definitely are NOT real.

Con exclusives do work exactly like store exclusives though. Except instead of a specific store or group of stores pooling money, the organizers or owners of the convention commission the books and they distribute them themselves (just like retailers).

-J.

Con exclusives do work exactly like store exclusives though. Except instead of a specific store or group of stores pooling money, the organizers or owners of the convention commission the books and they distribute them themselves (just like retailers).

-J.

Yes, they are very similar, but there is more legitimacy to most con variants. Having an SDCC or NYCC exclusive variant, are things that the publishers are pursuing, not the other way around (like unsolicited store variants that owners produce).

Vancouver FanExpo is borderline, but it is at least tacitly connected to the same company that does the real Fan Expo in Toronto which is the 3rd biggest con in North America.

Convention variants are definitely moving more and more towards the store level of illegitimacy, especially when every tiny little con is doing them. Having the color/b&W/virgin is again pushing it more towards the store garbage imo, as its literally the same package.

But my retraction was for labeling it a store variant when it was a con. Standalone, single cover, big name con variants, definitely seem to cross the threshold of legitimacy. I wouldnt touch the FanExpo variants myself, but I at least had to acknowledge they were con not store.

Con exclusives do work exactly like store exclusives though. Except instead of a specific store or group of stores pooling money, the organizers or owners of the convention commission the books and they distribute them themselves (just like retailers).

-J.

 

Yes, they are very similar, but there is more legitimacy to most con variants. Having an SDCC or NYCC exclusive variant, are things that the publishers are pursuing, not the other way around (like unsolicited store variants that owners produce).

 

Vancouver FanExpo is borderline, but it is at least tacitly connected to the same company that does the real Fan Expo in Toronto which is the 3rd biggest con in North America.

 

Convention variants are definitely moving more and more towards the store level of illegitimacy, especially when every tiny little con is doing them. Having the color/b&W/virgin is again pushing it more towards the store garbage imo, as its literally the same package.

 

But my retraction was for labeling it a store variant when it was a con. Standalone, single cover, big name con variants, definitely seem to cross the threshold of legitimacy. I wouldnt touch the FanExpo variants myself, but I at least had to acknowledge they were con not store.

I agree with a lot of this.

Some of the best selling comic exclusives on the secondary market are also repackaged art (ie "sketch", "partial sketch", foil versions etc.). Few con exclusives retain any real value as well, but there are a couple that have and got pretty pricey , even though they (like store exclusives) are not part of a title's core run either.

-J.

There's now a BIN for about the price of the high auction, so if they want it, it's there. If multiples bid it up past that BIN, it will become fishy.

Good point

It it sits too long on the counter, it will become fishy.

So if there are a lot of the variant available, like at bigger cons, then it's a "real" variant. Got it...

where do people come up with this stuff?

So if there are a lot of the variant available, like at bigger cons, then it's a "real" variant. Got it...

where do people come up with this stuff?

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant.

Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate.

It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something.

So if there are a lot of the variant available, like at bigger cons, then it's a "real" variant. Got it...

where do people come up with this stuff?

 

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant.

 

Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate.

 

It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something.

But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something.....

-J.

So if there are a lot of the variant available, like at bigger cons, then it's a "real" variant. Got it...

where do people come up with this stuff?

 

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant.

 

Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate.

 

It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something.

 

But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something.....

 

-J.

If you're talking Big 2, they are typically commissioned and / or approved by the big cheese.

If you're talking a Myrat Michaels Dead Pooh, then yes. That's a "home brew".

 

But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something.....

 

-J.

I already agreed with you there is a lot of overlap, and the small cons are essentially identical. It's a question of legitimacy which ultimately the market determines.

Single cover large cons, where essentially the publishers are the ones producing it, are the most legitimate. Boise Con with 7 cover variants sponsored by Joe's Comics not so legitimate.

So if there are a lot of the variant available, like at bigger cons, then it's a "real" variant. Got it...

where do people come up with this stuff?

 

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant.

 

Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate.

 

It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something.

 

But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something.....

 

-J.

 

If you're talking Big 2, they are typically commissioned and / or approved by the big cheese.

If you're talking a Myrat Michaels Dead Pooh, then yes. That's a "home brew".

I'm just trying to figure out if CBT is essentially saying that , if it didn't appear on a Diamond retailer order sheet, it's not a "real variant". Not saying that is an entirely invalid opinion , I know a lot of guys who feel that way. If that is what he's saying though , then con exclusives are out, retailer exclusives are out. What about RRP books though ? I guess since those are technically also distributed by Diamond via the publishers directly (and not commissioned by some outside shop, convention or other agency) as a "thanks for coming" surprise freebie, those would still count.

Just musing...

-J.

So if there are a lot of the variant available, like at bigger cons, then it's a "real" variant. Got it...

where do people come up with this stuff?

 

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant.

 

Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate.

 

It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something.

 

But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something.....

 

-J.

 

If you're talking Big 2, they are typically commissioned and / or approved by the big cheese.

If you're talking a Myrat Michaels Dead Pooh, then yes. That's a "home brew".

 

I'm just trying to figure out if CBT is essentially saying that , if it didn't appear on a Diamond retailer order sheet, it's not a "real variant". Not saying that is an entirely invalid opinion , I know a lot of guys who feel that way. If that is what he's saying though , then con exclusives are out, retailer exclusives are out. What about RRP books though ? I guess since those are technically also distributed by Diamond via the publishers directly (and not commissioned by some outside shop, convention or other agency) as a "thanks for coming" surprise freebie, those would still count.

 

Just musing...

 

-J.

At one point, ComicXposure had variants listed in the Diamond Catalog and distributed through Diamond, (do not remember which book though) So, since it did go through Diamond, and is was distributed by Diamond, but was also a store variant, would this count as a real variant or not?

Also, what about the PX (Preview Exclusive variants) do they count as real variants or not?

Just curious?

So if there are a lot of the variant available, like at bigger cons, then it's a "real" variant. Got it...

where do people come up with this stuff?

 

Joe's Schmoe's super-fantastic ultra-rare virgin-led-foil variant, only 50 copies printed, is still just Joe Schmoe's variant.

 

Big Con variants that the publishers themselves produce, and dont have 16 cover versions, are far more legitimate.

 

It's not that complicated a concept. If you made the variant it's worthless, if Marvel made it, its worth something.

 

But still, the convention organizers are the ones who commission the variants from the publisher (regardless of the name or size of the convention ) in the identical fashion that retailers do, often in similar quantities and using re-purposed art or alternate versions of the same art as well. So really it is a distinction without a difference. Unless I'm missing something.....

 

-J.

 

If you're talking Big 2, they are typically commissioned and / or approved by the big cheese.

If you're talking a Myrat Michaels Dead Pooh, then yes. That's a "home brew".

 

I'm just trying to figure out if CBT is essentially saying that , if it didn't appear on a Diamond retailer order sheet, it's not a "real variant". Not saying that is an entirely invalid opinion , I know a lot of guys who feel that way. If that is what he's saying though , then con exclusives are out, retailer exclusives are out. What about RRP books though ? I guess since those are technically also distributed by Diamond via the publishers directly (and not commissioned by some outside shop, convention or other agency) as a "thanks for coming" surprise freebie, those would still count.

 

Just musing...

 

-J.

 

At one point, ComicXposure had variants listed in the Diamond Catalog and distributed through Diamond, (do not remember which book though) So, since it did go through Diamond, and is was distributed by Diamond, but was also a store variant, would this count as a real variant or not?

 

Also, what about the PX (Preview Exclusive variants) do they count as real variants or not?

 

Just curious?

I think the logic would be those aren't real variants because they are store variants.

I think the criteria is, distributed by Diamond and via the publishers directly (ie, NOT commissioned by an outside agency, shop or con).

-J.

Seems like the abundance of the varieties of various variants basically makes the collector who "wants it all" decide if they really want it all.

I'm not sure that the No True Scotsman logical fallacy applies to what is a "true variant", but we're getting pretty close.

I think it's more likely that a number of collectors are settling/concluding that they are "complete" if they have books which were order-able through Diamond.

It would be less fun and more headache to say that your decades-long hobby is no longer enjoyable because you already have 14 variants for the same comic, but you just can't find the Nome Alaska Comics-And-More-Unnecessary-Cold-Stuff retailer variant which was mostly lost to an ice road trucking shipping accident when you are a collector who lives in Europe.

Seems like the abundance of the varieties of various variants basically makes the collector who "wants it all" decide if they really want it all.

 

I'm not sure that the No True Scotsman logical fallacy applies to what is a "true variant", but we're getting pretty close.

 

I think it's more likely that a number of collectors are settling/concluding that they are "complete" if they have books which were order-able through Diamond.

 

It would be less fun and more headache to say that your decades-long hobby is no longer enjoyable because you already have 14 variants for the same comic, but you just can't find the Nome Alaska Comics-And-More-Unnecessary-Cold-Stuff retailer variant which was mostly lost to an ice road trucking shipping accident when you are a collector who lives in Europe.

I've been hunting for that NACAMUCS variant, I hadn't heard about the accident.

 

I'm just trying to figure out if CBT is essentially saying that , if it didn't appear on a Diamond retailer order sheet, it's not a "real variant". Not saying that is an entirely invalid opinion , I know a lot of guys who feel that way. If that is what he's saying though , then con exclusives are out, retailer exclusives are out. What about RRP books though ? I guess since those are technically also distributed by Diamond via the publishers directly (and not commissioned by some outside shop, convention or other agency) as a "thanks for coming" surprise freebie, those would still count.

 

Just musing...

 

-J.

It's tough to say, and I appreciate you pushing me to be precise, its a good discussion. Dynamic Forces is a good older example that has been hotly debated over the years.

I think we can agree the "legit" list must include anything distributed by Diamond.

Con exclusives vs Retailer exclusives is a really good question that I dont think can have a hard and fast answer, and will always involve some element of personal opinion.

I think anything made a by a retailer or group of retailers is its own category, I refer to as "store variants", and lack legitmacy.

Many con exclusives are produced in the same manner with the same mechanisms via the publisher. From a literalism stand point, they are as J says the same.

If it's the LONE variant for the book in question, or the convention is a very big and famous one, those factors tend to put it, in my mind, in a category above the retailer "store" books. But, it definitely isnt the same as straight from the publisher variants.

The variants like that Vancouver Fan Expo book are clearly somewhere in between the two (below a big con or solo variant, above some no name store variant).

I collect some Dynamite and IDW series from the past which have a ton of alternate covers. There are also Dynamic Forces variants, which I struggle to decide if I need to have them or not. They are the lowest print runs, but essentially just chromium versions of the regular covers.

Seems like the abundance of the varieties of various variants basically makes the collector who "wants it all" decide if they really want it all.

 

I'm not sure that the No True Scotsman logical fallacy applies to what is a "true variant", but we're getting pretty close.

 

I think it's more likely that a number of collectors are settling/concluding that they are "complete" if they have books which were order-able through Diamond.

 

It would be less fun and more headache to say that your decades-long hobby is no longer enjoyable because you already have 14 variants for the same comic, but you just can't find the Nome Alaska Comics-And-More-Unnecessary-Cold-Stuff retailer variant which was mostly lost to an ice road trucking shipping accident when you are a collector who lives in Europe.

I think a majority of collectors who never see or don't ever know about store exclusives since they are mainly sold directly from a store website or eBay.

 

I'm just trying to figure out if CBT is essentially saying that , if it didn't appear on a Diamond retailer order sheet, it's not a "real variant". Not saying that is an entirely invalid opinion , I know a lot of guys who feel that way. If that is what he's saying though , then con exclusives are out, retailer exclusives are out. What about RRP books though ? I guess since those are technically also distributed by Diamond via the publishers directly (and not commissioned by some outside shop, convention or other agency) as a "thanks for coming" surprise freebie, those would still count.

 

Just musing...

 

-J.

 

It's tough to say, and I appreciate you pushing me to be precise, its a good discussion. Dynamic Forces is a good older example that has been hotly debated over the years.

 

I think we can agree the "legit" list must include anything distributed by Diamond.

 

Con exclusives vs Retailer exclusives is a really good question that I dont think can have a hard and fast answer, and will always involve some element of personal opinion.

 

I think anything made a by a retailer or group of retailers is its own category, I refer to as "store variants", and lack legitmacy.

 

Many con exclusives are produced in the same manner with the same mechanisms via the publisher. From a literalism stand point, they are as J says the same.

 

If it's the LONE variant for the book in question, or the convention is a very big and famous one, those factors tend to put it, in my mind, in a category above the retailer "store" books. But, it definitely isnt the same as straight from the publisher variants.

 

The variants like that Vancouver Fan Expo book are clearly somewhere in between the two (below a big con or solo variant, above some no name store variant).

As a rule of thumb I have always broken the argument down as such:

1. If it is a ratio cover, an alternative cover (B Cover), or otherwise distributed to stores on certain criteria (order 110% of X book to qualify for this cover) than it is a variant

2. If it is not available to all stores that qualify (by ordering, ratio, percentage of order, et al.), not shipped out by Diamond, and exclusive to just a shop or con and has a shop or cons logo or name, then it is an Exclusive.

I think there is a blurring in the term variant that has gone on to include everything that is not a cover A.

Just my opinion. I still buy covers that I like, and don't care if it is an exclusive or variant if the art or artist is something i am interested in.

 

I think a majority of collectors who never see or don't ever know about store exclusives since they are mainly sold directly from a store website or eBay.

Does overstreet list con variants? I assume they dont do store variants.