Newsstand Versions

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looks like a Divad 9.8.

Uh, what would you know except for the the big 9.8 in the corner . . .

If modern newsstands is your game this set is prolly worth it:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOLVERINE-OLD-MAN-LOGAN-LOT-66-67-70-NM-NM-LOT-OF-3-HIGH-GRADE-BOOKS-/332030716618?hash=item4d4e92aaca:g:VbwAAOSw44BYKIB4

okay, I'm just returning to comics after a 22 year lull.  In my liquidating of my collection, I've only just become familiar with things like newsstand editions, direct editions, variants and errors, and the effect each trait has on value.  Questions for the knowledgeable:  Why are there newsstand and direct editions at all as opposed to a plain release?  What is their purpose in the business of comic book sales?  What percentage are direct and newsstand, and why is the value of a volume changed by this?  Any answers are appreciated, and feel free to mock my ignorance and explain anything else having to do with values and errors/variants that I did not ask - that would be equally appreciated.

34 minutes ago, CleverParasite said:

okay, I'm just returning to comics after a 22 year lull.  In my liquidating of my collection, I've only just become familiar with things like newsstand editions, direct editions, variants and errors, and the effect each trait has on value.  Questions for the knowledgeable:  Why are there newsstand and direct editions at all as opposed to a plain release?  What is their purpose in the business of comic book sales?  What percentage are direct and newsstand, and why is the value of a volume changed by this?  Any answers are appreciated, and feel free to mock my ignorance and explain anything else having to do with values and errors/variants that I did not ask - that would be equally appreciated.

I'm not too knowledgeable myself, there is a semi accurate diagram of the history of when Newsstand was in decline and direct editions were spiking upward.

22 years ago, you might be able to picture it yourself  

Basically most Newsstand's or the one's with plain barcode have been around a while, available in LCS, 7 eleven, Grocery Stores etc., as I understand it then Direct Editions came about and were mostly available at the LCS, while the Newsstands were still available everywhere else. Some with different prices, which could have been more or less and those, I believe, are the one's that CGC recognizes on the label. As the Newsstands seemed less and less available at 7-11, grocery stores etc, it is believed by some that these were scarcer, and because they were in these kinds of locations, the thought is that they were taken care of less and thusly scarcer in High Grade.

That's all I got  if someone else wants to take the time to fine tune this theory, it is appreciated....  

3 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm not too knowledgeable myself, there is a semi accurate diagram of the history of when Newsstand was in decline and direct editions were spiking upward.

22 years ago, you might be able to picture it yourself  

Slightly more info...

All comics were newsstands before there was such a thing as a "comic book store"... so.. 1938 to the mid-1970s... every comic was a newsstand.  If they didn't sell, then they were returned for credit and (supposedly) destroyed.  There is detailed history (and debate) online for when direct editions started, but the basic idea was that there was a demand for comics "for comics sake" rather than mixing comics with other magazines and newspapers in that section of a grocery store or a gas station.  Comic shops could order "their own" books, without having that "newsprint middleman"... but the "returnable" aspect needed to be handled.  Direct edition books weren't returnable, but the newsstand editions were.  If there was no way to tell them apart, then people could "game the system" and buy non-returnable direct editions at a discount, then return them through the newsstand system for credit.  That got shut down quickly.  So, beginning late-1970s, the newsstand editions had a barcode and the direct editions either had a barcode-with-a-slash-through-it or no barcode or a barcode-box-with-art-instead.

The general idea is that newsstands went to those places that comics weren't really appreciated, and if they didn't sell, they got returned/destroyed/whatever.  The other half of the general idea is that direct editions went to comic shops, for collectors, who collected them, and to dealers who sold them (or stocked them) somewhat carefully to sell later, since they weren't returnable.

Decades later, the belief is that the newsstand books had a "harder life"... if they survived at all... so the high grade newsstands are less likely, and as the newsstand sales fell while comic shop sales increased, there's a "crossover point" where newsstands became second place to direct editions, even though it was newsstands #1 from 1938 to ... maybe the mid-1980s.

It's tempting to just say "it's a newsstand, so it's the better option" for all the newsstand books that also exist as direct editions, but that's unlikely to be true for the late 1970s or early 1980s.  Newsstands were still dominating until the mid-1980s.

Jump forward to 2018 and there are no newsstands for Marvel or DC.  So, somewhere after the mid-1980s to the end of the newsstands, there are Marvel and DC books that are going to be much harder to find as newsstands, even harder to find as high grade newsstands, and there are going to be lots of collectors who paid good money at their local comic shops for direct editions that they carefully bagged and boarded who realize it has become the "less wanted" edition.  So, there's understandable opposition to newsstands being special.  But, I think the market will decide this one as we get further from the days when newsstands were normal.  Now that newsstands are (basically) gone... they'll be easier to "look back" and evaluate.

7 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm not too knowledgeable myself, there is a semi accurate diagram of the history of when Newsstand was in decline and direct editions were spiking upward.

22 years ago, you might be able to picture it yourself  

Basically most Newsstand's or the one's with plain barcode have been around a while, available in LCS, 7 eleven, Grocery Stores etc., as I understand it then Direct Editions came about and were mostly available at the LCS, while the Newsstands were still available everywhere else. Some with different prices, which could have been more or less and those, I believe, are the one's that CGC recognizes on the label. As the Newsstands seemed less and less available at 7-11, grocery stores etc, it is believed by some that these were scarcer, and because they were in these kinds of locations, the thought is that they were taken care of less and thusly scarcer in High Grade.

That's all I got  if someone else wants to take the time to fine tune this theory, it is appreciated....  

This seems pretty right.

I don't think there's anything better about a newsstand or a direct in any kind of obvious way. 

BUT, here's SOME subjective reasons SOME newsstand copies are SOMETIMES bought/sold for more than their direct counterparts.

1.  I don't think there's a lot of official knowledge publication knowledge out there about ratios, but I think MOST people can see that pretty clearly, people have gotten their comics less and less from newsstands vs comic book stores (or direct ordering) over time.  It would follow then that over time there were less and less (no one knows the exact ratio) newsstand copies printed compared to direct copies, especially as we got into the 2000's.

2.  I think it makes sense that IN GENERAL, a copy purchased from a comic book store would be more likely to have been kept in good shape at the point of purchase than a copy purchased a newsstand or 7-11 or grocery store.  I hope the reasons are somewhat evident.

3.  For the same reason as #2, the average direct copy is more likely to have been stored in a somewhat protected environment over time.

4.  We are at a point in time where the consumer/collector has access to nearly any thing they want via the internet, and we are at a point in our culture where we are encouraged to have very specific and eclectic tastes.  This has led to some collectors wanting EVERY issue of a 'run' or 'type' or 'cover' or 'series' or 'character' or whatever.

5.  Nostalgia.  Some people like the idea of having/reading newsstand copies because it reminds them of their youth.

So the perceived rarities and perceived rarities in high grade plus increased specific demand for rarities has resulted in a premium in some cases.  It's cooler to be a nerd now, do show how hard you ride for Dr. Strange, or Lobo, or Spawn, or .....Darkhawk.  Its cool (to some) to prove online or in person in a community of peers you've found that you're the biggest fan of 'x'.  One way to 'prove' that is to show how deep your specific collection is. 

Like having those weird old Star Wars toys, "Oh you think YOU'RE a big fan of Star Wars??  Well I have the Purple Helmet Boba Fett error which is made from platinum", but on a somewhat cheaper less esoteric scale.

@revat  I like how well our posts agree despite us writing them separately in response to a prior post. 

I’m a huge newsstand junky myself, mostly out of nostalgia.

My main focus for the last 1-2 years has been late Marvel newsstand books, 2011-13. In my experience I will see some pop up on eBay at a 1:50 news/direct ratio and others at a 1:100 or less. I don’t think the distribution was consistent.

For instance, a hot seller, new avengers 8 9 10, 1st Black Order/1st Thane; I’ve watched hundreds if not a thousand of these roll through eBay and seen newsstands of:

3 #8’s (none better than 9.2) 

4 #9’s, (at least 2 at 9.4)

0 #10’s 

None of these had newsstand specified in title or description. A few were VG/F at best.

im still looking for a New Avengers (2013) #10 newsstand...

There's a "bias built-in" for checking online auctions for newsstands because online auctions are high volumes from professional comic retailers/resellers, so the direct editions are going to be in their inventory most often because that's what they ordered.  There may be a much higher ratio for newsstands "in the world" but there aren't nearly as many people who purchased newsstands for resale in volume to sell online years later.  It's tempting (for me) to think about the newsstands as "about as scarce as they are on e-bay", but the reality is that regular people do sell on e-bay, but not nearly as often as the pros who originally ordered (and primarily deal in) direct editions.

Going with the logic that dealers have the biggest presence selling large quantities of direct edition back issues, it further proves the scarcity of the newsstand books. If you can’t find it on eBay where else shall you look?

If individuals who purchased new are the majority owners of these and simply aren’t selling them in large quantities, I must conclude there is likely no large stack of them waiting to be put up for sale, and the survivors’ conditions are suspect. 

Speaking to marvels 2011-13: Regardless of whatever ratio of newsstand/direct there may be, (I think that ratio is different across different titles) in every case the direct editions are the proverbial  haystack.

21 minutes ago, Joosh said:

 

Going with the logic that dealers have the biggest presence selling large quantities of direct edition back issues, it further proves the scarcity of the newsstand books. If you can’t find it on eBay where else shall you look?

If individuals who purchased new are the majority owners of these and simply aren’t selling them in large quantities, I must conclude there is likely no large stack of them waiting to be put up for sale, and the survivors’ conditions are suspect. 

Speaking to marvels 2011-13: Regardless of whatever ratio of newsstand/direct there may be, (I think that ratio is different across different titles) in every case the direct editions are the proverbial  haystack.

it proves the scarcity of newsstand books ON THE MARKET, which is not the same thing as the scarcity of total books.  But it is probably close enough for the purpose saying generally that they're quite rare to find for sale.  But for the purpose of trying to establish some type of purported ratio, it makes it even more difficult to do so.  I don't think I'm arguing with you, just trying to provide another reason why people shouldn't really guess or attribute any type of ratio to the rarity of newsstands vs directs, other than to say something along the effect of 'likely quite rare relatively'.  

3 hours ago, Joosh said:

I’m a huge newsstand junky myself, mostly out of nostalgia.

My main focus for the last 1-2 years has been late Marvel newsstand books, 2011-13. In my experience I will see some pop up on eBay at a 1:50 news/direct ratio and others at a 1:100 or less. I don’t think the distribution was consistent.

For instance, a hot seller, new avengers 8 9 10, 1st Black Order/1st Thane; I’ve watched hundreds if not a thousand of these roll through eBay and seen newsstands of:

3 #8’s (none better than 9.2) 

4 #9’s, (at least 2 at 9.4)

0 #10’s 

None of these had newsstand specified in title or description. A few were VG/F at best.

im still looking for a New Avengers (2013) #10 newsstand...

I filled many of my later (2005-2011) Batman newsstands through one dealer who got them all from a private collector. Also grabbed a few Marvels like the Old Man Logan arc and the Lady Bullseye run in Daredevil from him. His source had bought stockpiled multiple copies from a local pharmacy and just squirreled them away. He had a massive collection (although I doubt it was a newsstand-focus, I think he was just an older guy and that was his best outlet in a rural area). My guess is the inconsistency in what's available is partly due to the likelihood that many of these newsstand issues are only filtering through from a few private owners who either bought randomly or stockpiled, like this guy. 

1 hour ago, Martin Sinescu said:

I filled many of my later (2005-2011) Batman newsstands through one dealer who got them all from a private collector. Also grabbed a few Marvels like the Old Man Logan arc and the Lady Bullseye run in Daredevil from him. His source had bought stockpiled multiple copies from a local pharmacy and just squirreled them away. He had a massive collection (although I doubt it was a newsstand-focus, I think he was just an older guy and that was his best outlet in a rural area). My guess is the inconsistency in what's available is partly due to the likelihood that many of these newsstand issues are only filtering through from a few private owners who either bought randomly or stockpiled, like this guy. 

Are you referring to the Doc collection?

wow, many thanks for all the information concerning my original question.  now i have a metaphorical rod to cast into the spokes of everyones  bike (throwing you for a loop.   and maybe a broken arm).  see, i never purchased any comics at newsstands or other general book stores, because i was lucky enough to live in a neighborhood as a child that has a comic book store in walking distance that was run by twin brothers.  Every volume i own except three or four strays was purchased at that shop.  So, if dedicated comic shops are given direct editions when they place orders, how is it that about 30% of my collection bears the signs of newsstand editions?  the only potential answer i can think of that is logical is that various comic publishers, at least in the early 90s when my interest was at its peak, comic publisher employees in charge of filling and shipping orders gave not a damn about paying attention  to both the type of books they packed for shipping, and where the direct/newsstand versions were supposed to go.

2 hours ago, Joosh said:

Are you referring to the Doc collection?

Dat's da one 

1 hour ago, Martin Sinescu said:

Dat's da one 

https://rarecomics.wordpress.com/2016/08/31/newsstand-variants-3-99-newsstand-editions-and-the-doc-collection/

3 hours ago, CleverParasite said:

wow, many thanks for all the information concerning my original question.  now i have a metaphorical rod to cast into the spokes of everyones  bike (throwing you for a loop.   and maybe a broken arm).  see, i never purchased any comics at newsstands or other general book stores, because i was lucky enough to live in a neighborhood as a child that has a comic book store in walking distance that was run by twin brothers.  Every volume i own except three or four strays was purchased at that shop.  So, if dedicated comic shops are given direct editions when they place orders, how is it that about 30% of my collection bears the signs of newsstand editions?  the only potential answer i can think of that is logical is that various comic publishers, at least in the early 90s when my interest was at its peak, comic publisher employees in charge of filling and shipping orders gave not a damn about paying attention  to both the type of books they packed for shipping, and where the direct/newsstand versions were supposed to go.

There are reasons why you could have bought Newsstand editions from your LCS, but first show us some pictures of some issues you think "bear the signs of newsstand editions" from your collection.

14 minutes ago, ComicCollectorMatt said:

https://rarecomics.wordpress.com/2016/08/31/newsstand-variants-3-99-newsstand-editions-and-the-doc-collection/

Could everybody please stop linking to that terrible blog?

2 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

Could everybody please stop linking to that terrible blog?

That one post in particular or just the site in general? Just curious as I don't want to waste precious weekend minutes if it'a all misinformation in that article.

2 hours ago, ComicCollectorMatt said:

https://rarecomics.wordpress.com/2016/08/31/newsstand-variants-3-99-newsstand-editions-and-the-doc-collection/

Ugh. That blog is uniformly filled with errors, misinformation, poor research, poor conclusions, and its owner, a "Benjamin Nobel", is averse to correction in a very hostile way.

It's worse than no information. With no information, people are blank slates. With bad information, that bad information must be wiped clean before good information can take its place.