Infinite Bronze War Thread

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Kubert will always be the Bronze Age war artist for me. The Unknown Soldier and Sgt. Rock books were the last of that great DC Big 5 War era. As a kid in the late 70s, Kubert's war covers were the first I had seen on the newsstand and the memory of the impression his artwork had on me is something that remains.

Kubert was the defining Bronze Age war artist for my generation...

What happened to that sweet G.I. Combat book someone posted?

Photo bucket is a mess, try this again.

Great book!

Kubert will always be the Bronze Age war artist for me. The Unknown Soldier and Sgt. Rock books were the last of that great DC Big 5 War era. As a kid in the late 70s, Kubert's war covers were the first I had seen on the newsstand and the memory of the impression his artwork had on me is something that remains.

 

Kubert was the defining Bronze Age war artist for my generation...

I agree, he was the best. Although I didn't get to see his work on newsstands I became aware of his work while looking through comic bins at shows. I've always loved this "last" cover on Sgt Rock 422 as it alludes to Rock's first experience reaching through water toward his brother in his origin story.

Photo bucket is a mess, try this again.

 

I love experimenting martial arts in a war comic! To top it off, this is a great black cover.

I can't think of any others like this one - definitely a Bronze War exclusive!

Great pick-up!

Kubert will always be the Bronze Age war artist for me. The Unknown Soldier and Sgt. Rock books were the last of that great DC Big 5 War era. As a kid in the late 70s, Kubert's war covers were the first I had seen on the newsstand and the memory of the impression his artwork had on me is something that remains.

 

Kubert was the defining Bronze Age war artist for my generation...

 

I agree, he was the best. Although I didn't get to see his work on newsstands I became aware of his work while looking through comic bins at shows. I've always loved this "last" cover on Sgt Rock 422 as it alludes to Rock's first experience reaching through water toward his brother in his origin story.

Kubert's covers to SSWS 151, Unknown Soldier 268, and Sgt. Rock 422 were the defining books for my "Bronze Age War" comic collecting experience. But there are so many other great Kubert BA covers. I remember seeing this on the newsstand and was deeply saddened to see the end of the Rock's series. Kept telling myself that the Rock would come back one day.

So what is this all about?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XTC-034-Sgt-Rock-Is-Going-To-Help-Me-034-7-034-Poster-Sleeve-1981-EX-VS-384-/291935639440?hash=item43f8b85790%3Ag%3A7AAAAOSwXeJYD2id&nma=true&si=MWCRhdvf4M7KTm6zum%252BQIQzvOBc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

It's an old XTC song.

They have a few songs you may have heard. "Making Plans for Nigel," (which was covered by Primus, of all groups) 'Dear God," and the "Mayor of Simpleton."

One of my favorite bands ever. My kids love this song, actually.

Was Rock selling more books than the Unknown Soldier during the Bronze Age?

Was Rock selling more books than the Unknown Soldier during the Bronze Age?

Without a doubt. I don't have the figures in front of me (I did compile them once) but OAAW outsold SSWS, and then Sgt. Rock outsold US when the names changed. I can't remember the figure offhand, but by the early 80s, Unknown Soldier was selling less than 90,000 copies per year, at something just above 50% of print run. Terrible numbers for then... but today those kinds of figures would have publishers celebrating.

Here's the numbers for some other DC war books from this era. These are the yearly average circulation numbers per issue:

Our Fighting Forces

1968 - 295,000 printed, 158,000 sold (53% of print run)

1973 - 293,333 printed, 146, 676 sold (50% of print run)

1976 - 305,000 printed, 111,000 sold (36% of print run)

1977 - 291,054 printed, 113, 811 sold (38% of print run)

Once you got under 50% of print run sold back in the day, you were in trouble. Take a look at Weird War's numbers:

Weird War Tales

1975 - 361,000 printed, 158,000 sold (44% of print run)

1976 - 335,000 printed, 135,000 sold (40% of print run)

1977 - 308,478 printed, 121,697 sold (39% of print run)

1978 - 353,648 printed, 113,513 sold (32% of print run)

1979 - 239,185 printed, 85,628 sold (36% of print run)

1980 - 243,857 printed, 83,401 sold (34% of print run)

1981 - 226,757 printed, 79,078 sold (35% of print run)

1982 - 220,120 printed, 67,278 sold (30% of print run)

I have the full information somewhere, but what I would REALLY love to get are the individual sales and circulation numbers for each issue. They were compiled by the publisher, but have never been fully released publicly, at least for the war books. I had a correspondence several years ago with former DC Publisher Paul Levitz, and he was unsure if those numbers even still existed - speaking to the DC Comics librarian (yes, they have a librarian!) there was not record of them. But in the big DC book that Taschen published, there is a section from the 1960s that shows the issue by issue circulation numbers for each month. The only way to build out that data is to go and check the generic numbers that the publisher was obliged to print once a year in order to keep their first class mailing status with the Post Office...

Certainly, though, the snapshot above paints a portrait of a weakening fan base for these books as the years war on. Certainly, OAWW/SR, GI Combat, and SSWS/US did better, but by the end of each title, the numbers were pretty brutal.

Shep

Shep!

That's some cool data. I'd love to see what the profit spreadsheet looked like for these titles too, since per your example, in 1968 when OFF was over 50% the talent pool was Kubert, Grandenetti, Andru/Espo, Heath, Novick...by the end the % sold might have been lower but that was when the artists in the Phillipines were being paid a lot less. By the end the only big names left were Kubert on the covers and Glanzman on some of the interiors. Everything else was overseas talent or Kubert School students. I'm betting they were still making good bank on them at cancellation, just not AS GOOD as the long underwear titles. It's a shame; like you said, those numbers would be very impressive today.

Was Rock selling more books than the Unknown Soldier during the Bronze Age?

 

Without a doubt. I don't have the figures in front of me (I did compile them once) but OAAW outsold SSWS, and then Sgt. Rock outsold US when the names changed. I can't remember the figure offhand, but by the early 80s, Unknown Soldier was selling less than 90,000 copies per year, at something just above 50% of print run. Terrible numbers for then... but today those kinds of figures would have publishers celebrating.

 

Here's the numbers for some other DC war books from this era. These are the yearly average circulation numbers per issue:

 

Our Fighting Forces

 

1968 - 295,000 printed, 158,000 sold (53% of print run)

1973 - 293,333 printed, 146, 676 sold (50% of print run)

1976 - 305,000 printed, 111,000 sold (36% of print run)

1977 - 291,054 printed, 113, 811 sold (38% of print run)

 

Once you got under 50% of print run sold back in the day, you were in trouble. Take a look at Weird War's numbers:

 

Weird War Tales

 

1975 - 361,000 printed, 158,000 sold (44% of print run)

1976 - 335,000 printed, 135,000 sold (40% of print run)

1977 - 308,478 printed, 121,697 sold (39% of print run)

1978 - 353,648 printed, 113,513 sold (32% of print run)

1979 - 239,185 printed, 85,628 sold (36% of print run)

1980 - 243,857 printed, 83,401 sold (34% of print run)

1981 - 226,757 printed, 79,078 sold (35% of print run)

1982 - 220,120 printed, 67,278 sold (30% of print run)

 

 

I have the full information somewhere, but what I would REALLY love to get are the individual sales and circulation numbers for each issue. They were compiled by the publisher, but have never been fully released publicly, at least for the war books. I had a correspondence several years ago with former DC Publisher Paul Levitz, and he was unsure if those numbers even still existed - speaking to the DC Comics librarian (yes, they have a librarian!) there was not record of them. But in the big DC book that Taschen published, there is a section from the 1960s that shows the issue by issue circulation numbers for each month. The only way to build out that data is to go and check the generic numbers that the publisher was obliged to print once a year in order to keep their first class mailing status with the Post Office...

 

Certainly, though, the snapshot above paints a portrait of a weakening fan base for these books as the years war on. Certainly, OAWW/SR, GI Combat, and SSWS/US did better, but by the end of each title, the numbers were pretty brutal.

 

Shep

 

Interesting thing about WWT- I wonder how much of those readers were primarily horror collectors compared to the war guys?

Thanks Shep

So I have been thinking about picking up some war comics lately.

Can anyone suggest some good tpb's taking place in WW2?

Thanks.

So I have been thinking about picking up some war comics lately.

Can anyone suggest some good tpb's taking place in WW2?

Thanks.

Depends on how gritty you like your war comics. DC has their Archive and Showcase reprints which have all of the Sgt Rock, Enemy Ace and Unknown Soldier issues reprinted.

For more intense stuff I'd pick up Ennis' War Stories TPBs. The are really great.

A little off the beaten path but I enjoyed this.

Info about it

I would prefer realistic stories.

I would prefer realistic stories.

My advice would be to pick up a few cheap, low grade BA war books and judge for yourself how realistic they feel to you.

(I think everyone has their own personal metric they would use to determine such a thing.)

For example, personally, I feel like out of all the BA DC war titles, G.I. Combat is the least realistic, mostly because of the premise -- the ghost of Jeb Stuart advising a US tank crew during WWII.

Afte that, I'd probably go with OFF as the second less realistic. SSWS/ Unknown Soldier has an espionage vibe, which I think works well for most of the series. OAAW/Sgt. Rock is, frankly, all over the place. Some issues are quite realistic, while others are not.

Bob Kanigher was writing most of these books (and sometimes all of them) and he is definitely not Garth Ennis. (Although to compare them is really unfair to both writers, as they are/were working in different eras, etc.)

If you feel like casting a wider net, I heartily recommend the British BA war stuff. Alot of it is being reprinted these days in hardcover collections. The BA Brits were very adpet at writing exciting, historical war material that also managed to pack a real punch.

In terms of quality, try checking out Charley's War, followed by Darkie's Mob, Johnny Red and a series called Battle Classics (with intros by Garth Ennis,who talks about his debt to the 70s British war comics and how they inspired his writing.)

I might try Sgt.Rock.

Whats out there reprinted in color?