Pedigree trying to sell art now?

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Pedigree wasn't even on my radar before this thread but after reading all this, they still aren't on my radar. Avoid Avoid Avoid

I, for one, am happy about the way it ended. There was a piece I was eyeing but wasn't ready to put in a serious bid. I take comfort in knowing that it (possibly) is staying put and that if the owner chooses to make it available at another auction site, the price tag or the reserve will be lower.

I, for one, am happy about the way it ended. There was a piece I was eyeing but wasn't ready to put in a serious bid. I take comfort in knowing that it (possibly) is staying put and that if the owner chooses to make it available at another auction site, the price tag or the reserve will be lower.

In a logical world, that would always be the case. However, if the art belongs to a certain dealer there's a better chance of it going up on the site or on eBay for double the reserve it never hit in this auction.

I, for one, am happy about the way it ended. There was a piece I was eyeing but wasn't ready to put in a serious bid. I take comfort in knowing that it (possibly) is staying put and that if the owner chooses to make it available at another auction site, the price tag or the reserve will be lower.

 

 

In a logical world, that would always be the case. However, if the art belongs to a certain dealer there's a better chance of it going up on the site or on eBay for double the reserve it never hit in this auction.

So true, in htraE, everything is opposite. A price not realized means that it is immediately worth double now. If you ask to negotiate downward, the price immediately increases.

I, for one, am happy about the way it ended. There was a piece I was eyeing but wasn't ready to put in a serious bid. I take comfort in knowing that it (possibly) is staying put and that if the owner chooses to make it available at another auction site, the price tag or the reserve will be lower.

 

 

In a logical world, that would always be the case. However, if the art belongs to a certain dealer there's a better chance of it going up on the site or on eBay for double the reserve it never hit in this auction.

Yeah I kind of wondered if he checked Coollines to see if it was listed on there...

I, for one, am happy about the way it ended. There was a piece I was eyeing but wasn't ready to put in a serious bid. I take comfort in knowing that it (possibly) is staying put and that if the owner chooses to make it available at another auction site, the price tag or the reserve will be lower.

 

 

In a logical world, that would always be the case. However, if the art belongs to a certain dealer there's a better chance of it going up on the site or on eBay for double the reserve it never hit in this auction.

 

Yeah I kind of wondered if he checked Coollines to see if it was listed on there...

I checked Coollines and it's not there, although that doesn't mean they don't have it.

So what you guys are telling me is that up is down, down is up, and if I want to go left, I have to move the controller to the right? Collecting comic art is like playing Nintendo's RC Pro AM all over again

This is why its hard to trust Pedigree comics. I always try to trust them and every single time something shady goes down. 2 different times the entire auctions blacked out near the end. You always see books that supposedly "sold" in the last auction back up for sale. The funny thing is the last sales are reported to GPA. Here is an example:

 

Origin of Captain America retold (from Cap to Nick Fury) in a fabulous Stan Lee story. The best existing and #1 CGC ranked example at 9.8 and BONE WHITE pages. This is easily the nicest copy we have ever seen and it is PERFECTLY cut with exactly straight cover alignment. Bone white cover too. Speaking of the cover, it is one of the best of the run courtesy of Jack Kirby and Syd Shores. The highest recorded sale of a NM/M example is $2,550 in 2009 and the last sale of a 9.8 copy is for $2,250 from our June, 2016 Grand Auction.

 

 

From GPA: 2016

 

(4) $2,250Hi $986Lo

Jun-25-2016 $2,250 Cert# 1209165006

 

If the sale in June was a bust, why report sale to GPA and then advertise bunk sale price to pump up the very same book? that just sold for 750.00 less 2 months later. This site is littered with this kind of BS ! If for any reason this is legit and can be explained away, its a tough pill to swallow.

 

 

 

I don't concern myself with slabbed funnybooks, but it seems to me that this copy is not perfectly cut, the spine is pushed slightly around to the back, and moreover the staples are egregiously right of the spine. I bet I could find an equal or better copy at any large convention.

 

Bet you can't

I was thinking the exact same thing, I just didn't know if I wanted to put 4 figures on it or 5.

Jim

Corrected it for ya !

Collecting comic art is like playing Nintendo's CONTRA all over again

↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A Select Start

Looking at this auction now...

WOW

It looks like NOTHING sold.

Looking at this auction now...

 

WOW

 

It looks like NOTHING sold.

Kinda like when you go the Coollines booth at any convention... you see the same merchandise on display like an art gallery priced without the true intention to actually sell since the valuation tends to be overstated per the fair market value comparables.

Pedigree runs the risk of spending overhead costs to operate an auction that will quickly get a bad reputation and have only like-minded sellers who overprice and have high reserves and alienating buyers who either won't care to look and bid or are skeptical of the legitimacy of the pieces and be too wary to bid.

I barely look at Comic Connect's auctions mainly because their material has been lackluster for my focus and tastes. But, I've bought from them before and their reputation is legitimate. I always look at Heritage and Comic Link, since they're proven stable cornerstones in the industry, always coming up with great material, and most of which are no reserve auctions as well.

In my general opinion, if you're going to put a reserve on a piece, maybe putting it up for auction isn't the right way to sell it. I'd probably opt first to consign it or post it up at a fixed price (and if you're willing to negotiate, put the "or best offer" disclaimer). I think that's one of the key failing points with Pedgree Auctions, too many auctions with reserves, and ones that clearly (based upon the volume not met) were overpriced.

I think reserves can be an OK safety net, so long as they are set below the low end of comps. i.e. If a piece is in the overall market range of say 8-12k, setting a reserve at 5 - 6k ensures one doesn't take a complete bath on it in the instance that 2 collectors don't show up that day interested in it. Now setting the reserve up in the 8-12k range is just stupid for a number of reasons, but whatever.

I think part of it has to do with actual willingness to liquidate, but part can also have to do with the specificity of a type of work. I think there are some niche artists and titles out there where some big dollar pieces could sell for next to nothing due to timing, or lack of advertising.

We always talk about how it only takes 2 or 3 interested parties to make a piece blow by expected estimates and set records. The flip side is if 2 of those folks don't show, it can go the complete opposite way.

In the interest of disclosure, I haven't auctioned off anything with a reserve in ages. But I don't see them as all bad, so long as they err on the very low end. What I've seen on this auction is the opposite of that.

I think reserves can be an OK safety net, so long as they are set below the low end of comps. i.e. If a piece is in the overall market range of say 8-12k, setting a reserve at 5 - 6k ensures one doesn't take a complete bath on it in the instance that 2 collectors don't show up that day interested in it. Now setting the reserve up in the 8-12k range is just stupid for a number of reasons, but whatever.

 

I think part of it has to do with actual willingness to liquidate, but part can also have to do with the specificity of a type of work. I think there are some niche artists and titles out there where some big dollar pieces could sell for next to nothing due to timing, or lack of advertising.

 

We always talk about how it only takes 2 or 3 interested parties to make a piece blow by expected estimates and set records. The flip side is if 2 of those folks don't show, it can go the complete opposite way.

 

In the interest of disclosure, I haven't auctioned off anything with a reserve in ages. But I don't see them as all bad, so long as they err on the very low end. What I've seen on this auction is the opposite of that.

I agree that setting a low reserve is not a bad rule of thumb. Essentially, setting a reserve at all is up to the person who's piece it is but I find that too many reserves, just not at this auction on Pedigree, are just set way out of expectation. That's why I think if a person is in no hurry to sell the piece then they should just consign it or put it on CAF with the $ and see if anyone eventually bites. Putting it in an auction just smacks of speculation in that while the reserve should be the floor of what you are willing to take on the art, it's now becoming the ceiling and it just seems to chase a lot of collectors away.

I love this way of thinking anyway. The art you own has a perceived value to you and unless someone comes to you with that price you won't move on it, but the thing is, if you really don't want the art anymore and would rather have the money, you are holding yourself hostage of getting any money. Until you have that money in hand, what you have is really your perception of it's value. While that value can be seen in what the auctions recently sold or trade deals you are privy to, but if you paid too much for it and want to see that money come back to you then you may be waiting for a long while for that to happen if the FMV isn't even close.

I'm not a fan of reserves. I tend to gloss over an auction item with one (even if i want the piece). I sort of wish there were no reserves allowed in any major auction to be honest, or if they have them on a piece just start the bidding at the reserve. I've consigned hundreds of items between HA and CL and I have never put a reserve on anything, whatever it sells for it sells for. Maybe if I was dealing consistently in 10k+ items I would feel differently but if something is worth less than 5k I usually feel the market will find its balance why ruin it with a reserve? Sometimes you take a loss, sometimes you make a killing....usually I find you just get dead center market because folks aren't fools and they tend to not let things go for a steal to someone else. Anyway, my penny's worth.

Pedigree now has 3 pages of art listed for sale that didn't sell in the auction. At the reserves they didn't sell for, some even higher.

In Europe we don't have this kind of discussion, because all auctioned items (I mean *real* auctions - not eBay - such as the ones from Christie's, Sotheby's, Artcurial, Millon...) have an estimation, and all auctioned items have a reserve price which is often set at the low estimation price. Which means in fact that estimations are not real expert estimations but are driven by the reserve price negociated with the seller.

In Europe we don't have this kind of discussion, because all auctioned items (I mean *real* auctions - not eBay - such as the ones from Christie's, Sotheby's, Artcurial, Millon...) have an estimation, and all auctioned items have a reserve price which is often set at the low estimation price. Which means in fact that estimations are not real expert estimations but are driven by the reserve price negociated with the seller.

Interesting. What percentage of those auction items sell, by meeting their reserve? Most?

Also, does bidding start at the reserve price?

Corrected it for ya !

 

Collecting comic art is like playing Nintendo's CONTRA all over again

 

 

↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A Select Start

In Europe we don't have this kind of discussion, because all auctioned items (I mean *real* auctions - not eBay - such as the ones from Christie's, Sotheby's, Artcurial, Millon...) have an estimation, and all auctioned items have a reserve price which is often set at the low estimation price. Which means in fact that estimations are not real expert estimations but are driven by the reserve price negociated with the seller.

 

 

Interesting. What percentage of those auction items sell, by meeting their reserve? Most?

Also, does bidding start at the reserve price?

I would say most, but not all. Auction houses tend to refuse items if the seller asks for a reserve too high. If they have many items not sold at auction, it doesn't look good (just like Pedigree right now).

Also, they prefer to have low or no reserves so they can put a low estimation on an item and claim after the sale: "Look, we managed to sell this item for 3 times the pre-sale estimation. It's because we are very good at getting a high selling price. Future consignors should give us their items if they want to get the best price."

Usually, the bidding starts a bit below the reserve, but not at 1euro/dollar like most american auctions do.

Only a small handful of OA pieces actually sold (mostly low-end stuff). Main consignor seems to be Coolines (no big surprises that reserves weren't met).

Love to hear the auction house's reaction to this embarrassing fiasco?

In Europe we don't have this kind of discussion, because all auctioned items (I mean *real* auctions - not eBay - such as the ones from Christie's, Sotheby's, Artcurial, Millon...) have an estimation, and all auctioned items have a reserve price which is often set at the low estimation price. Which means in fact that estimations are not real expert estimations but are driven by the reserve price negociated with the seller.

 

 

Interesting. What percentage of those auction items sell, by meeting their reserve? Most?

Also, does bidding start at the reserve price?

 

Auction houses tend to refuse items if the seller asks for a reserve too high. If they have many items not sold at auction, it doesn't look good.

Pedigree take note.