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Finger bends after pressing?
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39 posts in this topic

I just got grades on a bunch of books I sent in for pressing and straight to CGC that came back with a ton of finger bends. Shouldn't the pressing have taken care of something like that? Educate me on this because if I'm paying for a press to get them out and it won't. I'll stop paying for the press!

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Non color break finger bends should come out with a full service pressing.

 

I should point out that finger bends are easy to create, so it is possible they could have occurred after the pressing.

 

+1

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I just got grades on a bunch of books I sent in for pressing and straight to CGC that came back with a ton of finger bends. Shouldn't the pressing have taken care of something like that? Educate me on this because if I'm paying for a press to get them out and it won't. I'll stop paying for the press!

 

It depends. Do you have the books in hand?

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Nothing back yet. Just shipped out yesterday.

 

I totally understand that the finger bends could have been caused after the pressing but it seems there should be some middle ground for this. If the people that are doing the grading are the ones that are putting them there in the first place, what's the point?

 

I'm more than a little upset at a lot of the grades I have received lately, and between these grades and a pinched nerve in my shoulder/neck yesterday was all I could take.

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Nothing back yet. Just shipped out yesterday.

 

I totally understand that the finger bends could have been caused after the pressing but it seems there should be some middle ground for this. If the people that are doing the grading are the ones that are putting them there in the first place, what's the point?

 

I'm more than a little upset at a lot of the grades I have received lately, and between these grades and a pinched nerve in my shoulder/neck yesterday was all I could take.

 

A pinched nerve can certainly make a smaller issue a big one. ;-)

 

I hear that CGC is going through a tight phase right now. :gossip:

Edited by MastrCntrlProgram
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I don't think it was considered tight when I sent them in. Now it seems they are pressing diamonds out of coal. I have a Wonder Woman 184 with these grader notes: "Crease right top front cover, medium bend right center of front cover" I was thinking 9.6 - 9.8 at the time I sent it in, because those issues were not there. Came back 8.0. I'll scan it when I get home.

 

On top of that, I had sent 14 other books in for pressing, most with only minor flaws. Only 1 9.8 came back and most had "finger bends" left and right.

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I don't think it was considered tight when I sent them in. Now it seems they are pressing diamonds out of coal. I have a Wonder Woman 184 with these grader notes: "Crease right top front cover, medium bend right center of front cover" I was thinking 9.6 - 9.8 at the time I sent it in, because those issues were not there. Came back 8.0. I'll scan it when I get home.

 

On top of that, I had sent 14 other books in for pressing, most with only minor flaws. Only 1 9.8 came back and most had "finger bends" left and right.

 

I does sound like poor pressing. One or 2 books could be anything, but the way you describe it, it sound like more than half have press-able defects, that's not a good sign. I frequently check graders notes to see if press-able defects are mentioned, and it is rare.

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In regards to CGC being tight, I've found CGC to be right, bang, smack-middle-of-the-road-where-they-should-be IMO right now.

 

But I've only primarily graded higher grade books. Other people's experience may vary.

 

I wouldn't rely on grading notes alone to figure out what is wrong with the books. They have become very liberal with grading notes over the last few years.

 

You should have a better idea of how close the notes match the books when you get them back in hand.

 

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is who pressed the books. You don't necessarily have to say but who presses your books can have an effect on the final product just as much as anything else.

 

 

 

 

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In regards to CGC being tight, I've found CGC to be right, bang, smack-middle-of-the-road-where-they-should-be IMO right now.

 

But I've only primarily graded higher grade books. Other people's experience may vary.

 

I wouldn't rely on grading notes alone to figure out what is wrong with the books. They have become very liberal with grading notes over the last few years.

 

You should have a better idea of how close the notes match the books when you get them back in hand.

 

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is who pressed the books. You don't necessarily have to say but who presses your books can have an effect on the final product just as much as anything else.

 

 

 

 

My recent experiences with CGC have been more unpleasant surprises than pleasant surprises last year and earlier this year. More pleasant surprises than unpleasant surprises from mid-year on this year. That's over a couple of hundred books, mostly SA and GA, with only a few being high grade.

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The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is who pressed the books. You don't necessarily have to say but who presses your books can have an effect on the final product just as much as anything else.

 

This is so true. It seems whenever somebody is unhappy with their grades, they only blame CGC. The assumption being that their books were properly pressed. Based on the OP's comments it would seem the presser could be at fault. CGC is grading what they have in front of them. If it's not a 9.8 in their hands, why is it their fault ?

Edited by bomber-bob
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I probably send on average around 500 books a year in to CGC (already way past that for 2016), and I'm not qualified to be a grader by any means, but if what I thought was a 9.8 is now an 8.0 there will be a lot less book coming through the pipeline.

 

As for who is doing the pressing, I'm keeping my mouth shut on this for now. I have used at least two different companies and I know my history with each over the years. I'm just as concerned in these matters with what is happening to my books after the press and before encapsulation and why I'm being downgraded on books for something that is likely happening during the grading process.

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I'm being downgraded on books for something that is likely happening during the grading process.

 

With so many steps in the whole process from when it leaves your hands and the graders ultimately see it, I don't understand how you say that it's 'likely' the graders fault. If the CGC graders were routinely turning 9.8's into 8.0's from handling, I doubt CGC would still be in business. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish by starting this thread but I don't think you are convincing anyone it's the fault of the graders.

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I don't think it was considered tight when I sent them in. Now it seems they are pressing diamonds out of coal. I have a Wonder Woman 184 with these grader notes: "Crease right top front cover, medium bend right center of front cover" I was thinking 9.6 - 9.8 at the time I sent it in, because those issues were not there. Came back 8.0. I'll scan it when I get home.

 

On top of that, I had sent 14 other books in for pressing, most with only minor flaws. Only 1 9.8 came back and most had "finger bends" left and right.

 

Finger bends are likely to occur at such a high rate when books are improperly pressed.If a book is not humidified proor to being pressed, by the time the graders receieve the book, paper memory will force the book to revert to its' pre-pressed state.The graders cannot be blamed for that.

 

It could be half arsed pressing and it could also be damage from shipping.

 

If a box is dropped, a myriad of defects can be kicked into place. Even if the books are double bagged and double boarded , and impeccably packed, books can and likely will take a hit to varying degrees.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The point of the thread was nothing more than to get eyes on the situation and opinions, which is what has happened.

 

Seems most of you feel that this is happening either prior to grading or due to improper pressing, but within the first couple of posts it was offered up that the finger bends could have been AFTER the press, I simply ran with that thought. Since there is apparently no way to know when the finger bends occurred and the book was downgraded because of them, what's the point in getting it pressed at all?

 

I actually agree with the statement about paper memory. It almost forces you to do fast track and even then who knows if the press will have had lasted on the book.

 

If a box is received damaged, or dropped I would expect to be informed. There's a reason I buy insurance on these packages after all. Probably expecting too much here, but it is what it is.

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Seems most of you feel that this is happening either prior to grading or due to improper pressing, but within the first couple of posts it was offered up that the finger bends could have been AFTER the press, I simply ran with that thought.

 

Please note it was pressers that were offering up the fact that it could have been post press.

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If a box is received damaged, or dropped I would expect to be informed. There's a reason I buy insurance on these packages after all. Probably expecting too much here, but it is what it is.

 

This covers from you to the presser. But what if the presser packs the books poorly ? What if the presser hand delivers the books to CGC ? The presser is handling the books so much more than the graders = much higher probability of that's way the finger bends occurred.

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The point of the thread was nothing more than to get eyes on the situation and opinions, which is what has happened.

 

Seems most of you feel that this is happening either prior to grading or due to improper pressing, but within the first couple of posts it was offered up that the finger bends could have been AFTER the press, I simply ran with that thought. Since there is apparently no way to know when the finger bends occurred and the book was downgraded because of them, what's the point in getting it pressed at all?

 

I actually agree with the statement about paper memory. It almost forces you to do fast track and even then who knows if the press will have had lasted on the book.

 

If a box is received damaged, or dropped I would expect to be informed. There's a reason I buy insurance on these packages after all. Probably expecting too much here, but it is what it is.

 

There are so many variables to consider.

 

1st is the type of book being pressed. They don't all press the same GA books vary from each other, SA books vary from each other and BA books vary from each other, etc, etc.

 

2nd is how they were pressed. That's not even a right and wrong thing, but no two people are the same.

 

3rd is how they were handled from the press to the grader's hands, and that could easily entail any or all of the following as they move along this chain:

 

you

presser

shipping

packaging supplies used

how long they were in transit

climates the book has passed through from point A to point B (they likely pass through multiple temperature and humidity changes in one shipment)

how they were handled after they arrived

how they were handled from CGC to your possession (see above lines again)

 

That's why I always say there is some risk involved every time a book is handled, pressed or shipped. Sure, the advantages generally outweigh the disadvantages but there are losses and the more volume you do the greater the chance of something happening. That's why slabbing, pressing and shipping is not for everyone, especially those that are risk averse.

 

One thing I've stated many times is that many people cheap out on steps like using top notch storing and shipping supplies, shipping companies, etc

 

Many sig series guys will attest to books getting damaged if they are not in proper supplies. Personally, I use ALWAYS Mylars and Fullbacks for all my books going to CGC.

 

Expensive and sounds like a waste because they are getting recycled anyway? Sure, but the cost of maybe $2 a book is pretty cheap compared to a 3, 4 or 5 figure book being banged around in shipment. :o

 

Anyhow, lots to consider.

 

A drop from an expected 9.8 to 8.0 screams of a possible missed defect like a water spot and although I realize it's not in the notes I guess you'll know when you get the books back what happened.

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If a box is received damaged, or dropped I would expect to be informed. There's a reason I buy insurance on these packages after all. Probably expecting too much here, but it is what it is.

 

This covers from you to the presser. But what if the presser packs the books poorly ? What if the presser hand delivers the books to CGC ? The presser is handling the books so much more than the graders = much higher probability of that's way the finger bends occurred.

 

I cannot speak for others, but once I am done with the books they go directly back into the bag and board. Once in the bag and board they go into sturdy plastic file boxes where they stay until I can drive the books down to the graders.

 

At the graders they are received, and then put into different boxes. They are then verified (identifying all the books are there). The pages are counted. The inside of the covers are inspected for defects and stains. The outside covers are examined for defects and stains. The staples are checked for rust. The book is checked for resto. Then they are placed back into the bag and board and await encapsulation. Granted, any impact on the grade would happen before the graders get to them, but we would be fooling ourselves if we think nothing can ever happen to a book once it is in the hands of a grader or the encapsulation person.

 

Transparent much Bob?

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