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SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING starring Tom Holland (7/28/17)
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1,648 posts in this topic

 

Nobody WANTS to create a new character for Marvel because then Marvel OWNS it and makes all the money off of it.

So they'd rather update the characters for a new audience.

 

 

 

This x1000.

 

Yup. Totally agree with Mr. Gower.

They're just trying to give an old spider new spin to an ever-growing and potentially larger audience.

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Isn't this still just a rumor about Zendaya?

 

Zendaya Rumored For Mary Jane In Spider-Man: Homecoming

 

h95u2vK.jpg

 

Disney and Sony's PC route for Spider-Man: Homecoming looks to continue as now it's being said Zendaya is playing long time Peter Parker girlfriend and wife in the comics, Mary Jane Watson.

 

The news about Zendaya is contrary to previous reports that she is playing a character named Michelle in Spider-Man: Homecoming. The rumor states a -script for Spider-Man: Homecoming points to Zendaya playing Mary Jane, but not much else is known.

 

Sony, Disney and Marvel Studios have yet to confirm the news.

 

Disney and Marvel have been taking a similar path in their comics by replacing characters with PC versions, which looks to have finally caught up with the company as sales haven't been that good and fans are getting pretty sick and tired of it all.

 

She is very cute.

 

She is what 18 years old? And she already lost her eyebrows. Not sure if this is MJ model material.

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I hope they pull this new Spider-Man reboot off.

After watching new modern heroes like Deadpool,Harley Quinn and the Will Smith Deadshot I find Spidey kind of dated now. I really hope they give Spider-Man fans what they want and don't disappoint them like it seemed they did with Superman in Man of Steel and the Garfield Spider-Man.

:wishluck:

 

 

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Isn't this still just a rumor about Zendaya?

 

Zendaya Rumored For Mary Jane In Spider-Man: Homecoming

 

h95u2vK.jpg

 

Disney and Sony's PC route for Spider-Man: Homecoming looks to continue as now it's being said Zendaya is playing long time Peter Parker girlfriend and wife in the comics, Mary Jane Watson.

 

The news about Zendaya is contrary to previous reports that she is playing a character named Michelle in Spider-Man: Homecoming. The rumor states a -script for Spider-Man: Homecoming points to Zendaya playing Mary Jane, but not much else is known.

 

Sony, Disney and Marvel Studios have yet to confirm the news.

 

Disney and Marvel have been taking a similar path in their comics by replacing characters with PC versions, which looks to have finally caught up with the company as sales haven't been that good and fans are getting pretty sick and tired of it all.

 

She is very cute.

 

She is what 18 years old? And she already lost her eyebrows. Not sure if this is MJ model material.

 

19.

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I hope they pull this new Spider-Man reboot off.

After watching new modern heroes like Deadpool,Harley Quinn and the Will Smith Deadshot I find Spidey kind of dated now. I really hope they give Spider-Man fans what they want and don't disappoint them like it seemed they did with Superman in Man of Steel and the Garfield Spider-Man.

:wishluck:

 

 

Is Harley Quinn considered a hero now? :o

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Well put.

 

And I don't buy the "changes for the sake of changes" argument, particularly as we transition to a) a different era than that one in which Stan Lee, Jack Kirby & others were creating, and b) to a different medium.

 

"Fidelity to the source material" is BS:

 

Spider-Man's organic web-shooters in the Raimi trilogy were the same sort of "needless change" that ended up streamlining the story a bit (and its believability -- ie., harder for me to believe that Peter Parker could invent them himself than inherit the power from the spider bite -- same reason I defend the Disney retcon that he inherits the tech from Tony Stark).

 

Watchmen was _vastly_ improved by removing the idiotic squid.

 

Catwoman (as another example) was a mess movie that had precisely zero to do with Halle Berry's being cast in the role.

 

Back to my first point -- if the Marvel Universe were created today, it would have _far_ more diversity than it did when it was created in the pre-Civil Rights era. Because the country is different now.

 

Folks are free to think otherwise, but I hope they are aware of the extent to which such knee-jerk reactions against race-blind casting decisions (be they PC or not) makes them sound like nothing but racists.

 

This is wildly_fanciful_statement of the highest order.

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Isn't this still just a rumor about Zendaya?

 

Zendaya Rumored For Mary Jane In Spider-Man: Homecoming

 

h95u2vK.jpg

 

Disney and Sony's PC route for Spider-Man: Homecoming looks to continue as now it's being said Zendaya is playing long time Peter Parker girlfriend and wife in the comics, Mary Jane Watson.

 

The news about Zendaya is contrary to previous reports that she is playing a character named Michelle in Spider-Man: Homecoming. The rumor states a -script for Spider-Man: Homecoming points to Zendaya playing Mary Jane, but not much else is known.

 

Sony, Disney and Marvel Studios have yet to confirm the news.

 

Disney and Marvel have been taking a similar path in their comics by replacing characters with PC versions, which looks to have finally caught up with the company as sales haven't been that good and fans are getting pretty sick and tired of it all.

 

She is very cute.

 

She is what 18 years old? And she already lost her eyebrows. Not sure if this is MJ model material.

 

19.

 

There must have been a mixup, meant for the part to go to her co-star from Shake It Up.

 

Emea_siu_img_char_character_cece_1_0_zpseww0bww7.jpg

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Well put.

 

And I don't buy the "changes for the sake of changes" argument, particularly as we transition to a) a different era than that one in which Stan Lee, Jack Kirby & others were creating, and b) to a different medium.

 

"Fidelity to the source material" is BS:

 

Spider-Man's organic web-shooters in the Raimi trilogy were the same sort of "needless change" that ended up streamlining the story a bit (and its believability -- ie., harder for me to believe that Peter Parker could invent them himself than inherit the power from the spider bite -- same reason I defend the Disney retcon that he inherits the tech from Tony Stark).

 

Watchmen was _vastly_ improved by removing the idiotic squid.

 

Catwoman (as another example) was a mess movie that had precisely zero to do with Halle Berry's being cast in the role.

 

Back to my first point -- if the Marvel Universe were created today, it would have _far_ more diversity than it did when it was created in the pre-Civil Rights era. Because the country is different now.

 

Folks are free to think otherwise, but I hope they are aware of the extent to which such knee-jerk reactions against race-blind casting decisions (be they PC or not) makes them sound like nothing but racists.

 

This is wildly_fanciful_statement of the highest order.

 

Oh Really?

 

See James Gunn's defense of Zendaya's casting from his Facebook post a few days back:

 

 

James Gunn

August 19 at 2:40pm ·

 

"People get upset when something they consider intrinsic to a comic book character changes when adapted for a film. I get this. There are movies I dislike because I think there's a basic misunderstanding of the story or the character when the comic is transferred to film (I still hate how in the first Batman movie the Joker was revealed as the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents, for instance.)

 

That said, I do not believe a character is the color of his or her skin. When Michael B Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm I didn't understand the uproar. The primary characteristic of Johnny was not, to me, that he was white, or that he had blonde hair, but that he was a fiery, funny, big-mouthed braggart of a hero. I was happy that he was going to be played by one of the finest and most charming young actors out there.

 

Yesterday, a rumor broke out that the character of Mary Jane was being played by a young black woman, Zendaya, and all hell broke out on the Internet (again). I tweeted that if people find themselves complaining about Mary Jane's ethnicity they have lives that are too good. (For those of you who think this means I'm confirming that Zendaya IS playing MJ, realize that although I've read the Spidey -script, and I've met the actress in question, I have no idea what her role is.

 

There's a good chance someone told me at one time or another, but, if so, I can't remember. I'm going to find out when I go into Marvel this afternoon, but I feel free to speak until that time because it's about the concept about a black woman playing Mary Jane, not the actuality or hypothesis of it.)

 

I got a thousand or so responses to my tweet. Most of them were positive. Some folks disagreed - they thought the character should look like what she looks like in the comics - but were thoughtful. And a handful were flat out racist.

 

I can't respond to the racists - I'm not ever going to change their minds. But for the thoughtful majority of you out there:

 

For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.

 

Whatever the case, if we're going to continue to make movies based on the almost all white heroes and supporting characters from the comics of the last century, we're going to have to get used to them being more reflective of our diverse present world. Perhaps we can be open to the idea that, although someone may not initially match how we personally conceive a character, we can be - and often are - happily surprised."

 

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Also, props to James Gunn for proactively responding to the reactions this Facebook post received. The top 3 are below, and he echoes my thoughts 100%.

 

Angrea Furiosa Brig Fowler

 

I agree on principle, but in practice when an non-white character is played by a white person in the movies...it's white washing? So, I can see why people are upset, I don't agree with them because IT'S FICTION!!! But it can't be both ways.

 

James Gunn's response:

 

I don't always agree with charges of white washing, but there is a difference between changing one of the very few minority characters into yet another white person and changing one of the almost-all white people into a minority.

 

Christopher Thigpen

 

meh..the only thing i dislike is changing races. its poor planning and laziness. you have hundreds of heroes at one's disposal, don't change race, just to have that race in the film. Bring out the other hero's. and no..The Johnny Storm casting was garbage, but then again, that entire film was a fugazi. Again, it is LAZY.

 

James Gunn's response:

 

I don't mean to be overly offensive, but all of you people assuming that black actors are chosen because the studios want a black person in the role, as opposed to them being the best actor for the role, are kinda missing something. That's how it works sometimes, but not usually. Usually lots of people audition and if the best actor is not white, that's who gets cast.

 

Tim Galian

 

Johnny Storm was Sue Storm's brother, period. If you were going to change races for whatever reason (don't know why you would) but change them both. They really had to write a load of half assed to change the story for zero payoff other than satisfying some ridiculous PC need.

Captain America in the comics changed to a Blackman, it was done in a very organic way with an existing character, and made sense, same for Iron man, Spiderman, Green Lantern and a few others. There are ways to do it without totally destroying the character that even serve to further the story line. Don't do it for no apparent reason.

 

I've no issue with any of the heroes being one way or the other, just don't change what the character is and what it represents for no reason.

 

If you have a need to fill some quota to represent something you don't feel is represented, create a new character.

 

James Gunn's response:

 

I have adopted cousins and nieces and nephews. You know what I call them? Cousins and nieces and nephews. I'm really sick of this thing of saying he's not her brother because he's adopted.

 

 

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So people are crying because Mary Jane is a true girl from the Bronx, but no one cries about Aunt May?

 

I thought Mary Jane was from Queens. (shrug)

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Isn't this still just a rumor about Zendaya?

 

Zendaya Rumored For Mary Jane In Spider-Man: Homecoming

 

h95u2vK.jpg

 

Disney and Sony's PC route for Spider-Man: Homecoming looks to continue as now it's being said Zendaya is playing long time Peter Parker girlfriend and wife in the comics, Mary Jane Watson.

 

The news about Zendaya is contrary to previous reports that she is playing a character named Michelle in Spider-Man: Homecoming. The rumor states a -script for Spider-Man: Homecoming points to Zendaya playing Mary Jane, but not much else is known.

 

Sony, Disney and Marvel Studios have yet to confirm the news.

 

Disney and Marvel have been taking a similar path in their comics by replacing characters with PC versions, which looks to have finally caught up with the company as sales haven't been that good and fans are getting pretty sick and tired of it all.

 

She is very cute.

 

She is what 18 years old? And she already lost her eyebrows. Not sure if this is MJ model material.

 

19.

 

There must have been a mixup, meant for the part to go to her co-star from Shake It Up.

 

Emea_siu_img_char_character_cece_1_0_zpseww0bww7.jpg

 

How I hate this Disney schlock. To the point that I have no desire to see these kids in other things after they grow up and move on.

 

And as the father of young girls, there's no getting away from it.

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Well put.

 

And I don't buy the "changes for the sake of changes" argument, particularly as we transition to a) a different era than that one in which Stan Lee, Jack Kirby & others were creating, and b) to a different medium.

 

"Fidelity to the source material" is BS:

 

Spider-Man's organic web-shooters in the Raimi trilogy were the same sort of "needless change" that ended up streamlining the story a bit (and its believability -- ie., harder for me to believe that Peter Parker could invent them himself than inherit the power from the spider bite -- same reason I defend the Disney retcon that he inherits the tech from Tony Stark).

 

Watchmen was _vastly_ improved by removing the idiotic squid.

 

Catwoman (as another example) was a mess movie that had precisely zero to do with Halle Berry's being cast in the role.

 

Back to my first point -- if the Marvel Universe were created today, it would have _far_ more diversity than it did when it was created in the pre-Civil Rights era. Because the country is different now.

 

Folks are free to think otherwise, but I hope they are aware of the extent to which such knee-jerk reactions against race-blind casting decisions (be they PC or not) makes them sound like nothing but racists.

 

This is wildly_fanciful_statement of the highest order.

 

Oh Really?

 

See James Gunn's defense of Zendaya's casting from his Facebook post a few days back:

 

 

James Gunn

August 19 at 2:40pm ·

 

"People get upset when something they consider intrinsic to a comic book character changes when adapted for a film. I get this. There are movies I dislike because I think there's a basic misunderstanding of the story or the character when the comic is transferred to film (I still hate how in the first Batman movie the Joker was revealed as the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents, for instance.)

 

That said, I do not believe a character is the color of his or her skin. When Michael B Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm I didn't understand the uproar. The primary characteristic of Johnny was not, to me, that he was white, or that he had blonde hair, but that he was a fiery, funny, big-mouthed braggart of a hero. I was happy that he was going to be played by one of the finest and most charming young actors out there.

 

Yesterday, a rumor broke out that the character of Mary Jane was being played by a young black woman, Zendaya, and all hell broke out on the Internet (again). I tweeted that if people find themselves complaining about Mary Jane's ethnicity they have lives that are too good. (For those of you who think this means I'm confirming that Zendaya IS playing MJ, realize that although I've read the Spidey -script, and I've met the actress in question, I have no idea what her role is.

 

There's a good chance someone told me at one time or another, but, if so, I can't remember. I'm going to find out when I go into Marvel this afternoon, but I feel free to speak until that time because it's about the concept about a black woman playing Mary Jane, not the actuality or hypothesis of it.)

 

I got a thousand or so responses to my tweet. Most of them were positive. Some folks disagreed - they thought the character should look like what she looks like in the comics - but were thoughtful. And a handful were flat out racist.

 

I can't respond to the racists - I'm not ever going to change their minds. But for the thoughtful majority of you out there:

 

For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.

 

Whatever the case, if we're going to continue to make movies based on the almost all white heroes and supporting characters from the comics of the last century, we're going to have to get used to them being more reflective of our diverse present world. Perhaps we can be open to the idea that, although someone may not initially match how we personally conceive a character, we can be - and often are - happily surprised."

 

Gunn has his opinion, which IMO is also wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

If you made a remake of Shaft, and cast a white guy as the lead, Gunn would be talking out the other side of his .

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So people are crying because Mary Jane is a true girl from the Bronx, but no one cries about Aunt May?

 

 

I thought everyone was already universally in agreement that Aunt May Tomei is a horrible idea? Everyone I know is anyway.

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Well put.

 

And I don't buy the "changes for the sake of changes" argument, particularly as we transition to a) a different era than that one in which Stan Lee, Jack Kirby & others were creating, and b) to a different medium.

 

"Fidelity to the source material" is BS:

 

Spider-Man's organic web-shooters in the Raimi trilogy were the same sort of "needless change" that ended up streamlining the story a bit (and its believability -- ie., harder for me to believe that Peter Parker could invent them himself than inherit the power from the spider bite -- same reason I defend the Disney retcon that he inherits the tech from Tony Stark).

 

Watchmen was _vastly_ improved by removing the idiotic squid.

 

Catwoman (as another example) was a mess movie that had precisely zero to do with Halle Berry's being cast in the role.

 

Back to my first point -- if the Marvel Universe were created today, it would have _far_ more diversity than it did when it was created in the pre-Civil Rights era. Because the country is different now.

 

Folks are free to think otherwise, but I hope they are aware of the extent to which such knee-jerk reactions against race-blind casting decisions (be they PC or not) makes them sound like nothing but racists.

 

This is wildly_fanciful_statement of the highest order.

 

Oh Really?

 

See James Gunn's defense of Zendaya's casting from his Facebook post a few days back:

 

 

James Gunn

August 19 at 2:40pm ·

 

"People get upset when something they consider intrinsic to a comic book character changes when adapted for a film. I get this. There are movies I dislike because I think there's a basic misunderstanding of the story or the character when the comic is transferred to film (I still hate how in the first Batman movie the Joker was revealed as the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents, for instance.)

 

That said, I do not believe a character is the color of his or her skin. When Michael B Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm I didn't understand the uproar. The primary characteristic of Johnny was not, to me, that he was white, or that he had blonde hair, but that he was a fiery, funny, big-mouthed braggart of a hero. I was happy that he was going to be played by one of the finest and most charming young actors out there.

 

Yesterday, a rumor broke out that the character of Mary Jane was being played by a young black woman, Zendaya, and all hell broke out on the Internet (again). I tweeted that if people find themselves complaining about Mary Jane's ethnicity they have lives that are too good. (For those of you who think this means I'm confirming that Zendaya IS playing MJ, realize that although I've read the Spidey -script, and I've met the actress in question, I have no idea what her role is.

 

There's a good chance someone told me at one time or another, but, if so, I can't remember. I'm going to find out when I go into Marvel this afternoon, but I feel free to speak until that time because it's about the concept about a black woman playing Mary Jane, not the actuality or hypothesis of it.)

 

I got a thousand or so responses to my tweet. Most of them were positive. Some folks disagreed - they thought the character should look like what she looks like in the comics - but were thoughtful. And a handful were flat out racist.

 

I can't respond to the racists - I'm not ever going to change their minds. But for the thoughtful majority of you out there:

 

For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.

 

Whatever the case, if we're going to continue to make movies based on the almost all white heroes and supporting characters from the comics of the last century, we're going to have to get used to them being more reflective of our diverse present world. Perhaps we can be open to the idea that, although someone may not initially match how we personally conceive a character, we can be - and often are - happily surprised."

 

Gunn has his opinion, which IMO is also wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

If you made a remake of Shaft, and cast a white guy as the lead, Gunn would be talking out the other side of his .

 

I can't speak for Gunn, but I would think that Shaft's primary attribute is much more connected to his race than Mary Jane's. It was called blacksploitation after all.

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Well put.

 

And I don't buy the "changes for the sake of changes" argument, particularly as we transition to a) a different era than that one in which Stan Lee, Jack Kirby & others were creating, and b) to a different medium.

 

"Fidelity to the source material" is BS:

 

Spider-Man's organic web-shooters in the Raimi trilogy were the same sort of "needless change" that ended up streamlining the story a bit (and its believability -- ie., harder for me to believe that Peter Parker could invent them himself than inherit the power from the spider bite -- same reason I defend the Disney retcon that he inherits the tech from Tony Stark).

 

Watchmen was _vastly_ improved by removing the idiotic squid.

 

Catwoman (as another example) was a mess movie that had precisely zero to do with Halle Berry's being cast in the role.

 

Back to my first point -- if the Marvel Universe were created today, it would have _far_ more diversity than it did when it was created in the pre-Civil Rights era. Because the country is different now.

 

Folks are free to think otherwise, but I hope they are aware of the extent to which such knee-jerk reactions against race-blind casting decisions (be they PC or not) makes them sound like nothing but racists.

 

This is wildly_fanciful_statement of the highest order.

 

Oh Really?

 

See James Gunn's defense of Zendaya's casting from his Facebook post a few days back:

 

 

James Gunn

August 19 at 2:40pm ·

 

"People get upset when something they consider intrinsic to a comic book character changes when adapted for a film. I get this. There are movies I dislike because I think there's a basic misunderstanding of the story or the character when the comic is transferred to film (I still hate how in the first Batman movie the Joker was revealed as the murderer of Bruce Wayne's parents, for instance.)

 

That said, I do not believe a character is the color of his or her skin. When Michael B Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm I didn't understand the uproar. The primary characteristic of Johnny was not, to me, that he was white, or that he had blonde hair, but that he was a fiery, funny, big-mouthed braggart of a hero. I was happy that he was going to be played by one of the finest and most charming young actors out there.

 

Yesterday, a rumor broke out that the character of Mary Jane was being played by a young black woman, Zendaya, and all hell broke out on the Internet (again). I tweeted that if people find themselves complaining about Mary Jane's ethnicity they have lives that are too good. (For those of you who think this means I'm confirming that Zendaya IS playing MJ, realize that although I've read the Spidey -script, and I've met the actress in question, I have no idea what her role is.

 

There's a good chance someone told me at one time or another, but, if so, I can't remember. I'm going to find out when I go into Marvel this afternoon, but I feel free to speak until that time because it's about the concept about a black woman playing Mary Jane, not the actuality or hypothesis of it.)

 

I got a thousand or so responses to my tweet. Most of them were positive. Some folks disagreed - they thought the character should look like what she looks like in the comics - but were thoughtful. And a handful were flat out racist.

 

I can't respond to the racists - I'm not ever going to change their minds. But for the thoughtful majority of you out there:

 

For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.

 

Whatever the case, if we're going to continue to make movies based on the almost all white heroes and supporting characters from the comics of the last century, we're going to have to get used to them being more reflective of our diverse present world. Perhaps we can be open to the idea that, although someone may not initially match how we personally conceive a character, we can be - and often are - happily surprised."

 

Gunn has his opinion, which IMO is also wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

If you made a remake of Shaft, and cast a white guy as the lead, Gunn would be talking out the other side of his .

 

I can't speak for Gunn, but I would think that Shaft's primary attribute is much more connected to his race than Mary Jane's. It was called blacksploitation after all.

 

Gunn's quote: "That said, I do not believe a character is the color of his or her skin."

 

And to your point, that's the hypocrisy. Whenever it is brought up about changing a black character to white, the answer is always the same: being black is integral to who that character is. You can change a white character to black because, well, being white doesn't matter to the character. Now it's just "as long as the performance is good."

 

I don't believe that, it's insulting to me as a white person, and it's racist.

 

The characters they're color washing in this Spidey movie are characters I've read for 40 years. I've SEEN for 40 years on the pages of my comics. I want them to look as close as they can to those characters, so I can see them come to life. Same as we all want to see the classic costumes on the big screen. Outside of Peter Parker, none of those people will spark recognition in me. They will not be the characters I've read and loved for decades.

 

That said, I know I'm not in anyone's target audience anymore for this kind of thing, and they couldn't care less. But, I can complain on the interwebs if I want, and not give them my money. ;)

 

rantrant over!

 

 

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