General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean

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So you say, but have you shipped these to yourself to find out? Hard experience having had tens of thousands of comics shipped TO me says otherwise. 8.5 x 11 only gives a half inch of protection at the top and bottom of most bagged and boarded books, which simply isn't enough to keep it from any serious impact damage.

I can only go by what my customers tell me and what I've had returned due to damage. As of today I've had 8,249 transactions over the past 12 months and the amount of items returned has been 9 (which doesn't mean specifically returned due to damage). That's fine by me.

The following is merely my experience with packaging that is the same size as the comics themselves, or just lightly larger.

You are leaving no room for error/damage. I had a seller ship me some books once in a box where the comics (bagged with backing boards) fit snugly in the box but with no room for padding. The box got dinged on the corner and that damage was transferred to the comics. Sadly, I had to return the comics for that reason.

As a seller, I always leave room for padding. I find it a necessary and prudent precaution.

So you say, but have you shipped these to yourself to find out? Hard experience having had tens of thousands of comics shipped TO me says otherwise. 8.5 x 11 only gives a half inch of protection at the top and bottom of most bagged and boarded books, which simply isn't enough to keep it from any serious impact damage.

I can only go by what my customers tell me and what I've had returned due to damage. As of today I've had 8,249 transactions over the past 12 months and the amount of items returned has been 9 (which doesn't mean specifically returned due to damage). That's fine by me.

Chip, with all due respect, I don't understand why you would ship this way. Just because you've been lucky so far, doesn't mean your packaging is immune from damage. I suspect there have been more incidents that your customers have simply ignored. I'm also surprised why you would advertise this way of shipping on the Boards. Some of us will not buy from sellers that ship like this.

I use these...about 16.5 cents each and they work just fine.

 

 

 

So you say, but have you shipped these to yourself to find out? Hard experience having had tens of thousands of comics shipped TO me says otherwise. 8.5 x 11 only gives a half inch of protection at the top and bottom of most bagged and boarded books, which simply isn't enough to keep it from any serious impact damage.

 

This is coming from me as a buyer, not me as a seller. 8.5 x 11 boards are simply too small, unless you're using 3-4 of them on each side of the sandwich, to protect the books.

 

I cannot tell you how many tens of thousands of books I've received that were beautiful 9.8 quality books...until they were shipped and crunched in one or more corners.

 

It's very depressing and frustrating to get books that get damaged in shipping.

 

BUT....I will say that condition conscious buyers are a distinct minority, so yes, this kind of shipping damage may not be a concern at all for most of your customers, which may be why it works for you.

 

Interesting anecdote: I ended up standing behind an employee at DC (which is now in Burbank), and she was shipping someone a Dark Knight III. I asked her if she sold comics, and she said she worked for DC. I told her that I was shipping comics. She was about to put the NAKED BOOK in a Flat Rate Priority envelope, which would just about guarantee it would be destroyed when it arrived. Why spend $5.60 shipping a $4 comic, only to have it destroyed? I cringed, but didn't say anything, because: none of my business.

 

But she asked me if it was ok to ship that way, and I first asked her if she was familiar with bags and boards (not an automatic thing for employees of publishers!) and she said yes, and then I recommended making a cardboard sandwich to protect the book.

 

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but she did get out of line and leave the PO with the book unsent.

 

So, who knows? Maybe I saved the life of a comic that day.

 

I think you can get away with that size board, depending what you put it in. I've never personally shipped a comic in an envelope and the boxes I use leave enough room for copious amounts of bubble wrap. Probably not as cost effective as it could be, but I've never had a single complaint.

RMA and I agree on this whole heartedly.(I bet he falls over when he reads this.)

If you want to be a successful seller long term 9x12 cardboard sheets are a must. Multiple sheets provide you with piece of mind and your buyer the fact that you care how your ship your books.

There is no real cost efficient way I wish there was. I am looking at buying an old fashioned cutting board for efficiency improvements. Maybe Vintage can PM me the cost on the cardboard he is getting pre-cut. The best deal I have seen is a company out in CA that will do a 9x12 cut, but the cost is still pretty high.

What has helped sellers is the improvement in 1st class shipping to 1lb. Now if a guy buys a high $$$ book from me and chooses 1st class shipping I feel much safer shipping them now. The PO has to really work to damage my packages now and I have had one return in the last several years and it got beat to hell in one of the corners. (I think it got caught in a routing machine.)

I know sellers that ship 8.5 x 11 and I have had books shipped to me that way and make it fine, but I have had several that did not for all types of reasons. Corner crunches, not securing the books inside, Books actually ripping out of the bags, and bends.

Chip, with all due respect, I don't understand why you would ship this way. Just because you've been lucky so far, doesn't mean your packaging is immune from damage. I suspect there have been more incidents that your customers have simply ignored. I'm also surprised why you would advertise this way of shipping on the Boards. Some of us will not buy from sellers that ship like this.

Well, that's fine. Over the last 36 months I've had over 25,000 transactions with less than 50 returns (not all related to damage).

I'm sorry, but that sample size does NOT illustrate "luck." That means I know what I'm doing. If some people are pickier than my shipping method and don't want to request boxed shipping for more money, then so be it. You can't win 'em all.

What do you guys think about buying under these conditions:

1. Requiring buyer to pay for full value insurance (beyond the flat $50 insurance covered with priority mail)

2. No returns for any reason

3. Insurance claims are on the buyer to submit, manage and deal with.

I've only had to deal with one lost book in the past.

I was the buyer, the seller bought insurance and charged me for it (as we agreed). When the book was lost the seller/shipper initiated the insurance claim since he bought the insurance and because the USPS informed him that investigations start where the book was shipped from, not where it was headed to (which makes sense).

While investigating the seller refunded me 1/2 my payment (we agreed that way we were both equally "out") and that we'd split the insurance if it ever came thru.

Eventually the book was found before they paid out the insurance, and I re-payed the 1/2 that I'd been refunded and all was well but the point being in my experience:

1. the insurance is owned by the buyer of the insurance, who is the shipper

2. the insurance claim and investigation process has to be initiated by the buyer of the insurance, and the investigation is initiated with the shipper.

3. The USPS only works as hard as you push them, and it requires calls from both parties to get any favorable outcome.

so knowing all that, I dont know why a buyer would agree to the seller terms I stated at the beginning, right?

It sounds like the seller is taking zero ownership, zero interest in a lost book. And while I know that is no issue 99% of the time, I would hope a seller would partner with the buyer to resolve/progress an insurance claim, but when a seller is so black and white in their sales conditions it makes me leery.

thoughts?

1. the insurance is owned by the buyer of the insurance, who is the shipper

2. the insurance claim and investigation process has to be initiated by the buyer of the insurance, and the investigation is initiated with the shipper.

3. The USPS only works as hard as you push them, and it requires calls from both parties to get any favorable outcome.

To the best of my knowledge these 3 points above are correct. I would also interpret your first example as the seller abrogating all responsibility.

...I would also interpret your first example as the seller abrogating all responsibility.

that's the way it feels. Like as soon as he's been paid and the book is in the mail hes going to wipe his hard drives, burn his passport, change his name and move to Zimbabwe to begin life under a new identity.

What do you guys think about buying under these conditions:

 

1. Requiring buyer to pay for full value insurance (beyond the flat $50 insurance covered with priority mail)

2. No returns for any reason

3. Insurance claims are on the buyer to submit, manage and deal with.

 

/snip

 

#2&3 in a sales thread means I close the sales thread.

Until the buyer (myself in this situation but I'd feel the same way if I were the seller) is satisfied, ideally by receiving their merchandise but by refund or some other agreed upon method as needed, the seller needs to play an active role in ensuring the transaction is completed.

No returns for any reason is a crock. I understand that Ebay basically forces returns so it's probably in response to that but you have to allow for some returns or you're being unreasonable.

1. the insurance is owned by the buyer of the insurance, who is the shipper

2. the insurance claim and investigation process has to be initiated by the buyer of the insurance, and the investigation is initiated with the shipper.

3. The USPS only works as hard as you push them, and it requires calls from both parties to get any favorable outcome.

 

To the best of my knowledge these 3 points above are correct. I would also interpret your first example as the seller abrogating all responsibility.

I was under the same impression, until I received a damaged marvel omnibus. My local PO gave me the forms to fill out and I included pictures of the damaged item and they gave me the check after investigation. I haven't had to make a claim before or since, but that was what happened in my instance.

1. the insurance is owned by the buyer of the insurance, who is the shipper

2. the insurance claim and investigation process has to be initiated by the buyer of the insurance, and the investigation is initiated with the shipper.

3. The USPS only works as hard as you push them, and it requires calls from both parties to get any favorable outcome.

 

To the best of my knowledge these 3 points above are correct. I would also interpret your first example as the seller abrogating all responsibility.

 

 

I was under the same impression, until I received a damaged marvel omnibus. My local PO gave me the forms to fill out and I included pictures of the damaged item and they gave me the check after investigation. I haven't had to make a claim before or since, but that was what happened in my instance.

That is interesting. So in this case it was you, the buyer, who initiated the claim, is that correct? Was there any role for the seller in this process, or did you do the whole thing solo?

Chip, with all due respect, I don't understand why you would ship this way. Just because you've been lucky so far, doesn't mean your packaging is immune from damage. I suspect there have been more incidents that your customers have simply ignored. I'm also surprised why you would advertise this way of shipping on the Boards. Some of us will not buy from sellers that ship like this.

Well, that's fine. Over the last 36 months I've had over 25,000 transactions with less than 50 returns (not all related to damage).

 

I'm sorry, but that sample size does NOT illustrate "luck." That means I know what I'm doing. If some people are pickier than my shipping method and don't want to request boxed shipping for more money, then so be it. You can't win 'em all.

1. the insurance is owned by the buyer of the insurance, who is the shipper

2. the insurance claim and investigation process has to be initiated by the buyer of the insurance, and the investigation is initiated with the shipper.

3. The USPS only works as hard as you push them, and it requires calls from both parties to get any favorable outcome.

 

To the best of my knowledge these 3 points above are correct. I would also interpret your first example as the seller abrogating all responsibility.

 

 

I was under the same impression, until I received a damaged marvel omnibus. My local PO gave me the forms to fill out and I included pictures of the damaged item and they gave me the check after investigation. I haven't had to make a claim before or since, but that was what happened in my instance.

interesting; how did you show proof of insurance purchased since the shipper bought the insurance?

1. the insurance is owned by the buyer of the insurance, who is the shipper

2. the insurance claim and investigation process has to be initiated by the buyer of the insurance, and the investigation is initiated with the shipper.

3. The USPS only works as hard as you push them, and it requires calls from both parties to get any favorable outcome.

 

To the best of my knowledge these 3 points above are correct. I would also interpret your first example as the seller abrogating all responsibility.

 

 

I was under the same impression, until I received a damaged marvel omnibus. My local PO gave me the forms to fill out and I included pictures of the damaged item and they gave me the check after investigation. I haven't had to make a claim before or since, but that was what happened in my instance.

 

That is interesting. So in this case it was you, the buyer, who initiated the claim, is that correct? Was there any role for the seller in this process, or did you do the whole thing solo?

He sent me a scan of the receipt, although the local PO didn't seem to use it.

The seller was willing to handle it, but I went to my local PO to see what I could get done and to show them the damage to the box and the book itself. That's when the gave me the forms and told me what to do.

It might have been because it was a small claim. Less than $100. They were able to process it locally and within a couple of weeks.

1. the insurance is owned by the buyer of the insurance, who is the shipper

2. the insurance claim and investigation process has to be initiated by the buyer of the insurance, and the investigation is initiated with the shipper.

3. The USPS only works as hard as you push them, and it requires calls from both parties to get any favorable outcome.

 

To the best of my knowledge these 3 points above are correct. I would also interpret your first example as the seller abrogating all responsibility.

 

 

I was under the same impression, until I received a damaged marvel omnibus. My local PO gave me the forms to fill out and I included pictures of the damaged item and they gave me the check after investigation. I haven't had to make a claim before or since, but that was what happened in my instance.

 

interesting; how did you show proof of insurance purchased since the shipper bought the insurance?

It was on the printed label, and the seller sent me a scan of the receipt.

I also opened a claim for a book I bought a couple of years ago. The guy was having surgery and couldn't deal with opening a claim so I did it. They promptly sent me my money for the damaged book.

...I would also interpret your first example as the seller abrogating all responsibility.

 

that's the way it feels. Like as soon as he's been paid and the book is in the mail hes going to wipe his hard drives, burn his passport, change his name and move to Zimbabwe to begin life under a new identity.

I did that once, but it is sooo hot out there.

What do you guys think about buying under these conditions:

 

1. Requiring buyer to pay for full value insurance (beyond the flat $50 insurance covered with priority mail)

2. No returns for any reason

3. Insurance claims are on the buyer to submit, manage and deal with.

 

I've only had to deal with one lost book in the past.

 

I was the buyer, the seller bought insurance and charged me for it (as we agreed). When the book was lost the seller/shipper initiated the insurance claim since he bought the insurance and because the USPS informed him that investigations start where the book was shipped from, not where it was headed to (which makes sense).

 

While investigating the seller refunded me 1/2 my payment (we agreed that way we were both equally "out") and that we'd split the insurance if it ever came thru.

 

Eventually the book was found before they paid out the insurance, and I re-payed the 1/2 that I'd been refunded and all was well but the point being in my experience:

 

1. the insurance is owned by the buyer of the insurance, who is the shipper

2. the insurance claim and investigation process has to be initiated by the buyer of the insurance, and the investigation is initiated with the shipper.

3. The USPS only works as hard as you push them, and it requires calls from both parties to get any favorable outcome.

 

so knowing all that, I dont know why a buyer would agree to the seller terms I stated at the beginning, right?

 

It sounds like the seller is taking zero ownership, zero interest in a lost book. And while I know that is no issue 99% of the time, I would hope a seller would partner with the buyer to resolve/progress an insurance claim, but when a seller is so black and white in their sales conditions it makes me leery.

 

thoughts?

My thought is that I don't want to deal with problem people. If everything works out, I'm sure the seller will be fine. But if there is a glitch, he's using a neon sign to tell you he'll be a problem child.

well it's all moot. On a hunch I asked if the book I was interested in had been pressed, he said yes. I dont really care about pressing or not (especially for this era of book) , but the fact that the book had been pressed, and he hadn't disclosed it in the thread, and it took me asking... well I'd rather not deal with someone like that.