PROBATION DISCUSSIONS

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It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

 

To me this implies that a deal was not reached unless you replied and confirmed.

 

When people ask me "what would you say to $X for this book?" I do not take it as a firm offer and ask them to confirm. When they say " I will give you $X for this book" I take it as a firm offer.

 

If the seller saw that you had read the PM but did not reply he may have assumed you were tire-kicking.

I do definitely see it both ways now. That is why I wanted to chat about it on here because our own feelings about it can be blinding sometimes

Out them and post the pms.

Out them and post the pms.

Instead of summarizing the PMs, just post them and block out the person's name. Make things a lot easier. And it's more efficient for getting to the bottom of this.

Why post the pms?

According to buyer seller requested buyer confirm, potential buyer did not confirm, maybe not in a timely enough fashion. Seller moved on to next buyer.

Lesson for me if I ask buyer to confirm I'll give a time frame to do so. CYA

Not much to see here IMO

What really bothered me the most was that I had no idea another offer was pending.

Seller is actively trying to sell a book to make money.

Being that the book is being offered for sale, it can be assumed that there there are other interested parties, than yourself.

It is not the seller's responsibility to advise a potential buyer that there are other interested parties nor pending offers.

If a seller told me he had other offers, I'd see that as poor salemanship i.e. pushy.

It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

If you had time to log onto this board and read the message and not send a short reply with your mailing address for a shipping qoute and your Paypal address for an invoice. it is reasonable for the seller to assume you had a cavalier attitude toward the deal.

It sounds like the other interested party was quicker to the chase and sent the seller the info as requested.

Granted, I don't know anything about this deal other than what I've read in the last 2 pages of this thread but to call the seller "a bit unethical"...well, that does not seem to fit.

The deal was not finalized, at that point.

The seller decided he would rather sell the book, to whomever got back to him first, on the particulars that the seller requested.

I'm with KPR and MustEatBrains on the take come lesson but beyond that, I don't see what else can be said.

the scenario hurts (missing on a book you wanted at a price you were willing to pay)

but I think the seller didnt do anything wrong since he was looking for response to know the deal was a go (probably so he could cut free the other person)

Likely he got the same (or approximately the same) amount from the other buyer, it was a matter of he wanted to close the deal and complete a transaction asap. the other suitor was able to seal the deal faster, so he won.

should the seller have told you he was working on multiple offers?

well I can be of two minds about that...

1) yes, so I know I need to act fast since there are other interested parties.

2) no, cause more times than not that type of info is used to try and pressure the possible buyer in to either offering more or acting faster. I think him not telling you was actually more honorable, since he could have baited you with the other guys offer and then done the same thing to the other guy.

[end of the story the guy was danged if he did, danged if he didnt apparently!]

 

 

It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

 

If you had time to log onto this board and read the message and not send a short reply with your mailing address for a shipping qoute and your Paypal address for an invoice. it is reasonable for the seller to assume you had a cavalier attitude toward the deal.

 

That's not necessarily a reasonable assumption.

People can get email alerts to PM's, where they can see and read the PM but not respond to it.

It's entirely possible he was able to see the message at a time or place where he was unable to respond.

 

 

It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

 

If you had time to log onto this board and read the message and not send a short reply with your mailing address for a shipping qoute and your Paypal address for an invoice. it is reasonable for the seller to assume you had a cavalier attitude toward the deal.

 

 

 

That's not necessarily a reasonable assumption.

 

People can get email alerts to PM's, where they can see and read the PM but not respond to it.

 

It's entirely possible he was able to see the message at a time or place where he was unable to respond.

 

That was my first thought too. It would still be "unread" on the PM thread though.

But honestly, I wouldn't presume to judge a person's free time even if they did log in to read the message and not respond. I get pulled away from things mid thought all the time. Who knows what the reason is that people don't respond right away?

 

 

It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

 

If you had time to log onto this board and read the message and not send a short reply with your mailing address for a shipping qoute and your Paypal address for an invoice. it is reasonable for the seller to assume you had a cavalier attitude toward the deal.

 

 

 

That's not necessarily a reasonable assumption.

 

People can get email alerts to PM's, where they can see and read the PM but not respond to it.

 

It's entirely possible he was able to see the message at a time or place where he was unable to respond.

 

 

That was my first thought too. It would still be "unread" on the PM thread though.

 

But honestly, I wouldn't presume to judge a person's free time even if they did log in to read the message and not respond. I get pulled away from things mid thought all the time. Who knows what the reason is that people don't respond right away?

Exactly, it's become part of the new age of online commerce, the need..no, the DEMAND..for instant responses, service, gratification.

Look no further than the sales threads we've seen where a seller puts up a few books and if no one buys them within 30 minutes gets angry, and closes the thread in a huff. It's totally unreasonable, but to some people their internal clock (as fast as it may be spinning) is the only clock that exists.

 

 

It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

 

If you had time to log onto this board and read the message and not send a short reply with your mailing address for a shipping qoute and your Paypal address for an invoice. it is reasonable for the seller to assume you had a cavalier attitude toward the deal.

 

 

 

That's not necessarily a reasonable assumption.

 

People can get email alerts to PM's, where they can see and read the PM but not respond to it.

 

It's entirely possible he was able to see the message at a time or place where he was unable to respond.

 

 

That was my first thought too. It would still be "unread" on the PM thread though.

 

But honestly, I wouldn't presume to judge a person's free time even if they did log in to read the message and not respond. I get pulled away from things mid thought all the time. Who knows what the reason is that people don't respond right away?

 

 

Exactly, it's become part of the new age of online commerce, the need..no, the DEMAND..for instant responses, service, gratification.

 

Look no further than the sales threads we've seen where a seller puts up a few books and if no one buys them within 30 minutes gets angry, and closes the thread in a huff. It's totally unreasonable, but to some people their internal clock (as fast as it may be spinning) is the only clock that exists.

so what I'm reading is that he required you to confirm some terms to complete the deal, and you did not do so before he withdrew from the deal. Sooooo a deal never existed, time has been wasted for all.

I can definitely see johnnywadd's point of view.

He thought it was a done deal and missed out on something he was willing to purchase at the negotiated price.

Unfortunately, since the seller stated he wanted a return PM to confirm the deal, that condition then becomes a part of the "contract".

For a contract to exist there must be "an offer, an acceptance, and consideration".

The "offer" made by the seller was to sell the book for a given price IF they received a PM from Johnnywadd confirming the deal.

Since Johnnywadd did not respond before the "offer" was withdrawn, I have to side with the seller.

That being said, I think there are important lessons to be learned here.

1) It would be NICE if a seller wants a PM to confirm, that he give the buyer a certain time limit to respond (and tell the buyer what that time frame is). This is not a must, but would be NICE, all the way around to avoid this problem in the future.

2) Time waits on no one. Sellers are looking to move books. If you really want something, you need to act fast.

Although, I do not think the "seller" did anything wrong, my sympathy goes out to Johnnywadd. There is almost nothing worse than losing out on a deal you think is done and are looking forward to. This is the curse of being a collector.

I can definitely see johnnywadd's point of view.

 

He thought it was a done deal and missed out on something he was willing to purchase at the negotiated price.

 

Unfortunately, since the seller stated he wanted a return PM to confirm the deal, that condition then becomes a part of the "contract".

 

For a contract to exist there must be "an offer, an acceptance, and consideration".

 

The "offer" made by the seller was to sell the book for a given price IF they received a PM from Johnnywadd confirming the deal.

 

Since Johnnywadd did not respond before the "offer" was withdrawn, I have to side with the seller.

 

That being said, I think there are important lessons to be learned here.

 

1) It would be NICE if a seller wants a PM to confirm, that he give the buyer a certain time limit to respond (and tell the buyer what that time frame is). This is not a must, but would be NICE, all the way around to avoid this problem in the future.

 

2) Time waits on no one. Sellers are looking to move books. If you really want something, you need to act fast.

 

Although, I do not think the "seller" did anything wrong, my sympathy goes out to Johnnywadd. There is almost nothing worse than losing out on a deal you think is done and are looking forward to. This is the curse of being a collector.

 

Looking at things from the seller's point of view, I understand why they put an internal timer on things. You want a done deal, not a maybe.

Bad luck is all this is, due to Johnny's work commitments. Sucks, but there's always another book. Out of all the auctions/sales I felt like I've missed out on, it's a very rare thing where I haven't seen the exact same book, or a comparable one, listed very soon after.

 

 

It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

 

If you had time to log onto this board and read the message and not send a short reply with your mailing address for a shipping qoute and your Paypal address for an invoice. it is reasonable for the seller to assume you had a cavalier attitude toward the deal.

 

 

 

That's not necessarily a reasonable assumption.

 

People can get email alerts to PM's, where they can see and read the PM but not respond to it.

 

It's entirely possible he was able to see the message at a time or place where he was unable to respond.

 

 

That was my first thought too. It would still be "unread" on the PM thread though.

 

But honestly, I wouldn't presume to judge a person's free time even if they did log in to read the message and not respond. I get pulled away from things mid thought all the time. Who knows what the reason is that people don't respond right away?

 

 

Exactly, it's become part of the new age of online commerce, the need..no, the DEMAND..for instant responses, service, gratification.

 

Look no further than the sales threads we've seen where a seller puts up a few books and if no one buys them within 30 minutes gets angry, and closes the thread in a huff. It's totally unreasonable, but to some people their internal clock (as fast as it may be spinning) is the only clock that exists.

 

so what I'm reading is that he required you to confirm some terms to complete the deal, and you did not do so before he withdrew from the deal. Sooooo a deal never existed, time has been wasted for all.

 

I don't think he required me to do anything.

I have no sympathy or empathy for the "buyer" on this one. If you can read the PM (and know the buyer will see it as being read) it only takes 2 seconds to tap out a reply with a "ok" "done deal".

So not worthy of even being discussed on a probation thread.

Sour grapes.

I have no sympathy or empathy for the "buyer" on this one. If you can read the PM (and know the buyer will see it as being read) it only takes 2 seconds to tap out a reply with a "ok" "done deal".

 

So not worthy of even being discussed on a probation thread.

 

Sour grapes.

Not that I disagree that the buyer doesn't really have much to complain about here, but there are ways to read a PM that are are not connected to being able to send a reply immediately or directly.

 

 

It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

 

If you had time to log onto this board and read the message and not send a short reply with your mailing address for a shipping qoute and your Paypal address for an invoice. it is reasonable for the seller to assume you had a cavalier attitude toward the deal.

 

 

 

That's not necessarily a reasonable assumption.

 

People can get email alerts to PM's, where they can see and read the PM but not respond to it.

 

It's entirely possible he was able to see the message at a time or place where he was unable to respond.

 

 

That was my first thought too. It would still be "unread" on the PM thread though.

 

But honestly, I wouldn't presume to judge a person's free time even if they did log in to read the message and not respond. I get pulled away from things mid thought all the time. Who knows what the reason is that people don't respond right away?

 

 

Exactly, it's become part of the new age of online commerce, the need..no, the DEMAND..for instant responses, service, gratification.

 

Look no further than the sales threads we've seen where a seller puts up a few books and if no one buys them within 30 minutes gets angry, and closes the thread in a huff. It's totally unreasonable, but to some people their internal clock (as fast as it may be spinning) is the only clock that exists.

And when people bring out the pitchforks before the facts have come to light that also happens here on the boards.

 

 

It started with him asking me what I offered to pay. I offered. He said he'd think about it. Then he pm'd later and said he would accept the offer but that I needed to pm him back to go ahead with everything. I couldn't even though I saw the message. (Work). Then he replied later with the response that he accepted a pending offer instead. Just a bit unethical. Bad timing for me too

 

If you had time to log onto this board and read the message and not send a short reply with your mailing address for a shipping qoute and your Paypal address for an invoice. it is reasonable for the seller to assume you had a cavalier attitude toward the deal.

 

 

 

That's not necessarily a reasonable assumption.

 

People can get email alerts to PM's, where they can see and read the PM but not respond to it.

 

It's entirely possible he was able to see the message at a time or place where he was unable to respond.

 

 

That was my first thought too. It would still be "unread" on the PM thread though.

 

But honestly, I wouldn't presume to judge a person's free time even if they did log in to read the message and not respond. I get pulled away from things mid thought all the time. Who knows what the reason is that people don't respond right away?

 

 

Exactly, it's become part of the new age of online commerce, the need..no, the DEMAND..for instant responses, service, gratification.

 

Look no further than the sales threads we've seen where a seller puts up a few books and if no one buys them within 30 minutes gets angry, and closes the thread in a huff. It's totally unreasonable, but to some people their internal clock (as fast as it may be spinning) is the only clock that exists.

 

 

And when people bring out the pitchforks before the facts have come to light that also happens here on the boards.

Yep, people communicating poorly with each other on a deal always leads to something bad.

I am nominating Swagacorn to the probation list. After agreeing to purchase a book from me on Feb 4th, he told me today he would not be following through with the purchase after he found it cheaper at a local shop.