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New to OA Collecting, Advice, tips?
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1,154 posts in this topic

Definitely not my first purchase :) Just new to the boards and found the information here helpful, as it's reaffirmed some of my current practices and has given me new ones to adhere to.

 

So...show us what you got! :grin:

 

My CAF's in my signature, but it's also quite outdated :) I have a Dell'Otto cover, Adi Granov cover, and a few other large pieces from Michael Cho, Jae Lee, Chris Stevens, and a couple others coming. Once in-hand, I will post. Obviously not much compared to the members here, but I'm happy with it thus far!

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I remember the stock market boom-I watched my stocks jump about $500 a day. When they started to drop I held on-it's just a blip. Those stocks ended up being worth nothing. I should have sold when they reached the peak-22K

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I've always bought what appeals to me without a thought to its resale value. I like the process of art and have "doodles" from Mike Kaluta to more finished pieces, roughs by Kitson of Azrael to published and unpublished covers of Conan, Hulk and twice up art from Thunder Agents (Wood, Adkins, Crandall) and three pen and ink Frazettas done as a joke on horses for a comic artist from the Creepy/Eerie days. Art that I thought was fairly average I paid $10 for and sold for $750 because of historical content (intro to the Champions in SVTU) for example. If you can afford paintings add those to your collection. Its nice to compare an artists early work/influence to current work. I've sold pieces I wish I had back (a Corben prelim painting of Lone Wolf & Cub) and a classic Human Torch vs Submariner page I bought years ago from the Steranko catalog. I agree buy what you like and enjoy the piece. You can always make money on the art if you're not emotionally attached to it. Me, I will not sell most artwork.

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Out of interest, what is people's preference between something that is published vs. unpublished, all other things being equal? To have something original that is out in print or have something that is a complete one off with no other copies of any type out in the world?

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In general, unpublished art (sketches and commissions) sell for less than a published drawing of the same subject and complexity.

 

 

That is right on target.

 

Commissions are generally pursuits of passion and fandom. Sure, some are worth good $ and many go up in value, but if you look time and time again at historical precedent, especially in today's environment where commissions and sketch covers are so prevelent and expensive, if you have $10,000 to spend and spend that same $10k on commissioned art or that same $10k in published art by the same artist, the odds are in 10+ years, the published art will be worth more than the commissions by leaps and bounds, even if the commissions are those sketch covers and CGC graded 9.8. Most art collectors don't fancy the sketch cards and sketch covers so much.

 

However, with some artists like Mark Brooks for example, his commissioned work outsells in $ his published work, but that's in part due to the quality of rendering. So, it's a general statement, not a rule.

 

Personally, I do like if not love commissions, as part of my pursuit to obtain custom artwork made for me personally, as well as the connection with the artist. I'm less interested in buying someone else's commission regardless of rendering quality, at that point I'd pass and either commission my own or buy something published, but that's just my personal preference.

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In general, unpublished art (sketches and commissions) sell for less than a published drawing of the same subject and complexity.

 

 

That is right on target.

 

...

 

Personally, I do like if not love commissions, as part of my pursuit to obtain custom artwork made for me personally, as well as the connection with the artist. I'm less interested in buying someone else's commission regardless of rendering quality, at that point I'd pass and either commission my own or buy something published, but that's just my personal preference.

Right there with you. While it's really nice to work with the artist to get it right, I fully expect that my estate will lose 50% or more on what I get.

 

After all, how many people are going to want a Sugar & Spike cover by Hembeck or Katie Cook or a JLA 29 riff featuring Scott Shaw!'s Captain Carrot, the Zoo Crew, and the Justa Lotta Animals? I like them, but I doubt that they will sell for much.

 

Even my published pieces tend to be "odd," e.g., FCBD cover by CPW3 for Stuff of Legends or three pages from Huck - a good book that I doubt will be a big seller.

 

Buy what you like and can afford! That's my best advice.

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Let me share to you guys my experience recently with a commission that started out great but ended with me losing respect on an artist that i greatly admired back in the '90s.

 

here's the timeline:

 

January 4: Artist and I agreed on a piece. he said "I could do that this week". Price agreed on was $700, down from my initial "dream piece" that would have cost $1,200.

 

In the very same FB conversation I told him about my previous commission that took 9 months to be completed from another artist and how frustrated I was because previous artist didn't give me an exact time or deadline.

 

"Once Paypal is done I'll start cranking...should be finished, barring unforeseen circumstance Friday night-latest next week". << From said artist. January 4 was a Monday.

 

January 11: "sneak peek"? - me

 

January 13: Hello - me again

 

"Hi Reggie! No sneak peeks...:) I have the piece rough penciled ready for finishing, but had to do a rush job for valiant...should be able to get back to the piece tomorrow. " - Artist

 

January 18: I was starting to get worried because no update from said artist. So I sent him a message suggesting that he covers the art in plastic because of the heavy rains in California at that time. This was to elicit a response from him in the least nagging way I know.

 

January 20: any update? - me

 

January 26: Hi Reggie! Sorry. Got super slammed with a deadline...I should have it wrapped up Friday and be able to finish the piece over the weekend...sorry man!!!

 

*took him a week to answer. still keeping my cool. getting anxious already because my $700 is in a strangers pocket already and nothing is getting done.

 

January 27: It's cool. let me know if it's going to take longer. -Me

 

I'm TOTALLY cool with a piece taking a couple of months or even a year to get finished as long as the artist clearly states that it will take that long like with Barry Kitson.

 

January 31: any progress today? - Me

 

hello - me

 

February 8: Out of my frustration I had to write the following message.

 

Remember my earlier message about how another artist left me hanging? It's happening again with you.

 

February 18: Hello. Not cool man. _ Me. this was my last FB message.

 

The payment was sent by Paypal as "a gift/ family" FYI.

 

Email to artist: What's going on, B? If after the weekend you don't get back to me I'll just request for a refund.

 

His response: Reggie,

 

Sorry for all the delays... Over the last few I've partnered with a business friend and we've funded a new Ominous Press, and the time to build and get it all started again has run roughshod over me and everything I've had to do... my apologies. I am carving out a few hours a night to work on finishing your piece... hopefully it'll only take a few nights to finish.

 

So sorry for how unexpectedly long it's taking!

 

 

My response:

 

You let me down. Honestly I've lost interest in the piece already that's why I'm asking for a refund. I felt disrespected when you ignored my messages and email asking for an update. If you read our FB conversation I told you about my experience with another artist. You actually did the same thing to me. I don't want hang on to your promises anymore. I understand that Pro work comes first but you shouldn't treat your paying clients like this.

 

February 19:

 

From Artist B,

 

 

I feel awful... terribly sorry my actions (or inaction) made you feel that way. I haven't been on FB in forever - I tend to stop using FB when I get too busy. I so rarely take commissions anymore - I never rush them, and never will, and unfortunately, the other work often pushes them to a back burner, and that weighs on me. You mentioned an email, I just searched and saw I missed an email you sent on Feb 8th - when I get in slammed mode, I tend to only check my work email/thoughtless, I guess, but IO just try to cut distractions and focus - there is truly no... idk, deceit on anything my part, but I understand your feelings and feel like an .

 

I was/am excited for the piece, and think it's turning out to be very cool.

 

I do sincerely apologize and wish you'd give me another chance to complete the image for you and redeem myself - at least a little - in your eyes. I work very hard on commissions, tend to put much more time into them than most comic work, because I think they should be special for those who have committed to them. That said, you should never feel ignored or disrespected - makes me sick to know you feel I have.

 

 

*From what i understand by this email is he totally forgets the outside world when he's working. IMO that doesn't give you a free pass to ignore your paying customers specially if you have their money already. Fine, apology accepted. But ive made up my mind.

 

My response to that email:

 

B, lets just do the commission some other time when you're not busy. I believe you that the piece would look great, but for now I would opt for the refund.

 

February 21:

 

Will do. I need to get paid and transfer money into my Paypal. Waiting on a payment, not certain when the check arrives, but will update you... supposed to talk to them tomorrow. - artist

 

February 27:

 

B, it has been a week now since your last email. What's up? - me

 

Hi Reggie,

 

I am still waiting for a check. I've been told I would have something this Monday... its been pushed a couple of times now and I'm just nervous it'll be pushed again, holding my breath until I have it in my account. I will update you by end of Monday.

 

- artist

 

B, this exactly why I cancelled my commission. If only you would've kept me updated on what's going on I wouldn't be asking for a refund, man. Now, come Monday if you don't get paid by PayPal can you just send me a personal check? -me

 

Reggie,

 

Sure. So its clear, it won't be good until I get paid in some format.- artist

 

February 29:

 

still no refund.

 

B, what does this have to do with my refund? They don't owe me money. You do.

 

That same day I filed for a dispute. PayPal initially said since sent the money as a gift they doubt that they can help me. A few more clicks by paypal person and she transferred me to payPal Smart connect (paypals credit card service). I told them about my problem, they said they will do an investigation. it might take about 6 days according to them.

 

march 1: I receive an email from paypal saying that they've started the process already.

 

After 30 minutes I get a refund from said artist.

 

 

I just wanted to share to you guys my experience and what I've learned and hopefully you can avoid this situation.

 

1. Pay by payPal using the "pay for goods" option.

2. Set a deadline for the artist and agree on it at the outset that if he does not come through with said deadline that a refund will be asked of him/ her.

3. I think it's just common courtesy now to answer somebody's email or FB in this digital age. and if you ignore someone trying to get a hold of you you're just being a punk.

4. In dealing with your favorite artist, be prepared to be disappointed.

 

I left out the artist name because i'm unsure if it's proper or not to post his name here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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"Once Paypal is done I'll start cranking...should be finished, barring unforeseen circumstance Friday night-latest next week". << From said artist. January 4 was a Monday.

A lot of us have gone through this, and those that produce art have been on the other side too. I pulled that one sentence to quote because: this is the artist telling you how it will be if nothing comes up all week, including really good episodes of his favorite tv show or a hot new release blu-ray with tons of extra featues. No friends dropping by, no magic deadlines moving up two weeks, no fights with the wife/girlfriend, no other commissioners (offering to pay double to move up the list!), etc etc. One week for $700 is timed to perfection. Which is not real. That's the artist's mistake, not knowing himself and reality and backing the thing out by a month or two, always, allowing that cushion. "Barring unforeseen circumstances" is sort of a clue though...he knows but hates telling you something you don't want to hear (..."two months? Fergit it!")

 

How to fix this?

 

Short of using escrow service, even half upfront puts you at risk. And if there is not a real deadline (like it's the illo for wedding invites or something like that), does it matter? One week, one month, three months? Really? Get past six months and it's a 'real' problem in my book. Not that you shouldn't get a quote for a real time within 15% of reality, just not sure what the big difference is a week, several weeks, coupla months?

 

So the fix, I think, is to build the penalty in upfront, in writing. This way everybody is clear and no games later. You agree on the terms of the commission, and then set the penalty at either a discount or upgrade to a higher level commission (quality, media, size or all). And set the dates (from payment), all of 'em, in stone. You want prelims, then set a few dates for that and whatever else mid-process you're wanting to see. Same as you'd run a project at your job (and if you don't, start practicing, do this in all facets of your life personal and professional...you'll be amazed how a higher level of organization/accountability gets you more respect, promotions, raises/bonuses and marital harmony!) As calendar or business days. Etc. That's the e-mail agreement you want for PayPal and small claims court (if it comes to that). That's the e-mails you can post publicly. UCC allows up to 30 days (last I checked) for shipment of goods from payment date or agreed date (if more than 30 days), unless a new date is set and agreed upon by both parties before then. Paying by friends/family...you can still do this (so the recipient gets no fees) by funding with a credit card. This preserves your charge-back capability, it's just that you "pay" for that protection instead of the recipient.

 

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3. I think it's just common courtesy now to answer somebody's email or FB in this digital age. and if you ignore someone trying to get a hold of you you're just being a punk.

Ah just realized I wanted to pull this out too. Sorry, disagree with you here. Creativity requires shutting out external noise. That very much includes the stuff you mention. And pestering will get you nowhere except alienating that artist further. The mistakes made were earlier in the process: not setting dates/accountability/penalties. Do that right, no need to pester, no need to draw the artist back into the real world to reply, the results (or lack of) speak for themselves.

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How to fix this?

 

So the fix, I think, is to build the penalty in upfront, in writing. This way everybody is clear and no games later. You agree on the terms of the commission, and then set the penalty at either a discount or upgrade to a higher level commission (quality, media, size or all). And set the dates (from payment), all of 'em, in stone. You want prelims, then set a few dates for that and whatever else mid-process you're wanting to see. Same as you'd run a project at your job (and if you don't, start practicing, do this in all facets of your life personal and professional...you'll be amazed how a higher level of organization/accountability gets you more respect, promotions, raises/bonuses and marital harmony!) As calendar or business days. Etc. That's the e-mail agreement you want for PayPal and small claims court (if it comes to that). That's the e-mails you can post publicly. UCC allows up to 30 days (last I checked) for shipment of goods from payment date or agreed date (if more than 30 days), unless a new date is set and agreed upon by both parties before then. Paying by friends/family...you can still do this (so the recipient gets no fees) by funding with a credit card. This preserves your charge-back capability, it's just that you "pay" for that protection instead of the recipient.

 

I do think pre-lims and such are worth agreeing to, but a penalty for being late may just cause it to be later.

 

Perhaps, a bonus for being early?

 

 

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I do think pre-lims and such are worth agreeing to, but a penalty for being late may just cause it to be later.

 

Perhaps, a bonus for being early?

 

Nothing wrong with a bonus for early, but no penalty = no accountability. I'm not talking days (the commissioner can make deadlines soft and/or waive anything they want, of course) but the big drags and nevers (Sienkiewicz et al). Nothing in between leaves small claims court as the only recourse. But legal should be a last resort, nobody wants this! I think putting some lesser penalty terms in at the beginning makes it more likely the nuclear option need not be threatened/exercised...

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In late February of 2016, I received two commissions-- one a 11"x17, the other a sketch cover--from the same artist. I commissioned the 11x17 in August of 2014 and the sketch cover in March 2015. So yeah, one took 18 months and the other 11 months. I received a third commission from the same artist earlier that took roughly a year.

 

The cost of these commissions were below market rate and he was doing them as a favor to a new "fan." Since he is a regular of the local con circuit, I'd see him at his table and he'd show me a pencil rough or some progress which kept my impatience at bay. Every once in a while he'd email me a scan of his progress. Nonetheless, there was a point where I just said to myself, "Screw it. If he follows through, great. If he doesn't, oh well. I don't have a lot of money at stake anyway."

 

The lesson I learned is to simply stay away from at-home commissions. Best to buy ready-made published art or something that was already done before hand. Or get the quality convention sketch while at the convention. But there are some exceptions.

 

If you're going to get a commissions, I think these are good signs to look for:

1) Artist makes a specific announcement that she or he is accepting commissions in between gigs. This shows a priority, but I would still be flexible with the deadline they give you.

2) An artist announces they have spots open for commissions to be completed before and picked up during a major comic-con they plan to attend.

3) You go through their art rep, if they have one. This way you have another person who holds them accountable.

 

I've never had an artist that I've commissioned meet a deadline. "I can get it done in a month" likely means six months. What I do ask them is "Can I check in once a month for the progress?" And they are usually okay with that without feeling badgered. And if you're lucky enough to live in a region that holds lots of comic cons like me, you can ask, "Hey, I noticed you're scheduled to appear at such-and-such con. Do you think you can finish the piece by then?" That usually works.

 

I'm glad this issue was brought up. It can alleviate a lot of frustration for newbies. I think everyone who has commissioned artists has had less-than-ideal experiences. I recently spoke to a guy at a con who told me he stopped buying comic art one year and just started collecting on the commissions from ONE OR TWO years prior, and it was like he never stopped buying art.

 

And ultimately, I was happy with the quality of the commissions from the aforementioned artist.

 

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Hey there, so I went to a website that is selling a piece that I am interested in but they have two version of the same piece, a pencil ver. (By the actual artist) and a inked ver (by the inkier who inked it on a separate board. . My question is what would be better to own, the pencil version or the inked version?

If you can afford to buy both the pencils and inks, I would do that. My personal preference, if I can't get both, is to get the finished version (i.e. the inked page). Inkers embellish and flesh out details that you may not see in the pencils.

 

I have both a pencils only page by Butch Guice and a final inked page by Brian Thies from their run on Winter Soldier. Butch's pencils are detailed for sure, but the inking by Brian adds something to the pencils that I feel brings them alive.

 

Butch's Pencils

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1091754

 

Brian's Inks

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1160722

 

I have a few piece,s in my collection, that are just inks over blue lined pencils. Joe Quesada draws primarily digitally these days, and whoever is his inker on that job, inks over the digital drawing printed out onto an art board. The inked art is the only physical copy of the art in this case.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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Hey guy's I have another question, I know there is a WTB (Want to Buy) section here but is there a (Looking For) section?

 

err.. whats the difference between Looking for and want to buy? you are just looking for the page but you actually don't want to buy it?

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Sorry about that, well If I am looking for a piece and if someone has it and the price is reasonable then yeah I would buy it. But if it's a bit out of my price range well I can at least have the sellers information and make contact, so I can buy the piece later down the line.

I hope this make sense.

 

Thanks for the info Terry Doyle :D

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