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Do any other publishers do "Linewide Variant" like Valiant?
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We've been talking about Valiant's "linewide variant" on the ValiantFans.com message board and I realized that I don't know if other publishers do those.

 

Valiant does regular ratio 1:10, 1:20, etc., variants for a single book. Those are just like every other publisher.

Valiant also does "linewide variant" ratio (1:100, 1:150, etc.) which is calculated for "all Valiant books sold that month", a ratio for the total copies for all Valiant titles.

 

Retailers appear to be pricing these books at the standard ratios $10 for 1:10, $20 for 1:20... and around $100 for the 1:100 linewide variant. But let's do the math...

 

Valiant has 8 or 9 titles per month. They all sell similar numbers (around 7,000 to 9,000 copies) and there's usually one title that's the featured title that month. That featured book will probably sell 12,000+ and be the 1:100 linewide book.

 

So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Retailers are charging around $10 for one of the 1,200 copies that is a 1:10 variant.

Retailers are charging around $20 for one of the 600 copies that is a 1:20 variant.

Retailers are charging around $100 for one of the 700 copies that is a 1:100 linewide variant.

Same book, different covers... but look at those prices!

 

Do no other publishers do linewide variants? Do retailers hope variant buyers have a lot of money and no math skills?

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I've never seen them advertised like this to the buying public.

Interesting. hm

 

Here's an example from Previews:

 

br10previews.png

 

 

Valiant will likely sell 70,000 copies of books from NOV15 titles (released in January 2016).

Bloodshot Reborn #10 1:100 linewide variant will likely be around 700 copies.

 

If the sales of Bloodshot Reborn #10 covers total about 12,500 copies...

Bloodshot Reborn #10 1:20 variant would be 625 copies.

Bloodshot Reborn #10 1:50 variant would be around 250 copies.

 

This book just came out on Wednesday.

Dealers who sell on Ebay have the 1:20 for about $20 (around 625 copies),

the 1:50 for about $50 (around 250 copies),

and the 1:100 linewide for about $100 (around 700 copies).

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So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Where do these numbers come from?

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So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Where do these numbers come from?

I imagine they're estimates based on actual Comichron numbers for recent issues.

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IMO this makes the variants less valuable. Ordering 100 copies of Bloodshot is not something most shops will do. Ordering 100 total of Valiant titles more shops will be able to do.

 

I was wondering why there were so many copies popping up online. I probably wouldn't have bought one had I known this.

Was the Harbinger Lemire the same incentive?

Edited by ygogolak
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IMO this makes the variants less valuable. Ordering 100 copies of Bloodshot is not something most shops will do. Ordering 100 total of Valiant titles more shops will be able to do.

 

I was wondering why there were so many copies popping up online. I probably wouldn't have bought one had I know this.

Was the Harbinger Lemire the same incentive?

That one was a 1:125 linewide, but I think there were only 5 titles being published at the time.

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So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Where do these numbers come from?

I imagine they're estimates based on actual Comichron numbers for recent issues.

Yes, the monthly numbers come from Comichron.

The incentive ratios come from Previews.

The straight calculation is done because Dinesh said they print all the ratio books. (As opposed to seeing how many stores qualify, the ratios are printed to the full amount.)

 

Additional copies are printed for the gold logo program. Those extras are given out free at conventions or for visitors to Valiant HQ.

 

In 2012, all Valiant books had at least 1,000 copies. However, Valiant stopped printing a full 1,000 on all books soon after that... printing non-gold variants to match the incentive ratios (plus overhead for damages).

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So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Where do these numbers come from?

I imagine they're estimates based on actual Comichron numbers for recent issues.

Yes, the monthly numbers come from Comichron.

The incentive ratios come from Previews.

The straight calculation is done because Dinesh said they print all the ratio books. (As opposed to seeing how many stores qualify, the ratios are printed to the full amount.)

 

Additional copies are printed for the gold logo program. Those extras are given out free at conventions or for visitors to Valiant HQ.

 

In 2012, all Valiant books had at least 1,000 copies. However, Valiant stopped printing a full 1,000 on all books soon after that... printing non-gold variants to match the incentive ratios (plus overhead for damages).

 

Did he say how many stores actually qualify?

 

I wish I could sell more Valiant, but as a small store, it just hasn't caught on (though Divinity did pretty well for me). Maybe in large markets, it does much better. It still would surprise me, if 700 stores qualify for 1:100, as that would be a little over 1/4th of the Diamond accounts...well, Mile High and Midtown and MYCS probably qualify for a couple each...

 

One thing I'lll say for Valiant, they sure put their money where their mouth is - some of their incentive/return programs have been really great - as an example, the recent Book of Death program, that based upon ordering a certain amount for your stores minimum Diamond ranking, you could get it at 80% off and full returnability. I'll do that all day long.

It didn't help sell it for ME unfortunately, but I'll always be willing to work with a publisher to TRY when they're that invested in it.

 

I suspect those variants command those prices because they are (if what Dinesh says is true), in smaller quantity than the large publishers' variants are.

 

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Valiant has several books that are a great read, so it might sell well as discounted trade paperbacks to get customers started/hooked.

 

The first trades of on-going series are $9.99 and usually discounted for retailers, so those are likely the best way to get a taste test.

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Valiant has several books that are a great read, so it might sell well as discounted trade paperbacks to get customers started/hooked.

 

The first trades of on-going series are $9.99 and usually discounted for retailers, so those are likely the best way to get a taste test.

 

Yeah on the trades, that's a great program too!

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Look how long it took for Image to shake off their 1990's glut stigma. For the general comic buying public, Valiant is going to need a little bit longer to get rid of theirs

That's true. Not even Walking Dead was getting much attention before the show.

Invincible is a book that's really well done for 10+ years without a large readership.

But I don't know many who "blame" Image anymore for the number of Youngblood and Brigade books still in bargain boxes. lol

 

It would be surprising if Image is able to shake the 1990s "blame" with continually late books (as always), but Valiant doesn't eventually get credit for quality books and on-time delivery (40+ months and counting).

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So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Where do these numbers come from?

I imagine they're estimates based on actual Comichron numbers for recent issues.

Yes, the monthly numbers come from Comichron.

The incentive ratios come from Previews.

 

Not those numbers. :)

 

The straight calculation is done because Dinesh said they print all the ratio books. (As opposed to seeing how many stores qualify, the ratios are printed to the full amount.)

 

THOSE numbers. :D

 

It would be interesting to see if VEI would be willing to confirm that information. Not that I doubt either you OR Dino (is it passé to call him Dino anymore...? I'm so 2005) but as you know, DC and Marvel don't release these numbers, and, of course, we also know that neither DC nor Marvel prints to their ratios (because of the occasional sale of these books that Diamond puts together for retailer accounts.)

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So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Where do these numbers come from?

I imagine they're estimates based on actual Comichron numbers for recent issues.

Yes, the monthly numbers come from Comichron.

The incentive ratios come from Previews.

 

Not those numbers. :)

 

The straight calculation is done because Dinesh said they print all the ratio books. (As opposed to seeing how many stores qualify, the ratios are printed to the full amount.)

 

THOSE numbers. :D

 

It would be interesting to see if VEI would be willing to confirm that information. Not that I doubt either you OR Dino (is it passé to call him Dino anymore...? I'm so 2005) but as you know, DC and Marvel don't release these numbers, and, of course, we also know that neither DC nor Marvel prints to their ratios (because of the occasional sale of these books that Diamond puts together for retailer accounts.)

 

I believe that is what Greg is saying and that Dino has confirmed: VEI claims to actually print the number the ratios indicate they do, unlike Marvel/DC.

 

This recently came up with one of the Divinity (I think, maybe Harbinger Wars) Variants, where Dino confirmed they actually only printed like 350 of them.

 

That does not put them all in the hands of shops. For example, half the print run may have gone to shops that did not qualify, which would leave VEI with half of the 350 undistributed. So it is not entirely unlike Marvel/DC.

 

 

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So, the entire Valiant line is around 70,000 copies in a month. There would be 700 copies of the 1:100 linewide variant. The 1:10 single issue variant is going to be 1:10 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 1,200 copies. The 1:20 single issue variant is going to be 1:20 on the 12,000 copies sold. That's 600 copies. The books are identical (inside) except for the different covers.

 

Where do these numbers come from?

I imagine they're estimates based on actual Comichron numbers for recent issues.

Yes, the monthly numbers come from Comichron.

The incentive ratios come from Previews.

 

Not those numbers. :)

 

The straight calculation is done because Dinesh said they print all the ratio books. (As opposed to seeing how many stores qualify, the ratios are printed to the full amount.)

 

THOSE numbers. :D

 

It would be interesting to see if VEI would be willing to confirm that information. Not that I doubt either you OR Dino (is it passé to call him Dino anymore...? I'm so 2005) but as you know, DC and Marvel don't release these numbers, and, of course, we also know that neither DC nor Marvel prints to their ratios (because of the occasional sale of these books that Diamond puts together for retailer accounts.)

 

I believe that is what Greg is saying and that Dino has confirmed: VEI claims to actually print the number the ratios indicate they do, unlike Marvel/DC.

 

This recently came up with one of the Divinity (I think, maybe Harbinger Wars) Variants, where Dino confirmed they actually only printed like 350 of them.

 

That does not put them all in the hands of shops. For example, half the print run may have gone to shops that did not qualify, which would leave VEI with half of the 350 undistributed. So it is not entirely unlike Marvel/DC.

 

 

Thanks, Chris. As you know, Marvel and DC's incentive ratios are distribution numbers, rather than print numbers, so if Marvel prints 75,000 copies of a regular book, they don't (necessarily) print 750 copies of a 1:100 of that book plus 5-10% for damage, but rather an internal number that Marvel/DC come up with that they don't make public.

 

We know this because 1. Diamond and Marvel/DC already know how many stores qualify for any particular variant by the FOC, so they know exactly how many they need to cover the program (which is always a lower number than the actual ratio of regular to incentives would dictate), and 2. Diamond has regularly sold leftover ratio'd books in numbers far in excess of the original ratios, especially considering that a good portion of those regular copies ordered weren't enough to meet the requirements. That is, they have 1600 copies of a "1:100" book that the regular edition only sold 47,000 copies of, and for which only 374 retailers qualified to order.

 

In other words, they aren't tying the print run to the amount of qualifying orders.

 

If Valiant ties the print runs of the ratio'd incentives directly to the print run of the regular copies, that would be different than any other publisher is currently doing. Rather interesting, too.

 

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Are we still trying to float the nonsensical notion that Marvel and DC deliberately over print incentive variants that they have no intention of distributing based solely on the fact that they sell off their scant overages on a tiny microscopic percentage of their variants once in a blue moon?

(shrug)

 

That is nothing but baseless speculation constantly floated as "fact" by a select few who have been exposed as having some kind of "problem" with variants in general and incentive variants specifically.

 

Do Marvel and DC divulge the print runs of specific variants ?

 

Nope.

 

Do they print comic books that they have no intention of distributing and for the sole purpose of storing in a warehouse until the day they decide to sell them for below cover price two years later?

 

Nope.

 

Let's not be silly.

 

-J.

 

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Are we still trying to float the nonsensical notion that Marvel and DC deliberately over print incentive variants that they have no intention of distributing based solely on the fact that they sell off their scant overages on a tiny microscopic percentage of their variants once in a blue moon?

(shrug)

 

That is nothing but baseless speculation constantly floated as "fact" by a select few who have been exposed as having some kind of "problem" with variants in general and incentive variants specifically.

 

Do Marvel and DC divulge the print runs of specific variants ?

 

Nope.

 

Do they print comic books that they have no intention of distributing and for the sole purpose of storing in a warehouse until the day they decide to sell them for below cover price two years later?

 

Nope.

 

Let's not be silly.

 

-J.

 

You are mistaken, on multiple levels, all of which have exhaustively been detailed many times, in many threads.

 

Please don't derail another thread with your caustic posts.

 

Thank you.

 

 

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Are we still trying to float the nonsensical notion that Marvel and DC deliberately over print incentive variants that they have no intention of distributing based solely on the fact that they sell off their scant overages on a tiny microscopic percentage of their variants once in a blue moon?

(shrug)

 

That is nothing but baseless speculation constantly floated as "fact" by a select few who have been exposed as having some kind of "problem" with variants in general and incentive variants specifically.

 

Do Marvel and DC divulge the print runs of specific variants ?

 

Nope.

 

Do they print comic books that they have no intention of distributing and for the sole purpose of storing in a warehouse until the day they decide to sell them for below cover price two years later?

 

Nope.

 

Let's not be silly.

 

-J.

 

You are mistaken, on multiple levels, all of which have exhaustively been detailed many times, in many threads.

 

Please don't derail another thread with your caustic posts.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Actually no, that hasn't been done at all.

 

Yourself, and one or two others are very skilled at disguising your opinions as "settled fact". You speak in broad, sweeping absolutes yet can never cite more than one or two of the same isolated anecdotes or outliers to buttress your opinions. While it is a clever debate tactic, it is fraught with potholes and is easily defeated.

 

So let me drop some actual facts on you and clear up a few myths:

 

I have heard from multiple dealers and Diamond account holders over the last few months that have shed a lot of light on why a few incentive variants trickle out into Diamond fire sales and 5 packs every now and then.

 

According to them, Marvel/DC print books by the case for distribution. Each case holds 200/225 copies. Let's say for an example that a book is offered with a variant and say 610 retailers qualify for one copy AND order the variant. Marvel will print 675 copies (enough for three full cases to cover the order and this amount would also be enough to cover any overages for printing snafus, etc.). Marvel will not print less than enough to fill one full case. So in this instance we have 65 "extra copies" of this particular variant ultimately sitting around somewhere. Perhaps they are given away to employees or creators if it's a "hot release". Perhaps they are given away to retailers who didn't even necessarily qualify for it or order it at release who were shorted on a prior order as a "make good". Perhaps they will end up in a five pack. Perhaps they are given out at conventions. Or perhaps they are actually stored in a warehouse somewhere until the day comes that Marvel decides that they have enough of these printing overages on numerous books sitting stacked up to blow them out in a fire sale.

 

All of this easily explains why "some" variants do turn up from time to time after a book's release. It also explains why this is a very sporadic occurrence and why these RI variants are only blown out only once in a very blue moon.

 

But under no circumstance in the above scenario is the publisher printing the RI variant "by the thousands" to only fill a 610 copy order. That is simply a preposterous notion on its face.

 

Hope that clears things up a little. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

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