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General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean
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35,148 posts in this topic

Well hm I was in a couple of days ago, made exactly two posts, one in the Want To Buy section and one in the advertising section. The one in the Want To Buy section was a little odd because I was using it to try to find a person to work with as opposed to finding a book. It got deleted, as it should have, because in retrospect it goes against the point of the Want To Buy section. A little while later, I was locked out of the boards altogether and figured out that I had gotten a strike. Since it was my first one I thought I'd have to wait until Monday to find out what had happened. Just so happens, I was closing down browser windows and when I clicked on the one for the boards it refreshed and showed I had a PM. Turns out I wasn't on strike anymore...and I had a PM from a mod, he says that the reason I got the strike wasn't for my Want To Buy post but because I was selling mystery boxes...Arch had told me a long time ago that advertising a web site is fine such as in signature line etc...so I didn't think it was that much of a stretch to put a web site link up in the advertising section which still hasn't been deleted so I'm not sure exactly what happened. The web site in question was launched with boxes similar to my mystery box formula but it will eventually feature other items as well as soon as this weekend. In case anyone was wondering what exactly happened...NO I did not start a mystery box sales thread on the boards.

Edited by comicalgems
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So you got a strike because you advertised a website selling mystery boxes? And you advertised it in the website/dealer announcement Forum?

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So you got a strike because you advertised a website selling mystery boxes? And you advertised it in the website/dealer announcement Forum?
u

 

I think so?

 

I'd ask why right here:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8183822#Post8183822

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Just a bug bear that I come across too often.

 

Why no returns on slabbed books?

 

" ... because of third party grading" is not a reason. It's pretty much like saying you can't return a graded book because it is a graded book.

 

If I look at a slab at a convention and I don't think its a good example of the grade or, on closer look, has a defect that I don't want on a book in my collection, I put it back in the bin.

 

Why I am not granted the same collector's courtesy when buying long distance?

 

The "no return on CGC books" strikes me as a way to avoid returns and to avoid standing behind what you are selling (or in the worst case scenario, moving a "gift grade").

 

We all understand the individual nature of collecting and unless the Pope joins the CGC grading team, they're not infallible.

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Just a bug bear that I come across too often.

 

Why no returns on slabbed books?

 

" ... because of third party grading" is not a reason. It's pretty much like saying you can't return a graded book because it is a graded book.

 

If I look at a slab at a convention and I don't think its a good example of the grade or, on closer look, has a defect that I don't want on a book in my collection, I put it back in the bin.

 

Why I am not granted the same collector's courtesy when buying long distance?

 

The "no return on CGC books" strikes me as a way to avoid returns and to avoid standing behind what you are selling (or in the worst case scenario, moving a "gift grade").

 

We all understand the individual nature of collecting and unless the Pope joins the CGC grading team, they're not infallible.

 

I do this, although if a buyer complained I would consider a return.

 

For me it is two things: returns are often due to disagreements over grade and this is eliminated with the CGC grade...yes you may not agree but what is being sold is much less subjective with a CGC grade. But it is also due to the higher volatility in the market and greater variability in prices of slabs; I do not want to worry about changes in GPA after the sale contributing to buyer's remorse. Slabs are a different game than raws, and I think the different return policy makes sense, even if it is not a rigid position for me.

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shouldn't the scans provide enough info to make that decision?

 

If its serious money the grader's notes are also necessary, many defects do not show up in scans of slabs, due to the inner sleeve and the outer casing cloaking and distorting the surface image of the book.

 

Granted this has nothing to do with the question of a return policy. If a seller states no returns on slabs, and that is clear, than it is buyer beware, and if big money is involved further inquiries can be made before purchasing. 2c

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Just a bug bear that I come across too often.

 

Why no returns on slabbed books?

 

" ... because of third party grading" is not a reason. It's pretty much like saying you can't return a graded book because it is a graded book.

 

If I look at a slab at a convention and I don't think its a good example of the grade or, on closer look, has a defect that I don't want on a book in my collection, I put it back in the bin.

 

Why I am not granted the same collector's courtesy when buying long distance?

 

The "no return on CGC books" strikes me as a way to avoid returns and to avoid standing behind what you are selling (or in the worst case scenario, moving a "gift grade").

 

We all understand the individual nature of collecting and unless the Pope joins the CGC grading team, they're not infallible.

 

Because when you pick a book up, look at it, and put it down at a convention it doesn't cost the seller anything.

 

When you buy a CGC book through the mail and decide it doesn't meet your criteria, unless you're offering to pay shipping both ways, the seller is going to be out shipping costs at least one way, which is going to be about $12 minimum.

 

The two scenarios are not analogous.

 

The simple retort to your question is why can't the buyer simply ask questions before the purchase to sufficiently determine whether the book will satisfy their criteria so they don't have resort to a return.

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" ... because of third party grading" is not a reason. It's pretty much like saying you can't return a graded book because it is a graded book.

 

Actually, it is a reason.

 

There was a thread started in CG awhile back that asked the question: Would CGC issue a refund if the submitter disagreed with CGC's grades?

 

The answer was a nearly unanimous, resounding "no".

 

Therefore, it's generally understood and accepted within the comic coloecting community that CGC refuses to accept financial responsibility for their grades and none of their customers - submitters or purchasers of slabbed books - expect them to be responsible.

 

So the the argument could reasonably be made that when you buy a CGC graded comic you're buying into the concept that the entity who graded the book isn't responsible for the grade.

 

And since the seller went through the expense, time and risk of having the book grade (probably for, among other reasons, to avoid debates about the grade) I can understand why the seller would be hesitant to accept a responsibility that CGC has flat-out denied, even CGC is the one who graded the book.

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" ... because of third party grading" is not a reason. It's pretty much like saying you can't return a graded book because it is a graded book.

 

So the the argument could reasonably be made that when you buy a CGC graded comic you're buying into the concept that the entity who graded the book isn't responsible for the grade.

 

Doesn't this support my position? :baiting:

 

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" ... because of third party grading" is not a reason. It's pretty much like saying you can't return a graded book because it is a graded book.

 

So the the argument could reasonably be made that when you buy a CGC graded comic you're buying into the concept that the entity who graded the book isn't responsible for the grade.

 

Doesn't this support my position? :baiting:

 

The argument can be made that notwithstanding CGC assumes no responsibility for the grade the seller of the book, as a new party to the sale, is still responsible to some degree for their own customers' satisfaction.

 

That still leaves, however, each individual seller to decide for themselves what they are and are not prepared to guarantee.

 

I would think if a seller said "I accept returns on CGC books but buyer pays for return postage in all cases accept material damage" that would probably discourage frivolous returns. That said, a seller not accepting returns on CGC books is as viable an option as not accepting returns on raw books, and the impact will be determined just the same by the market response.

 

The fact is the market response will be harsher on the seller in the case of raws than it will of slabs.

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So you got a strike because you advertised a website selling mystery boxes? And you advertised it in the website/dealer announcement Forum?
u

 

I think so?

 

Clearly the mods doesn't want links to items for sale if those items can't be sold here.

 

Does this mean that dealers who post their websites via link in their posts... specifically those dealers/websites that also sell "other" 3rd party graded comics... will all get wrist slaps as well ? hm

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So you got a strike because you advertised a website selling mystery boxes? And you advertised it in the website/dealer announcement Forum?
u

 

I think so?

 

Clearly the mods doesn't want links to items for sale if those items can't be sold here.

 

I believe the thread is still there.

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I will tell you as a person who works for a retail store that refuses returns…

 

I sell appliances…they are big and cost a lot of money to ship or deliver. When you come into our store and buy one, there is a certain amount of expectation that the retail employees know what they are talking about and what they are doing, just like there is an expectation that the customer knows what they are looking for and what would fit their needs best.

 

If you buy a refrigerator from me and it comes damaged, you can get either a credit, a new one, or a complete refund as long as that decision is made before the delivery team leaves your house. Once they leave, it is yours. If it does not work, we send a service guy out and if he says it needs to replaced, then we replace it. But if you simply do not like it, there are no returns. We expect that since this will be your appliance, you will make sure you like it before you buy it, and you research it (the model number is on the receipt) before it gets delivered.

 

I had a customer try to return a dryer because the inside does not light up while it is running. At no point in our interaction did she ask about this or say it is a need. I told her no. If this is an issue for you, you need to ask about it. I can tell you things like how long it will take to dry and what is the spin speed…but something as picky as a light on the inside? You have to ask!

 

In comparison…if you are interested in buying my comic. I will provide the best images I can of the slab. Therefore you can see if it has a bad wrap or the cover is misaligned. Otherwise, you know you are buying a 9.4 and you can expect a 9.4 according to CGC. I did not grade it, and I am not responsible for the CGC's grade. Plus you can clearly see the grade before buying it. There is no reason for a return on the slab (except for damage upon delivery) if proper pictures have been provided. If there is a small CBC, then it is understood that it is possible on a 9.4. If you do not like CBCs, then don't buy a 9.4….get a 9.6 or higher...

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I will tell you as a person who works for a retail store that refuses returns…

 

I sell appliances…they are big and cost a lot of money to ship or deliver. When you come into our store and buy one, there is a certain amount of expectation that the retail employees know what they are talking about and what they are doing, just like there is an expectation that the customer knows what they are looking for and what would fit their needs best.

 

If you buy a refrigerator from me and it comes damaged, you can get either a credit, a new one, or a complete refund as long as that decision is made before the delivery team leaves your house. Once they leave, it is yours. If it does not work, we send a service guy out and if he says it needs to replaced, then we replace it. But if you simply do not like it, there are no returns. We expect that since this will be your appliance, you will make sure you like it before you buy it, and you research it (the model number is on the receipt) before it gets delivered.

 

I had a customer try to return a dryer because the inside does not light up while it is running. At no point in our interaction did she ask about this or say it is a need. I told her no. If this is an issue for you, you need to ask about it. I can tell you things like how long it will take to dry and what is the spin speed…but something as picky as a light on the inside? You have to ask!

 

In comparison…if you are interested in buying my comic. I will provide the best images I can of the slab. Therefore you can see if it has a bad wrap or the cover is misaligned. Otherwise, you know you are buying a 9.4 and you can expect a 9.4 according to CGC. I did not grade it, and I am not responsible for the CGC's grade. Plus you can clearly see the grade before buying it. There is no reason for a return on the slab (except for damage upon delivery) if proper pictures have been provided. If there is a small CBC, then it is understood that it is possible on a 9.4. If you do not like CBCs, then don't buy a 9.4….get a 9.6 or higher...

Small company or a large one you work for? Like sears?

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