All things Valiant.

0

Like many, I didn't collect Valiant until Unity 0.

Even though, ironically, my first ever issue of Previews listed Magnus 1 as a "Gem of the Month" _and_ when it came out, my LCS flagged Magnus 1 as their "favorite book of the month."

I flipped through it & put it back -- I liked superhero, and this was sci-fi, more akin to Buck Rogers or Star Trek.

Fast forward to Unity 0 & insanity. I went away to summer camp for 6 weeks and when I came back had to pay $8 for Unity 1 (regular).

Fast forward a few years to 1997, I'm a freshman in college & Shadowman (vol. 2) # 1 is my favorite book of the year. Why? Garth Ennis.

Zero, a stonecold psychopath, walks into a bar, tells the bartender "bear" & the bartender pours him his usual drink & brings out the teddy bear he keeps at the bar. WTF?

The point -- Valiant was a large part of my comic collecting childhood, and even some of the later Acclaim stuff (Shadowman Vol. 2-3, Quantum & Woody, even later Troublemakers) was really good, even as it remains ignored by speculators.

Happy to see the pre-Unity stuff get their due again.

In all those years, I've yet to see Harbinger 1 in a $1 box.

But I'm proud to have scored Magnus 1 & 12 from the $1 box, and found Unity 0 (red) for $4.

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. So, would your 10.0 Rai be the Action 1 of the Valiant universe?

Nope, it wouldn't be a copy of Rai #0... but I'm not sure what the correct answer would be... but it might be fun to follow the white rabbit down that rabbit hole.

Action #1 was the start of the whole superhero genre.

The single best copy of Action #1 is the "best copy for the first issue of the whole superhero genre".

CGC 10.0 Rai #0 can't be the "best copy for the first issue of the whole Valiant universe" because Rai #0 isn't the start of the Valiant universe.

The start of the Valiant universe was Magnus #1 from 1991. If there was a single best copy of Magnus #1 it would be the "best copy for the first issue of the Valiant universe". Currently, that's a big tie for the 273 copies graded at CGC 9.8, because there are none higher. There are also 17 copies of CGC 9.8 Magnus #1 (1991) Signature Series... so, you could argue that those 17 are tied, or that whichever one has the "best signatures" might be the best.

That all depends on whether signature series books are viewed as "better" than universal books. In terms of "better sale prices", that's true, but not necessarily true in terms of "better published surviving copy" since they were published without signatures years before CGC existed and started witnessing signatures. But then what if a CGC competitor graded a 9.9? Ummm... maybe we should talk about which book is the Action #1 and ignore the best copy in existence aspect for now.

We've already made an argument for Magnus #1 (1991) being like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

BUT...

The current Valiant universe doesn't include Magnus, so the first original title in the Valiant universe was Harbinger #1 (1992).

So, you could argue that Harbinger #1 (1992) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

BUT...

The Harbinger Foundation and its leader, Toyo Harada, were introduced before Harbinger #1 (1992) in Solar #3 (1991).

So, you could argue that Solar #3 (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

BUT...

Rai was the first original character in the Valiant universe, and the Rai (four issue mini-series) was published as flipbooks on the back side of Magnus #5 through Magnus #8.

So, you could argue that Magnus #5 / Rai #1 mini-series (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

BUT...

If you're going to include Magnus #5 in consideration for the Action #1 for the Valiant universe, it would be weird to say it started at Magnus #5 instead of saying it started at Magnus #1.

That circles the argument back to Magnus #1 being more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

BUT...

The Magnus stories as published by Valiant (or VALIANT in all caps at the time) specifically included the published stories from the Gold Key Magnus books as canon within the Valiant universe.

So, you could argue that Gold Key Magnus #1 (1963) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1991).

BUT...

Doctor Solar #1 (1962) is older than Magnus #1 (1963), and the Solar in the Valiant universe was "inspired" by the Dr. Solar from Gold Key comics.

So, you could argue that Gold Key Dr. Solar #1 (1962) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1963).

BUT...

The Valiant universe also included Turok Dinosaur Hunter, first seen by Valiant in Magnus #12 (1992), but the character was first published by Dell in 1954 as Four Color #596, aka Turok Son of Stone #1 (1954).

So, you could argue that Four Color #596 (1954) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than any more recent comic.

But no matter which argument you pick, Rai #0 (1992) isn't the Action #1 (1938) of the Valiant universe.

If we compare it to anything, it would have to be more like something from 1939 (or newer) than any book from 1938.

And yet, no one wants to make an offer for my double signed 9.8 Harby #1.

 

It's a great book, for sure, but the "$1,995 or Best Offer" may be intimidating to potential buyers who would otherwise be in the market for an unsigned CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 around $800 (the 90 day average). JayJay Jackson and Jim Shooter are not an extra $1,195 worth of CGC witnessed signatures. A CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 Signature Series was $305 in January 2015, and a CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 unsigned sold most recently prior for $309. Were the signatures worth negative $4?

The 2014 average for CGC 9.6 Harbinger #1 sales was $97, and the signature series CGC 9.6 Harbinger #1 sold for $103 that year. Were the signatures worth $6? That seems too low... but $50 signatures maybe? $100? Probably not $1,195.

 

An Ebay shopper would probably think it unlikely that a seller would go for an offer of $850 or even $1,200 (if we use the recent $1,130 sale plus $70 for the signatures), when the asking price is $2K.

 

Pffft.

 

The $305 sale was Layton only.

That's good info!

So it was the Layton signature that was worth negative $4?

That actually makes sense... because Harbinger #1 isn't important because Layton inked the cover. That negative value for the Layton signature is just funny now.

OK, let's throw out the negative $4 example. (thumbs u

And the last Universal sale was still $1100+.

 

AND....

 

The last sale of one of my OTHER copies (after it apparently traded hands a couple more times) was $1550.

 

And you cannot compare the sales of 9.8s from early this year, when unsigned copies were selling for $300...now, they're selling for an average of $800.

 

No, the comparisons are off, because Shooter doesn't sign much (I'll grant that JJ's sig, as pretty as it is, doesn't add much value), and there are only EIGHT SS books (with one being the aforementioned Layton only sig.)

Valid point! The most recent prior sale of a book just like your $1,995 was $1,550.

That was either a Buy-It-Now or a Best-Offer... either way, it was a single bidder/buyer.

Who is in the market to make a similar offer in the area of $1,550 for your $1,995 copy? Probably not that same buyer. Who's the next highest potential buyer in the market?

Unknown... and unknown what they are willing to pay for the "Shooter signature premium" above the $800 average or the $1,130 last sale of a CGC 9.8 universal.

Sigs add value. How much value? Well, in the other copy's case, about $700.

 

So...my asking price isn't *too" far off the mark, and certainly not as inflated as you're making it sound here. You've left quite a bit of very pertinent information out of the equation.

In only one known instance has a Shooter signature come anywhere close to a $700 premium.

Shooter does conventions and Shooter doesn't charge for his signature.

That single $700 premium is both a fact and an anecdote. Not sure either creates a rule we can apply.

It seems that you may actually be positing that the value of the Shooter signature is more like a "percentage premium" based upon the value of an unsigned copy in the CGC grade. We can probably find examples where a Shooter signature added $50 to a slab price, but that might be 50% higher than the unsigned copies in the same grade.

From that standpoint, a 50% premium on CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 would be either a $400 premium on an $800 average or $565 premium on the $1,130 last sale.

I'll agree that the percentage premium argument for signature series for Jim Shooter would place the current value of your CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 Signature Series between $1,200 and $1,700.

(thumbs u

However, my argument is that a Jim Shooter Signature Series premium is also validly argued as a "flat dollar premium" rather than a "percentage premium".

What is the flat dollar amount required to get a Jim Shooter signature on any book?

There's definitely a premium that's reasonable for any CGC signature series slab because of the cost to attend a convention, get the book witnessed and slabbed (possibly for a second time), and then some creators charge for the signature itself.

Jim Shooter doesn't charge for signatures, so there's no "extra fee" that's applicable to creators like Stan Lee who do charge.

So going back to where I said "we can probably find examples where a Shooter signature added $50 to a slab price", then we've got a "flat dollar premium" argument that I offered in my post where we could reasonably expect a $50 or $100 premium for the signature, above the cost of an unsigned copy in the same grade.

That's an $850 to $1,230 estimate... which is essentially what I posted earlier, and then you replied:

Pffft.

I will concede that the circular discussion does does now include an argument for the "percentage premium" for Signature Series which gets the market value estimate closer to your $1,995 asking price.

I'm just not (yet) convinced that a "percentage premium" for Signature Series is more supportable than "flat dollar premium" when it comes to actual Signature Series sales records.

But I am willing to become convinced by the addition of more very pertinent information.

I also agree that no one ever has to sell anything below a price they're willing to accept.

All it takes is one buyer at an acceptable price, regardless of what the market has done in the past or what future estimates might be derived from that data. :foryou:

In all those years, I've yet to see Harbinger 1 in a $1 box.

 

But I'm proud to have scored Magnus 1 & 12 from the $1 box, and found Unity 0 (red) for $4.

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. So, would your 10.0 Rai be the Action 1 of the Valiant universe?

Nope, it wouldn't be a copy of Rai #0... but I'm not sure what the correct answer would be... but it might be fun to follow the white rabbit down that rabbit hole.

 

Action #1 was the start of the whole superhero genre.

The single best copy of Action #1 is the "best copy for the first issue of the whole superhero genre".

 

CGC 10.0 Rai #0 can't be the "best copy for the first issue of the whole Valiant universe" because Rai #0 isn't the start of the Valiant universe.

 

The start of the Valiant universe was Magnus #1 from 1991. If there was a single best copy of Magnus #1 it would be the "best copy for the first issue of the Valiant universe". Currently, that's a big tie for the 273 copies graded at CGC 9.8, because there are none higher. There are also 17 copies of CGC 9.8 Magnus #1 (1991) Signature Series... so, you could argue that those 17 are tied, or that whichever one has the "best signatures" might be the best.

 

That all depends on whether signature series books are viewed as "better" than universal books. In terms of "better sale prices", that's true, but not necessarily true in terms of "better published surviving copy" since they were published without signatures years before CGC existed and started witnessing signatures. But then what if a CGC competitor graded a 9.9? Ummm... maybe we should talk about which book is the Action #1 and ignore the best copy in existence aspect for now.

 

We've already made an argument for Magnus #1 (1991) being like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The current Valiant universe doesn't include Magnus, so the first original title in the Valiant universe was Harbinger #1 (1992).

 

So, you could argue that Harbinger #1 (1992) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The Harbinger Foundation and its leader, Toyo Harada, were introduced before Harbinger #1 (1992) in Solar #3 (1991).

 

So, you could argue that Solar #3 (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

Rai was the first original character in the Valiant universe, and the Rai (four issue mini-series) was published as flipbooks on the back side of Magnus #5 through Magnus #8.

 

So, you could argue that Magnus #5 / Rai #1 mini-series (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

If you're going to include Magnus #5 in consideration for the Action #1 for the Valiant universe, it would be weird to say it started at Magnus #5 instead of saying it started at Magnus #1.

 

That circles the argument back to Magnus #1 being more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The Magnus stories as published by Valiant (or VALIANT in all caps at the time) specifically included the published stories from the Gold Key Magnus books as canon within the Valiant universe.

 

So, you could argue that Gold Key Magnus #1 (1963) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1991).

 

BUT...

 

Doctor Solar #1 (1962) is older than Magnus #1 (1963), and the Solar in the Valiant universe was "inspired" by the Dr. Solar from Gold Key comics.

 

So, you could argue that Gold Key Dr. Solar #1 (1962) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1963).

 

BUT...

 

The Valiant universe also included Turok Dinosaur Hunter, first seen by Valiant in Magnus #12 (1992), but the character was first published by Dell in 1954 as Four Color #596, aka Turok Son of Stone #1 (1954).

 

So, you could argue that Four Color #596 (1954) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than any more recent comic.

 

 

But no matter which argument you pick, Rai #0 (1992) isn't the Action #1 (1938) of the Valiant universe.

If we compare it to anything, it would have to be more like something from 1939 (or newer) than any book from 1938.

Ok, then it's the Action 1 CGC 9.0 of the Valiant universe. Meaning: most valuable. Well if it's not, it is to me, and you can sell it any time you want to.

I'm not sure what "Type" I'd fit into...but here's my VALIANT story (in short form ).

I bought Solar - b/c the guy at my comic shop knew I loved BWS and he pulled the first issue with a "there's a short BWS story in it...and he did the cover." When I saw it was Shooter too, I was hooked. I got to Magnus as of issue #5 (missing #1-4 -- which, imo, remains the greatest 4 issue arc of the entire 1990s - I wouldn't find that out until years later though...)

When Unity hit I was all-in for about a year. Then I stopped buying books and didn't return to VALIANT until...yep...Birthquake! Amazingly, I, at one point, had those low-print final issues for X-O and Solar b/c I stuck them out. The end of VALIANTwas rough in terms of quality .

As others have stated - the Shooter pre-Unity books hold up as some of the best material the medium has ever produced. The thought process leading up to Unity and executing that crossover is something that's never even come close to being equalled by any publisher. It's hard to say that the pre-Unity VALIANT was Shooter's best work b/c his Legion work was so damn good, and his leadership at Marvel produced that company's 2nd best decade (hey, even Jim's tenure doesn't rival the Stan/Jack/Steve years) but man, Magnus, Solar, X-O, Harbinger, Rai - every one was different but everyone was so good.

I didn't get on eBay until 1998 but that allowed me to fill in all my missing pre-Unity books. The Rai's were a lot harder to find than anything else - including stuff like Harbinger #0 and Magnus #0 - at least on my hunts. I could never win a Solar HC but in one of my greatest internet comic stories, a guy named Joe Petrilak just gave me one on the promise that I'd read his new VALIANT story (which he sent in the same box).

I've been buying some of the stuff I never got - the VVSS', and better copies of the early Solar's and Magnus' off of Greg's site, wish I really wish I'd found earlier as I'd have loved to have been part of all the fan projects that were done.

IMO, some of the later stuff holds up well too. Paul Gulacy, Tim Truman, Mike Grell - quality creators - did an issue or three on one of the properties near the end. Heck, I'm still mad I've missed buying the Quesada cover to Ninjak #2 twice in the last 15 years and I'd love to get my hands on any of the Sears X-O covers or Breyfogle Bloodshot. (I've long since accepted that a BWS cover is just not going to ever fit into my budget!)

Anybody looking for a good reads and a good hunt - get those pre-Unity books. Watching David Lapham 'transform' on Harbinger was just like watching Miller on DD or Sienkiewicz on MK - you got to see a master hone his craft.

i'll agree here, i never saw a harbinger 1 in a $1-$2 box. not saying they weren't out there, i just never saw one and i sure was looking.

I cleaned out two LCSs and one smaller dealer of their pre-unity, late run and incentives (Golds, VVSSs, etc.) and picked up multiples of all books except for the Diamond Trades at $1.00 or less (usually 3 for $1), including Harby #1. You just had to be willing to hear the LCS owners trash Valiant for creating the speculative bubble that killed the hobby in the 90s. (thumbs u

The smaller dealer turned up multiple runs and a couple of store backstock hoards in a three year span that I flipped quickly on eBay during the initial 2003-2004 Valiant price spike. I can remember passing on a long box and a half of Rai #0s for $0.10 per book that ended up getting water damaged due to a burst pipe in the building a short while later.

He did start asking for $5 apiece on the VVSS issues towards the end, though. Price gouger.

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. So, would your 10.0 Rai be the Action 1 of the Valiant universe?

Nope, it wouldn't be a copy of Rai #0... but I'm not sure what the correct answer would be... but it might be fun to follow the white rabbit down that rabbit hole.

 

Action #1 was the start of the whole superhero genre.

The single best copy of Action #1 is the "best copy for the first issue of the whole superhero genre".

 

CGC 10.0 Rai #0 can't be the "best copy for the first issue of the whole Valiant universe" because Rai #0 isn't the start of the Valiant universe.

 

The start of the Valiant universe was Magnus #1 from 1991. If there was a single best copy of Magnus #1 it would be the "best copy for the first issue of the Valiant universe". Currently, that's a big tie for the 273 copies graded at CGC 9.8, because there are none higher. There are also 17 copies of CGC 9.8 Magnus #1 (1991) Signature Series... so, you could argue that those 17 are tied, or that whichever one has the "best signatures" might be the best.

 

That all depends on whether signature series books are viewed as "better" than universal books. In terms of "better sale prices", that's true, but not necessarily true in terms of "better published surviving copy" since they were published without signatures years before CGC existed and started witnessing signatures. But then what if a CGC competitor graded a 9.9? Ummm... maybe we should talk about which book is the Action #1 and ignore the best copy in existence aspect for now.

 

We've already made an argument for Magnus #1 (1991) being like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The current Valiant universe doesn't include Magnus, so the first original title in the Valiant universe was Harbinger #1 (1992).

 

So, you could argue that Harbinger #1 (1992) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The Harbinger Foundation and its leader, Toyo Harada, were introduced before Harbinger #1 (1992) in Solar #3 (1991).

 

So, you could argue that Solar #3 (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

Rai was the first original character in the Valiant universe, and the Rai (four issue mini-series) was published as flipbooks on the back side of Magnus #5 through Magnus #8.

 

So, you could argue that Magnus #5 / Rai #1 mini-series (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

If you're going to include Magnus #5 in consideration for the Action #1 for the Valiant universe, it would be weird to say it started at Magnus #5 instead of saying it started at Magnus #1.

 

That circles the argument back to Magnus #1 being more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The Magnus stories as published by Valiant (or VALIANT in all caps at the time) specifically included the published stories from the Gold Key Magnus books as canon within the Valiant universe.

 

So, you could argue that Gold Key Magnus #1 (1963) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1991).

 

BUT...

 

Doctor Solar #1 (1962) is older than Magnus #1 (1963), and the Solar in the Valiant universe was "inspired" by the Dr. Solar from Gold Key comics.

 

So, you could argue that Gold Key Dr. Solar #1 (1962) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1963).

 

BUT...

 

The Valiant universe also included Turok Dinosaur Hunter, first seen by Valiant in Magnus #12 (1992), but the character was first published by Dell in 1954 as Four Color #596, aka Turok Son of Stone #1 (1954).

 

So, you could argue that Four Color #596 (1954) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than any more recent comic.

 

 

But no matter which argument you pick, Rai #0 (1992) isn't the Action #1 (1938) of the Valiant universe.

If we compare it to anything, it would have to be more like something from 1939 (or newer) than any book from 1938.

Shooter said it's Harbinger 1. That's all that should matter.

I started my Valiant journey with Magnus #1. I bought every Valiant comic to the bitter end. That bitter end came twice if you count Acclaim.

While Valiant was at it's best pre-Unity, there was terrific stuff post Unity. I like Bloodshot and Shadowman from beginning to end. I also like latecomers Timewalker, Ninjak, Eternal Warrior, Dr. Mirage, Armorines, and HARDCorp throughout their runs. Turok, Archer & Armstrong, and The Visitor never really clicked with me. Harbinger was okay at the end but nowhere as good as it started. RAI and the Future Force was okay. I'm probably the only person on the planet who liked Psi-Lords. Solar, Magnus, and X-O Manowar did sour during Birthquake and just got worse until they ended. The end was a mercy killing for what was a very, very promising company. Punx! Really?

I remember liking X-O Manowar from Acclaim, but not much else, even though I collected everything they put out. Ninjak was weird, Trinity Angels were okay, Shadowman was ... different. Turok was better at Acclaim than at Valiant. Armorines had promise.

I would love for the original Valiant characters and situations to return. I had high hopes with the backup stories in the hardcovers that VEI put out, but alas, it wasn't meant to be.

I started my Valiant journey with Magnus #1. I bought every Valiant comic to the bitter end. That bitter end came twice if you count Acclaim.

I think Valiant's rise and fall may also be part of the reason why so many of us are still drawn to it. When Unity hit Valiant truly had hit on something the industry was missing. Then critical mistakes were made such as firing Shooter and then selling out to Acclaim. I think many of us look back and wonder what could have been. Everyone loves a tragic story. Luckily for us several fans bought the properties and have rebuilt the company.

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. So, would your 10.0 Rai be the Action 1 of the Valiant universe?

Nope, it wouldn't be a copy of Rai #0... but I'm not sure what the correct answer would be... but it might be fun to follow the white rabbit down that rabbit hole.

 

Action #1 was the start of the whole superhero genre.

The single best copy of Action #1 is the "best copy for the first issue of the whole superhero genre".

 

CGC 10.0 Rai #0 can't be the "best copy for the first issue of the whole Valiant universe" because Rai #0 isn't the start of the Valiant universe.

 

The start of the Valiant universe was Magnus #1 from 1991. If there was a single best copy of Magnus #1 it would be the "best copy for the first issue of the Valiant universe". Currently, that's a big tie for the 273 copies graded at CGC 9.8, because there are none higher. There are also 17 copies of CGC 9.8 Magnus #1 (1991) Signature Series... so, you could argue that those 17 are tied, or that whichever one has the "best signatures" might be the best.

 

That all depends on whether signature series books are viewed as "better" than universal books. In terms of "better sale prices", that's true, but not necessarily true in terms of "better published surviving copy" since they were published without signatures years before CGC existed and started witnessing signatures. But then what if a CGC competitor graded a 9.9? Ummm... maybe we should talk about which book is the Action #1 and ignore the best copy in existence aspect for now.

 

We've already made an argument for Magnus #1 (1991) being like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The current Valiant universe doesn't include Magnus, so the first original title in the Valiant universe was Harbinger #1 (1992).

 

So, you could argue that Harbinger #1 (1992) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The Harbinger Foundation and its leader, Toyo Harada, were introduced before Harbinger #1 (1992) in Solar #3 (1991).

 

So, you could argue that Solar #3 (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

Rai was the first original character in the Valiant universe, and the Rai (four issue mini-series) was published as flipbooks on the back side of Magnus #5 through Magnus #8.

 

So, you could argue that Magnus #5 / Rai #1 mini-series (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

If you're going to include Magnus #5 in consideration for the Action #1 for the Valiant universe, it would be weird to say it started at Magnus #5 instead of saying it started at Magnus #1.

 

That circles the argument back to Magnus #1 being more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The Magnus stories as published by Valiant (or VALIANT in all caps at the time) specifically included the published stories from the Gold Key Magnus books as canon within the Valiant universe.

 

So, you could argue that Gold Key Magnus #1 (1963) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1991).

 

BUT...

 

Doctor Solar #1 (1962) is older than Magnus #1 (1963), and the Solar in the Valiant universe was "inspired" by the Dr. Solar from Gold Key comics.

 

So, you could argue that Gold Key Dr. Solar #1 (1962) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1963).

 

BUT...

 

The Valiant universe also included Turok Dinosaur Hunter, first seen by Valiant in Magnus #12 (1992), but the character was first published by Dell in 1954 as Four Color #596, aka Turok Son of Stone #1 (1954).

 

So, you could argue that Four Color #596 (1954) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than any more recent comic.

 

 

But no matter which argument you pick, Rai #0 (1992) isn't the Action #1 (1938) of the Valiant universe.

If we compare it to anything, it would have to be more like something from 1939 (or newer) than any book from 1938.

 

Shooter said it's Harbinger 1. That's all that should matter.

Shooter said Harbinger #1 was like Avengers #1, not Action #1.

X-O Manowar #1 would be Tec #27 then - the book that introduces the companies' most popular character.

Posted before but...

Despite my active & passive Valiant collecting (and occasional hoarding) over the last 20+ years, I remain 14 books short of a full VH1 set.

One of those books I was never able to get was Chaos Effect Alpha (Red).

I can, however, console myself with this:

Thank you, sir. Much appreciated. So, would your 10.0 Rai be the Action 1 of the Valiant universe?

Nope, it wouldn't be a copy of Rai #0... but I'm not sure what the correct answer would be... but it might be fun to follow the white rabbit down that rabbit hole.

 

Action #1 was the start of the whole superhero genre.

The single best copy of Action #1 is the "best copy for the first issue of the whole superhero genre".

 

CGC 10.0 Rai #0 can't be the "best copy for the first issue of the whole Valiant universe" because Rai #0 isn't the start of the Valiant universe.

 

The start of the Valiant universe was Magnus #1 from 1991. If there was a single best copy of Magnus #1 it would be the "best copy for the first issue of the Valiant universe". Currently, that's a big tie for the 273 copies graded at CGC 9.8, because there are none higher. There are also 17 copies of CGC 9.8 Magnus #1 (1991) Signature Series... so, you could argue that those 17 are tied, or that whichever one has the "best signatures" might be the best.

 

That all depends on whether signature series books are viewed as "better" than universal books. In terms of "better sale prices", that's true, but not necessarily true in terms of "better published surviving copy" since they were published without signatures years before CGC existed and started witnessing signatures. But then what if a CGC competitor graded a 9.9? Ummm... maybe we should talk about which book is the Action #1 and ignore the best copy in existence aspect for now.

 

We've already made an argument for Magnus #1 (1991) being like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The current Valiant universe doesn't include Magnus, so the first original title in the Valiant universe was Harbinger #1 (1992).

 

So, you could argue that Harbinger #1 (1992) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The Harbinger Foundation and its leader, Toyo Harada, were introduced before Harbinger #1 (1992) in Solar #3 (1991).

 

So, you could argue that Solar #3 (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

Rai was the first original character in the Valiant universe, and the Rai (four issue mini-series) was published as flipbooks on the back side of Magnus #5 through Magnus #8.

 

So, you could argue that Magnus #5 / Rai #1 mini-series (1991) is more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

If you're going to include Magnus #5 in consideration for the Action #1 for the Valiant universe, it would be weird to say it started at Magnus #5 instead of saying it started at Magnus #1.

 

That circles the argument back to Magnus #1 being more like the Action #1 for the Valiant universe.

 

BUT...

 

The Magnus stories as published by Valiant (or VALIANT in all caps at the time) specifically included the published stories from the Gold Key Magnus books as canon within the Valiant universe.

 

So, you could argue that Gold Key Magnus #1 (1963) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1991).

 

BUT...

 

Doctor Solar #1 (1962) is older than Magnus #1 (1963), and the Solar in the Valiant universe was "inspired" by the Dr. Solar from Gold Key comics.

 

So, you could argue that Gold Key Dr. Solar #1 (1962) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than Magnus #1 (1963).

 

BUT...

 

The Valiant universe also included Turok Dinosaur Hunter, first seen by Valiant in Magnus #12 (1992), but the character was first published by Dell in 1954 as Four Color #596, aka Turok Son of Stone #1 (1954).

 

So, you could argue that Four Color #596 (1954) is more like Action #1 for the Valiant universe than any more recent comic.

 

 

But no matter which argument you pick, Rai #0 (1992) isn't the Action #1 (1938) of the Valiant universe.

If we compare it to anything, it would have to be more like something from 1939 (or newer) than any book from 1938.

A lot of thought was put in to this. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Thank you

What's the deal with the three staples?

 

Valiant used three staples on Harbinger #1 along with paper that was slightly crisp. So you will see a spine opening on many copies where the staple broke the paper open. It's a nasty looking defect. I have a few examples like this, and yet the rest of the book will look perfect otherwise.

There was a coupon included in Harbinger #1 through #6 that was a separate sheet of white cardstock.

It was possible for that coupon to slip out, so some of them got a staple to hold the coupon sheet. Some didn't.

Harbinger #1 exists with and without the center (third) staple.

So should CGC have "Two Staple Version" and "Three Staple Version" like they did with Rai #0 glassy and Matte? What would be the difference, all in manufacturing.

I started my Valiant journey with Magnus #1. I bought every Valiant comic to the bitter end. That bitter end came twice if you count Acclaim.

 

 

 

I think Valiant's rise and fall may also be part of the reason why so many of us are still drawn to it. When Unity hit Valiant truly had hit on something the industry was missing. Then critical mistakes were made such as firing Shooter and then selling out to Acclaim. I think many of us look back and wonder what could have been. Everyone loves a tragic story. Luckily for us several fans bought the properties and have rebuilt the company.

Those are only mistakes from our perspective. The people in charge were business people and they did what they did so they could try to make a boatload of money. And they did.

I started my Valiant journey with Magnus #1. I bought every Valiant comic to the bitter end. That bitter end came twice if you count Acclaim.

 

 

 

I think Valiant's rise and fall may also be part of the reason why so many of us are still drawn to it. When Unity hit Valiant truly had hit on something the industry was missing. Then critical mistakes were made such as firing Shooter and then selling out to Acclaim. I think many of us look back and wonder what could have been. Everyone loves a tragic story. Luckily for us several fans bought the properties and have rebuilt the company.

Those are only mistakes from our perspective. The people in charge were business people and they did what they did so they could try to make a boatload of money. And they did.

I get that. They were very successful, but doesn't mean they didn't go about it wrong.

Posted before but...

 

Despite my active & passive Valiant collecting (and occasional hoarding) over the last 20+ years, I remain 14 books short of a full VH1 set.

 

One of those books I was never able to get was Chaos Effect Alpha (Red).

 

I can, however, console myself with this:

 

Yeah, that might suffice.

Posted before but...

 

Despite my active & passive Valiant collecting (and occasional hoarding) over the last 20+ years, I remain 14 books short of a full VH1 set.

 

One of those books I was never able to get was Chaos Effect Alpha (Red).

 

I can, however, console myself with this:

 

Awesome!

What are the other 13 books (if you don't mind sharing!)? Other 'specials' like Golds, etc? I found Bloodshot: Last Stand at a con in a "3 for $10" box at a show in 2000. I honestly had never even heard of it but saw it was Zeck and figured it was worth a read, only to find out a few years later that it was one of the 'rare late issues'. There are a ton of funny stories about the line b/c if it's really in the "if you weren't there, you didn't know." I saw a dealer just last year explaining to a younger reader why Solar #10 was just on his wall books!

Posted before but...

 

Despite my active & passive Valiant collecting (and occasional hoarding) over the last 20+ years, I remain 14 books short of a full VH1 set.

 

One of those books I was never able to get was Chaos Effect Alpha (Red).

 

I can, however, console myself with this:

 

 

 

Awesome!

 

What are the other 13 books (if you don't mind sharing!)? Other 'specials' like Golds, etc? I found Bloodshot: Last Stand at a con in a "3 for $10" box at a show in 2000. I honestly had never even heard of it but saw it was Zeck and figured it was worth a read, only to find out a few years later that it was one of the 'rare late issues'. There are a ton of funny stories about the line b/c if it's really in the "if you weren't there, you didn't know." I saw a dealer just last year explaining to a younger reader why Solar #10 was just on his wall books!

Here's what I'm still missing.

A+A 0 Gold

Unity Trade (Diamond) # 1

Unity Trade (Diamond) # 2

Bloodshot 0 (Gold)

Bloodshot 0 (Platinum)

Bloodshot 6 (VVSS)

Chaos Effect Alpha

Deathmate Epilogue (Gold)

Eternal Warrior # 27 (VVSS)

Shadowman 0 (Gold)

Shadowman 0 (VVSS)

Turok 1 (VVSS)

X-0 0 (Ivory)

X-O 1/2 (Gold)

I'm good with Bloodshot: Last Stand. I got a copy somewhere along the way. And this: