General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean

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The trouble it may cause is trouble for the seller. Self inflicted so I don't see the problem.

 

PayPal personal is not an option for payment. Is the thread in question asking for a cheque? If they are allowing PayPal then they are accepting returns.

 

Most of these discussions seem more like sour grapes from would be buyers that needed more info to purchase. Some don't mind taking chances.

 

 

 

 

Well, it's been a long time since I have a half a about whether or not I bought a book so I am immune from said grapes.

 

My only consideration is equity. I don't think having buyers scrambling around looking for technical means to force refunds is superior to seller's taking a modicum of care and diligence to post a photo or voluntarily take the books back if they can't be bothered to scan a book they want to sell for $300-400-500 or more.

 

Scrambling around?

 

Login, one link, done. If they can buy or sell on here then they won't be scrambling. Next is good pics and bad pics. In this forum there is a PGM section that clearly states judging grades from a scan is not accurate.

 

All this does is force sellers to do something else. Add it to the list.

 

 

It isn't:

login

contact seller and request refund

if they don't refund then you have to open a claim

attempt to resolve

then if they won't resolve

you have to request they escalate

then they'll review it

then you might get a refund 30 days or so later.

 

Hardly..."one link, done."

 

Hardly as easy for the buyer as a seller owning up to his failure to grade voluntarily, is it?

 

Forcing the onus on the buyer is forcing the onus on the buyer, and when it's the seller's duty to do so, voluntarily, all along.

 

You are an ardent and zealous lobbyist for the seller's union. I will give you that.

 

You don't have to contact the seller.

You used to be able to escalate immediately.

Sorry, 2 links.

 

Refunds are granted within 7 days I believe.

 

If your goal is a cleaner marketplace then go for it. If your goal is to have great deals then you're slowly killing it. The point is that you are covered by PayPal. No need to stress. It is safe to transact. You will not be able to rule away the possible headaches. All you will do is scare away new sellers. Will you stop some scammers? Maybe.

 

The boards are trending towards only dealers when it used to be an anti-dealer sales section. I try to lobby for balance and options. I tend to be inclusive and battle exclusivity.

 

Never underestimate the desire to inflate my post count.

Are they granted in seven days on a difference of opinion as to grade? Don't they require return for refund? Confirmation that the book has gone back to the seller?

I would love it if unfettered free reign let to to be "great deals" but it doesn't seem like a great deal if someone spends $400-500 for a book and then has to force the seller into a refund and waste a week or a month of time, etc. Not a great deal at all when they could have passed with a picture or got their refund without the intervention of a third party corporation's technicalities.

A great deal for buyers and sellers would be clear communication, equal care taken on both sides and a deal that is, unassailably, a deal. Doesn't waste the seller's time more than taking in a return and having to issue a refund and having to relist, resell, and reship the same book all over again.

You must be able to see the value, as a seller, in doing everything you can to have the deal be completed the first time through rather than leaving doubt that you'll have to repeat all those steps over again, wasting all that time and money and effort.

You seem worried about a rule like this applying to your modern slab sales, when it clearly doesn't and when it wasn't the focus of the discussion. Raw SA and raw sales in general have far more vagueness and possibility for difference of opinion or failed grading than a slabbed modern. I realize you are putting yourself in the seller's shoes here, but they don't seem to fit.

I was not saying there should be a rule, I was just saying that it was a legitimate complain. Sometimes a complain is just useful to have people realize they can do better.

 

Oh, for sure. I would have no issue asking someone for pics in their sales thread. I just don't like forcing sellers.

We should allow minors to sell books. I am missing GIJOEISAWESOME…

The buyer has to take some responsibility. Taking a high dollar book with no pictures and no return doesn't seem like the smartest thing in the world if you don't 100% know and trust the seller.

The trouble it may cause is trouble for the seller. Self inflicted so I don't see the problem.

 

PayPal personal is not an option for payment. Is the thread in question asking for a cheque? If they are allowing PayPal then they are accepting returns.

 

Most of these discussions seem more like sour grapes from would be buyers that needed more info to purchase. Some don't mind taking chances.

 

 

 

 

Well, it's been a long time since I have a half a about whether or not I bought a book so I am immune from said grapes.

 

My only consideration is equity. I don't think having buyers scrambling around looking for technical means to force refunds is superior to seller's taking a modicum of care and diligence to post a photo or voluntarily take the books back if they can't be bothered to scan a book they want to sell for $300-400-500 or more.

 

Scrambling around?

 

Login, one link, done. If they can buy or sell on here then they won't be scrambling. Next is good pics and bad pics. In this forum there is a PGM section that clearly states judging grades from a scan is not accurate.

 

All this does is force sellers to do something else. Add it to the list.

 

 

It isn't:

login

contact seller and request refund

if they don't refund then you have to open a claim

attempt to resolve

then if they won't resolve

you have to request they escalate

then they'll review it

then you might get a refund 30 days or so later.

 

Hardly..."one link, done."

 

Hardly as easy for the buyer as a seller owning up to his failure to grade voluntarily, is it?

 

Forcing the onus on the buyer is forcing the onus on the buyer, and when it's the seller's duty to do so, voluntarily, all along.

 

You are an ardent and zealous lobbyist for the seller's union. I will give you that.

 

You don't have to contact the seller.

You used to be able to escalate immediately.

Sorry, 2 links.

 

Refunds are granted within 7 days I believe.

 

If your goal is a cleaner marketplace then go for it. If your goal is to have great deals then you're slowly killing it. The point is that you are covered by PayPal. No need to stress. It is safe to transact. You will not be able to rule away the possible headaches. All you will do is scare away new sellers. Will you stop some scammers? Maybe.

 

The boards are trending towards only dealers when it used to be an anti-dealer sales section. I try to lobby for balance and options. I tend to be inclusive and battle exclusivity.

 

Never underestimate the desire to inflate my post count.

 

 

 

Are they granted in seven days on a difference of opinion as to grade? Don't they require return for refund? Confirmation that the book has gone back to the seller?

 

I would love it if unfettered free reign let to to be "great deals" but it doesn't seem like a great deal if someone spends $400-500 for a book and then has to force the seller into a refund and waste a week or a month of time, etc. Not a great deal at all when they could have passed with a picture or got their refund without the intervention of a third party corporation's technicalities.

 

A great deal for buyers and sellers would be clear communication, equal care taken on both sides and a deal that is, unassailably, a deal. Doesn't waste the seller's time more than taking in a return and having to issue a refund and having to relist, resell, and reship the same book all over again.

 

You must be able to see the value, as a seller, in doing everything you can to have the deal be completed the first time through rather than leaving doubt that you'll have to repeat all those steps over again, wasting all that time and money and effort.

 

You seem worried about a rule like this applying to your modern slab sales, when it clearly doesn't and when it wasn't the focus of the discussion. Raw SA and raw sales in general have far more vagueness and possibility for difference of opinion or failed grading than a slabbed modern. I realize you are putting yourself in the seller's shoes here, but they don't seem to fit.

 

You are using an extreme case as an example. We both know it is easy to argue extremes.

Pictures only show issues with cover wear and only good pictures show that. Forcing pics does very little if anything to prevent what you described. Does it prevent some? Maybe

I believe it is more harm than good to the marketplace.

The buyer has to take some responsibility. Taking a high dollar book with no pictures and no return doesn't seem like the smartest thing in the world if you don't 100% know and trust the seller.

Sadly, common sense doesn't seem to always be common.

The buyer has to take some responsibility. Taking a high dollar book with no pictures and no return doesn't seem like the smartest thing in the world if you don't 100% know and trust the seller.

 

 

Sadly, common sense doesn't seem to always be common.

What's common sense? I don't understand this.

The trouble it may cause is trouble for the seller. Self inflicted so I don't see the problem.

 

PayPal personal is not an option for payment. Is the thread in question asking for a cheque? If they are allowing PayPal then they are accepting returns.

 

Most of these discussions seem more like sour grapes from would be buyers that needed more info to purchase. Some don't mind taking chances.

 

 

 

 

Well, it's been a long time since I have a half a about whether or not I bought a book so I am immune from said grapes.

 

My only consideration is equity. I don't think having buyers scrambling around looking for technical means to force refunds is superior to seller's taking a modicum of care and diligence to post a photo or voluntarily take the books back if they can't be bothered to scan a book they want to sell for $300-400-500 or more.

 

Scrambling around?

 

Login, one link, done. If they can buy or sell on here then they won't be scrambling. Next is good pics and bad pics. In this forum there is a PGM section that clearly states judging grades from a scan is not accurate.

 

All this does is force sellers to do something else. Add it to the list.

 

 

It isn't:

login

contact seller and request refund

if they don't refund then you have to open a claim

attempt to resolve

then if they won't resolve

you have to request they escalate

then they'll review it

then you might get a refund 30 days or so later.

 

Hardly..."one link, done."

 

Hardly as easy for the buyer as a seller owning up to his failure to grade voluntarily, is it?

 

Forcing the onus on the buyer is forcing the onus on the buyer, and when it's the seller's duty to do so, voluntarily, all along.

 

You are an ardent and zealous lobbyist for the seller's union. I will give you that.

 

You don't have to contact the seller.

You used to be able to escalate immediately.

Sorry, 2 links.

 

Refunds are granted within 7 days I believe.

 

If your goal is a cleaner marketplace then go for it. If your goal is to have great deals then you're slowly killing it. The point is that you are covered by PayPal. No need to stress. It is safe to transact. You will not be able to rule away the possible headaches. All you will do is scare away new sellers. Will you stop some scammers? Maybe.

 

The boards are trending towards only dealers when it used to be an anti-dealer sales section. I try to lobby for balance and options. I tend to be inclusive and battle exclusivity.

 

Never underestimate the desire to inflate my post count.

 

 

 

Are they granted in seven days on a difference of opinion as to grade? Don't they require return for refund? Confirmation that the book has gone back to the seller?

 

I would love it if unfettered free reign let to to be "great deals" but it doesn't seem like a great deal if someone spends $400-500 for a book and then has to force the seller into a refund and waste a week or a month of time, etc. Not a great deal at all when they could have passed with a picture or got their refund without the intervention of a third party corporation's technicalities.

 

A great deal for buyers and sellers would be clear communication, equal care taken on both sides and a deal that is, unassailably, a deal. Doesn't waste the seller's time more than taking in a return and having to issue a refund and having to relist, resell, and reship the same book all over again.

 

You must be able to see the value, as a seller, in doing everything you can to have the deal be completed the first time through rather than leaving doubt that you'll have to repeat all those steps over again, wasting all that time and money and effort.

 

You seem worried about a rule like this applying to your modern slab sales, when it clearly doesn't and when it wasn't the focus of the discussion. Raw SA and raw sales in general have far more vagueness and possibility for difference of opinion or failed grading than a slabbed modern. I realize you are putting yourself in the seller's shoes here, but they don't seem to fit.

 

 

You are using an extreme case as an example. We both know it is easy to argue extremes.

 

Pictures only show issues with cover wear and only good pictures show that. Forcing pics does very little if anything to prevent what you described. Does it prevent some? Maybe

 

I believe it is more harm than good to the marketplace.

I'm not using an extreme case...I am using the actual current case.

That's exactly what's happening right now in GSB.

Asking that all sellers who sell raws either post pics (if the book is over certain dollar amount say $50 or $100) OR have a return policy is unreasonable or does harm?

The buyer has to take some responsibility. Taking a high dollar book with no pictures and no return doesn't seem like the smartest thing in the world if you don't 100% know and trust the seller.

Sure they do. I put as much responsibility on buyers as I do on sellers. If a seller can't put something above bare minimum effort into making be believe I am getting what I am promised they won't get a sale from me.

That doesn't mean I want the forums flooded with sales threads for high dollar raw books with no return policies and no pics.

I can see garbage like that on Craigslist all day long.

The trouble it may cause is trouble for the seller. Self inflicted so I don't see the problem.

 

PayPal personal is not an option for payment. Is the thread in question asking for a cheque? If they are allowing PayPal then they are accepting returns.

 

Most of these discussions seem more like sour grapes from would be buyers that needed more info to purchase. Some don't mind taking chances.

 

 

 

 

Well, it's been a long time since I have a half a about whether or not I bought a book so I am immune from said grapes.

 

My only consideration is equity. I don't think having buyers scrambling around looking for technical means to force refunds is superior to seller's taking a modicum of care and diligence to post a photo or voluntarily take the books back if they can't be bothered to scan a book they want to sell for $300-400-500 or more.

 

Scrambling around?

 

Login, one link, done. If they can buy or sell on here then they won't be scrambling. Next is good pics and bad pics. In this forum there is a PGM section that clearly states judging grades from a scan is not accurate.

 

All this does is force sellers to do something else. Add it to the list.

 

 

It isn't:

login

contact seller and request refund

if they don't refund then you have to open a claim

attempt to resolve

then if they won't resolve

you have to request they escalate

then they'll review it

then you might get a refund 30 days or so later.

 

Hardly..."one link, done."

 

Hardly as easy for the buyer as a seller owning up to his failure to grade voluntarily, is it?

 

Forcing the onus on the buyer is forcing the onus on the buyer, and when it's the seller's duty to do so, voluntarily, all along.

 

You are an ardent and zealous lobbyist for the seller's union. I will give you that.

 

You don't have to contact the seller.

You used to be able to escalate immediately.

Sorry, 2 links.

 

Refunds are granted within 7 days I believe.

 

If your goal is a cleaner marketplace then go for it. If your goal is to have great deals then you're slowly killing it. The point is that you are covered by PayPal. No need to stress. It is safe to transact. You will not be able to rule away the possible headaches. All you will do is scare away new sellers. Will you stop some scammers? Maybe.

 

The boards are trending towards only dealers when it used to be an anti-dealer sales section. I try to lobby for balance and options. I tend to be inclusive and battle exclusivity.

 

Never underestimate the desire to inflate my post count.

 

 

 

Are they granted in seven days on a difference of opinion as to grade? Don't they require return for refund? Confirmation that the book has gone back to the seller?

 

I would love it if unfettered free reign let to to be "great deals" but it doesn't seem like a great deal if someone spends $400-500 for a book and then has to force the seller into a refund and waste a week or a month of time, etc. Not a great deal at all when they could have passed with a picture or got their refund without the intervention of a third party corporation's technicalities.

 

A great deal for buyers and sellers would be clear communication, equal care taken on both sides and a deal that is, unassailably, a deal. Doesn't waste the seller's time more than taking in a return and having to issue a refund and having to relist, resell, and reship the same book all over again.

 

You must be able to see the value, as a seller, in doing everything you can to have the deal be completed the first time through rather than leaving doubt that you'll have to repeat all those steps over again, wasting all that time and money and effort.

 

You seem worried about a rule like this applying to your modern slab sales, when it clearly doesn't and when it wasn't the focus of the discussion. Raw SA and raw sales in general have far more vagueness and possibility for difference of opinion or failed grading than a slabbed modern. I realize you are putting yourself in the seller's shoes here, but they don't seem to fit.

 

 

You are using an extreme case as an example. We both know it is easy to argue extremes.

 

Pictures only show issues with cover wear and only good pictures show that. Forcing pics does very little if anything to prevent what you described. Does it prevent some? Maybe

 

I believe it is more harm than good to the marketplace.

 

 

I'm not using an extreme case...I am using the actual current case.

 

That's exactly what's happening right now in GSB.

 

Asking that all sellers who sell raws either post pics (if the book is over certain dollar amount say $50 or $100) OR have a return policy is unreasonable or does harm?

Yes. Asking for a return policy is redundant if using PayPal. Requiring pics just limits the amount of potential sellers.

Who got screwed over in the GSB?

The trouble it may cause is trouble for the seller. Self inflicted so I don't see the problem.

 

PayPal personal is not an option for payment. Is the thread in question asking for a cheque? If they are allowing PayPal then they are accepting returns.

 

Most of these discussions seem more like sour grapes from would be buyers that needed more info to purchase. Some don't mind taking chances.

 

 

 

 

Well, it's been a long time since I have a half a about whether or not I bought a book so I am immune from said grapes.

 

My only consideration is equity. I don't think having buyers scrambling around looking for technical means to force refunds is superior to seller's taking a modicum of care and diligence to post a photo or voluntarily take the books back if they can't be bothered to scan a book they want to sell for $300-400-500 or more.

 

Scrambling around?

 

Login, one link, done. If they can buy or sell on here then they won't be scrambling. Next is good pics and bad pics. In this forum there is a PGM section that clearly states judging grades from a scan is not accurate.

 

All this does is force sellers to do something else. Add it to the list.

 

 

It isn't:

login

contact seller and request refund

if they don't refund then you have to open a claim

attempt to resolve

then if they won't resolve

you have to request they escalate

then they'll review it

then you might get a refund 30 days or so later.

 

Hardly..."one link, done."

 

Hardly as easy for the buyer as a seller owning up to his failure to grade voluntarily, is it?

 

Forcing the onus on the buyer is forcing the onus on the buyer, and when it's the seller's duty to do so, voluntarily, all along.

 

You are an ardent and zealous lobbyist for the seller's union. I will give you that.

 

You don't have to contact the seller.

You used to be able to escalate immediately.

Sorry, 2 links.

 

Refunds are granted within 7 days I believe.

 

If your goal is a cleaner marketplace then go for it. If your goal is to have great deals then you're slowly killing it. The point is that you are covered by PayPal. No need to stress. It is safe to transact. You will not be able to rule away the possible headaches. All you will do is scare away new sellers. Will you stop some scammers? Maybe.

 

The boards are trending towards only dealers when it used to be an anti-dealer sales section. I try to lobby for balance and options. I tend to be inclusive and battle exclusivity.

 

Never underestimate the desire to inflate my post count.

 

 

 

Are they granted in seven days on a difference of opinion as to grade? Don't they require return for refund? Confirmation that the book has gone back to the seller?

 

I would love it if unfettered free reign let to to be "great deals" but it doesn't seem like a great deal if someone spends $400-500 for a book and then has to force the seller into a refund and waste a week or a month of time, etc. Not a great deal at all when they could have passed with a picture or got their refund without the intervention of a third party corporation's technicalities.

 

A great deal for buyers and sellers would be clear communication, equal care taken on both sides and a deal that is, unassailably, a deal. Doesn't waste the seller's time more than taking in a return and having to issue a refund and having to relist, resell, and reship the same book all over again.

 

You must be able to see the value, as a seller, in doing everything you can to have the deal be completed the first time through rather than leaving doubt that you'll have to repeat all those steps over again, wasting all that time and money and effort.

 

You seem worried about a rule like this applying to your modern slab sales, when it clearly doesn't and when it wasn't the focus of the discussion. Raw SA and raw sales in general have far more vagueness and possibility for difference of opinion or failed grading than a slabbed modern. I realize you are putting yourself in the seller's shoes here, but they don't seem to fit.

 

 

You are using an extreme case as an example. We both know it is easy to argue extremes.

 

Pictures only show issues with cover wear and only good pictures show that. Forcing pics does very little if anything to prevent what you described. Does it prevent some? Maybe

 

I believe it is more harm than good to the marketplace.

 

 

I'm not using an extreme case...I am using the actual current case.

 

That's exactly what's happening right now in GSB.

 

Asking that all sellers who sell raws either post pics (if the book is over certain dollar amount say $50 or $100) OR have a return policy is unreasonable or does harm?

 

Yes. Asking for a return policy is redundant if using PayPal. Requiring pics just limits the amount of potential sellers.

 

Who got screwed over in the GSB?

Nobody got screwed, yet.

There's a thread with raw SA keys, some for high dollars....no pics, no returns.

Did you not read what this discussion was referencing before jumping in all...

??

And if requiring pics of SA raw keys limits the amount of sellers here then maybe it's limiting the amount of sellers here in just the right way.

That's a pretty low fricken bar...even for comic book collector level of motivation.

The trouble it may cause is trouble for the seller. Self inflicted so I don't see the problem.

 

PayPal personal is not an option for payment. Is the thread in question asking for a cheque? If they are allowing PayPal then they are accepting returns.

 

Most of these discussions seem more like sour grapes from would be buyers that needed more info to purchase. Some don't mind taking chances.

 

 

 

 

Well, it's been a long time since I have a half a about whether or not I bought a book so I am immune from said grapes.

 

My only consideration is equity. I don't think having buyers scrambling around looking for technical means to force refunds is superior to seller's taking a modicum of care and diligence to post a photo or voluntarily take the books back if they can't be bothered to scan a book they want to sell for $300-400-500 or more.

 

Scrambling around?

 

Login, one link, done. If they can buy or sell on here then they won't be scrambling. Next is good pics and bad pics. In this forum there is a PGM section that clearly states judging grades from a scan is not accurate.

 

All this does is force sellers to do something else. Add it to the list.

 

 

It isn't:

login

contact seller and request refund

if they don't refund then you have to open a claim

attempt to resolve

then if they won't resolve

you have to request they escalate

then they'll review it

then you might get a refund 30 days or so later.

 

Hardly..."one link, done."

 

Hardly as easy for the buyer as a seller owning up to his failure to grade voluntarily, is it?

 

Forcing the onus on the buyer is forcing the onus on the buyer, and when it's the seller's duty to do so, voluntarily, all along.

 

You are an ardent and zealous lobbyist for the seller's union. I will give you that.

 

You don't have to contact the seller.

You used to be able to escalate immediately.

Sorry, 2 links.

 

Refunds are granted within 7 days I believe.

 

If your goal is a cleaner marketplace then go for it. If your goal is to have great deals then you're slowly killing it. The point is that you are covered by PayPal. No need to stress. It is safe to transact. You will not be able to rule away the possible headaches. All you will do is scare away new sellers. Will you stop some scammers? Maybe.

 

The boards are trending towards only dealers when it used to be an anti-dealer sales section. I try to lobby for balance and options. I tend to be inclusive and battle exclusivity.

 

Never underestimate the desire to inflate my post count.

 

 

 

Are they granted in seven days on a difference of opinion as to grade? Don't they require return for refund? Confirmation that the book has gone back to the seller?

 

I would love it if unfettered free reign let to to be "great deals" but it doesn't seem like a great deal if someone spends $400-500 for a book and then has to force the seller into a refund and waste a week or a month of time, etc. Not a great deal at all when they could have passed with a picture or got their refund without the intervention of a third party corporation's technicalities.

 

A great deal for buyers and sellers would be clear communication, equal care taken on both sides and a deal that is, unassailably, a deal. Doesn't waste the seller's time more than taking in a return and having to issue a refund and having to relist, resell, and reship the same book all over again.

 

You must be able to see the value, as a seller, in doing everything you can to have the deal be completed the first time through rather than leaving doubt that you'll have to repeat all those steps over again, wasting all that time and money and effort.

 

You seem worried about a rule like this applying to your modern slab sales, when it clearly doesn't and when it wasn't the focus of the discussion. Raw SA and raw sales in general have far more vagueness and possibility for difference of opinion or failed grading than a slabbed modern. I realize you are putting yourself in the seller's shoes here, but they don't seem to fit.

 

 

You are using an extreme case as an example. We both know it is easy to argue extremes.

 

Pictures only show issues with cover wear and only good pictures show that. Forcing pics does very little if anything to prevent what you described. Does it prevent some? Maybe

 

I believe it is more harm than good to the marketplace.

 

 

I'm not using an extreme case...I am using the actual current case.

 

That's exactly what's happening right now in GSB.

 

Asking that all sellers who sell raws either post pics (if the book is over certain dollar amount say $50 or $100) OR have a return policy is unreasonable or does harm?

I think he's saying that the market will likely sort this type of problem out in most cases. Its a dumb marketing strategy to sell high cost books without scans, but not a regulatory issue. Especially when it doesn't seem fair to let ANYONE establish the value thresholds for such action. What if they're $1 under the threshold? howabout 1 cent? Marketing suggestions and regulatory practices are not and should not be the same thing.

The trouble it may cause is trouble for the seller. Self inflicted so I don't see the problem.

 

PayPal personal is not an option for payment. Is the thread in question asking for a cheque? If they are allowing PayPal then they are accepting returns.

 

Most of these discussions seem more like sour grapes from would be buyers that needed more info to purchase. Some don't mind taking chances.

 

 

 

 

Well, it's been a long time since I have a half a about whether or not I bought a book so I am immune from said grapes.

 

My only consideration is equity. I don't think having buyers scrambling around looking for technical means to force refunds is superior to seller's taking a modicum of care and diligence to post a photo or voluntarily take the books back if they can't be bothered to scan a book they want to sell for $300-400-500 or more.

 

Scrambling around?

 

Login, one link, done. If they can buy or sell on here then they won't be scrambling. Next is good pics and bad pics. In this forum there is a PGM section that clearly states judging grades from a scan is not accurate.

 

All this does is force sellers to do something else. Add it to the list.

 

 

It isn't:

login

contact seller and request refund

if they don't refund then you have to open a claim

attempt to resolve

then if they won't resolve

you have to request they escalate

then they'll review it

then you might get a refund 30 days or so later.

 

Hardly..."one link, done."

 

Hardly as easy for the buyer as a seller owning up to his failure to grade voluntarily, is it?

 

Forcing the onus on the buyer is forcing the onus on the buyer, and when it's the seller's duty to do so, voluntarily, all along.

 

You are an ardent and zealous lobbyist for the seller's union. I will give you that.

 

You don't have to contact the seller.

You used to be able to escalate immediately.

Sorry, 2 links.

 

Refunds are granted within 7 days I believe.

 

If your goal is a cleaner marketplace then go for it. If your goal is to have great deals then you're slowly killing it. The point is that you are covered by PayPal. No need to stress. It is safe to transact. You will not be able to rule away the possible headaches. All you will do is scare away new sellers. Will you stop some scammers? Maybe.

 

The boards are trending towards only dealers when it used to be an anti-dealer sales section. I try to lobby for balance and options. I tend to be inclusive and battle exclusivity.

 

Never underestimate the desire to inflate my post count.

 

 

 

Are they granted in seven days on a difference of opinion as to grade? Don't they require return for refund? Confirmation that the book has gone back to the seller?

 

I would love it if unfettered free reign let to to be "great deals" but it doesn't seem like a great deal if someone spends $400-500 for a book and then has to force the seller into a refund and waste a week or a month of time, etc. Not a great deal at all when they could have passed with a picture or got their refund without the intervention of a third party corporation's technicalities.

 

A great deal for buyers and sellers would be clear communication, equal care taken on both sides and a deal that is, unassailably, a deal. Doesn't waste the seller's time more than taking in a return and having to issue a refund and having to relist, resell, and reship the same book all over again.

 

You must be able to see the value, as a seller, in doing everything you can to have the deal be completed the first time through rather than leaving doubt that you'll have to repeat all those steps over again, wasting all that time and money and effort.

 

You seem worried about a rule like this applying to your modern slab sales, when it clearly doesn't and when it wasn't the focus of the discussion. Raw SA and raw sales in general have far more vagueness and possibility for difference of opinion or failed grading than a slabbed modern. I realize you are putting yourself in the seller's shoes here, but they don't seem to fit.

 

 

You are using an extreme case as an example. We both know it is easy to argue extremes.

 

Pictures only show issues with cover wear and only good pictures show that. Forcing pics does very little if anything to prevent what you described. Does it prevent some? Maybe

 

I believe it is more harm than good to the marketplace.

 

 

I'm not using an extreme case...I am using the actual current case.

 

That's exactly what's happening right now in GSB.

 

Asking that all sellers who sell raws either post pics (if the book is over certain dollar amount say $50 or $100) OR have a return policy is unreasonable or does harm?

 

Yes. Asking for a return policy is redundant if using PayPal. Requiring pics just limits the amount of potential sellers.

 

Who got screwed over in the GSB?

 

 

Nobody got screwed, yet.

 

There's a thread with raw SA keys, some for high dollars....no pics, no returns.

 

Did you not read what this discussion was referencing before jumping in all...

 

 

??

You are using an extreme example to its conclusion and have no current example. You made the claim that it was going on right now. It is not.

Jeff, I wished you worked outside of your home.

Jeff, I wished you worked outside of your home.

No you don't. Apparently when I was "employed" I was grumpy.

You are using an extreme example to its conclusion and have no current example. You made the claim that it was going on right now. It is not.

So you missed the part about how there's an active thread, right now with no pics and no return policy? The discussion has revolved around that self-same set of events. The discussion is how we want our sales forum, our wonderful fee free forum, to be run and what makes it work best.

Is that the allowing people to sell high priced raws with no pics and simultaneously set up terms that would attempt to block returns? Does that make the forum "work best"? For whom? Do we want a bunch of sellers trying to do the exact same thing?

At least don't avoid the question that you had no idea what everyone was talking about when you felt the tug of contrarianism rise up from your bowels.

You immediately applied it to your modern slab sales thread, which could not be further from the raw SA books we were talking about, and felt that it could, somehow, impact you.

Just don't ignore the fact that it's faster, more efficient, and better for the forum's operation overall if sellers take a moment to show what they are selling, explain what they are selling and stand behind what they are selling. Way more efficient than the doubt and confrontation that comes from reversing paypal and all that back and forth shipping, relisting, reselling, reshipping, etc.

I know you don't like being boxed in with logic, but at the end of the day, there you are, in the box.

You are using an extreme example to its conclusion and have no current example. You made the claim that it was going on right now. It is not.

 

 

So you missed the part about how there's an active thread, right now with no pics and no return policy? The discussion has revolved around that self-same set of events. The discussion is how we want our sales forum, our wonderful fee free forum, to be run and what makes it work best.

 

Is that the allowing people to sell with no pics and set up terms that would attempt to block returns? Does that make the forum "work best"? Do we want a bunch of sellers trying to do the exact same thing?

 

At least don't avoid the question that you had no idea what everyone was talking about when you felt the tug of contrarianism rise up from your bowels.

 

You immediately applied it to your modern slab sales thread, which could not be further from the raw SA books we were talking about, and felt that it could, somehow, impact you.

 

Just don't ignore the fact that it's faster, more efficient, and better for the forum's operation overall if seller's take a moment to show what they are selling, explain what they are selling and stand behind what they are selling. Way more efficient than the doubt and confrontation that comes from reversing paypal and all that back and forth shipping, relisting, reselling, reshipping, etc.

 

I know you don't like being boxed in with logic, but at the end of the day, there you are, in the box.

Did you conveniently forget the part where you claimed someone was going through a lengthy PayPal claim?

Your answer to improving the situation is to demand pics or a return policy (redundant). This does not improve what you believe it will.

You are using an extreme example to its conclusion and have no current example. You made the claim that it was going on right now. It is not.

 

 

So you missed the part about how there's an active thread, right now with no pics and no return policy? The discussion has revolved around that self-same set of events. The discussion is how we want our sales forum, our wonderful fee free forum, to be run and what makes it work best.

 

Is that the allowing people to sell with no pics and set up terms that would attempt to block returns? Does that make the forum "work best"? Do we want a bunch of sellers trying to do the exact same thing?

 

At least don't avoid the question that you had no idea what everyone was talking about when you felt the tug of contrarianism rise up from your bowels.

 

You immediately applied it to your modern slab sales thread, which could not be further from the raw SA books we were talking about, and felt that it could, somehow, impact you.

 

Just don't ignore the fact that it's faster, more efficient, and better for the forum's operation overall if seller's take a moment to show what they are selling, explain what they are selling and stand behind what they are selling. Way more efficient than the doubt and confrontation that comes from reversing paypal and all that back and forth shipping, relisting, reselling, reshipping, etc.

 

I know you don't like being boxed in with logic, but at the end of the day, there you are, in the box.

 

Did you conveniently forget the part where you claimed someone was going through a lengthy PayPal claim?

 

Your answer to improving the situation is to demand pics or a return policy (redundant). This does not improve what you believe it will.

Actually, no, I didn't forget anything.

I was answering your (not wholly accurate) claim about how easy and fast it was to get money back from paypal on a claim of overgrading.

I never claimed that was what someone was going through, I was answering your "one click refund" claim.

The entirety of the discussion revolved around questioning the profundity of trying to sell (or buy) SA Keys for hundreds of dollars without the benefit of seeing the books beforehand or having a mutually agreed upon set of options for return should they fail to meet promised condition.

So what does your pic requirement do exactly?

So what does your pic requirement do exactly?

Provides important information to the buyer that the seller should want the buyer to have if he's interested in satisfied customers and efficient business practices.

If a seller doesn't want to post pics they should be ready willing and able to accept returns after buyer's receive the item without dispute.

Having the cake and eating it too is a tempting fantasy but ultimately one-sided.

Besides, pictures help buyers and sellers. This isn't the 80's, everyone's got a digital camera or a scanner. If they are on the internet they can post pics of books, and if they want the nice money from Gold/Silver/Bronze/Expensive Age raws then maybe 100% laziness isn't the best way to obtain it.

Sellers should want to post pics. They should want to entice buyers to buy. They should want those buyers, when they buy, to buy again because of how happy they were the first time.