Superman: The Man of Steel #17 & 18 (Doomsday)

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MOS17 is a very very weak cameo - a fist hitting a wall is not a cameo IMO. WIthout CGC noting First Doomsday Cameo it would have little to no value.

My MOS #18 9.8WP first print will be delivered to the house on Monday! I wonder what the ceiling for this book will be once Doomsday is officially revealed as the villain. There are currently 955 in 9.8, with 5 in 9.9.

I would guess that the ceiling is partially set by other DC Comics from that era with lower print runs but high demand. For example, Batman Adventures #12 has a lower print than Man of Steel #18, and Harley Quinn is more popular than Doomsday. As a result, I would not expect Man of Steel #18 to even (ever?) come close to the value of Batman Adventures #12. Man of Steel #17 is an interesting case because there is much, much less Doomsday in Man of Steel #17 than there is Wolverine in Hulk #180, but for now, Man of Steel #17 has a higher price. What is that higher price for MoS #17 based on? It's not based on the amount of Doomsday in the book.

 

It's likely that Man of Steel #17 has a premium (for now) over Man of Steel #18 due to the fewer number of CGC graded copies for #17. If both books had similar CGC census numbers, we would likely see Man of Steel #18 with a higher price because it is the first "full Doomsday". That's an interesting situation though, because Doomsday "appears" throughout Man of Steel #18, but he's always covered by his wrappings. We don't get to "see" Doomsday until Superman #74.

 

I think it's the cover of MOS18 that collectors like so much. Great cover.

 

And yeah.... why is MOS 17 doing so well? I don't get that at all.

 

Yeah, I don't get it. #18 has the better cover, more stuff happens in the book and it's a full first appearance as opposed to a...fist. Smaller print run, perhaps? How many other characters have a cameo first appearance out-perform their first full and first cover?

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the print run increased approximately 40% between 17 and 18 and 350% (!!) between 18 and 19.

I'll eat some crow, but I don't see a 1st Print MOS #18 going over $200.

 

I'd love it -- I have a ton of copies -- but that's probably why it won't climb that high.

Yes, if I remember correctly, there was a lot of hype about these books even before they came out.

As a result, there were a ton of copies that were printed, sold and hoarded by both collectors and stores at that time.

Must look for an uber low grade copy of this book which would be a true rarity in the marketplace!

The newsstand copies are a bit tougher to find in 9.6+ due to shelf/rack damage. I can remember sorting through the 10-12 copies at the local grocery store in my hometown the day it came out and pulling the 3 best copies while my friends waited for the leftovers.

All of the copies at the gas station in town that carried new comics were damaged.

MOS17 is a very very weak cameo - a fist hitting a wall is not a cameo IMO. WIthout CGC noting First Doomsday Cameo it would have little to no value. Again, I think the relative popularity and high census numbers of MOS18 pushed Doomsday collectors to look for something more unique (not that MOS17 is all that unique).

 

With that being said - someone sell me an MOS 18 4th and 5th print in CGC 9.8 I will also take a 9.9 first print (thumbs u

It's Doomsday.

It's actually an entire page...just like ASM #298. It's a classic cameo. Whether a full body shot is included or not isn't relevant. We know it's Doomsday from the context. People knew it was Doomsday's first appearance long before CGC, and we didn't need CGC to tell us it was "First Doomsday Cameo" to care, because it certainly had value long before CGC. It is quite incorrect to say it would have "little to no value" without the notation.

The entire hobby doesn't hinge on label notations, after all.

(Man, how could would it have been to be reading ASM when #298 came out, and wondering who the hell was wearing Spidey's symbiote...?)

Back in November of 1992, DC was using the "continuity diamonds" so one would know which books to read in which order in accordance with their storytelling. The following books were all released that month, have cameos of Doomsday's fist, and their corresponding diamonds are listed. Street date is in parentheses:

 

Man of Steel #17 - 41 (September 9 or 16, 1992)

Superman #73 - 42 (September 25, 1992)

Adventures of Superman #496 - 43 (October 28, 1992)

Action Comics #683 - 44 (October 28, 1992)

 

December 1992

Man of Steel #18 - 45 (first full)

 

I got the release dates from comiccollectorlive.com so take them with a grain of salt. ?

Take them with a big FAT grain of salt, because those release dates are completely and totally wrong. I wonder why they can't even do this tiny bit of research? Just goes to show how much out there reported as "fact" is incorrect.

Superman was, in 1992, a weekly event, week in and week out, every week, for 48 weeks a year (they skipped the 5th weeks until 1995.)

Here are the correct WEEKS, according to the US Copyright Office -

Action Comics:

no. 683, Nov92. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-10-06; Reg. 1992-10-20; TX0003442096

no. 684, Dec92. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-11-03; Reg. 1992-11-10; TX0003434013

no. 685, Jan93. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-12-01; Reg. 1992-12-22; TX0003447896

Adventures of Superman:

no. 496, Nov92. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-09-29; Reg. 1992-10-20; TX0003442104

no. 497, Dec92. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-10-27; Reg. 1992-11-09; TX0003430269

no. 498, Jan93. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-11-24; Reg. 1992-12-22; TX0003447895

Man of Steel:

no. 17, Nov92. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-09-15; Reg. 1992-09-24; TX0003400955

no. 18, Dec92. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-10-13; Reg. 1992-11-09; TX0003434010

no. 19, Jan93. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-11-10; Reg. 1992-12-24; TX0003449999

no. 20, Feb93. Created 1992; Pub. 1992-12-15; Reg. 1993-02-16; TX0003486711

Superman:

no. 73, Nov92. Claimant: DC Comics, Inc. (employer for hire) Created 1992; Pub. 1992-09-22; Reg. 1992-09-30; TX0003396764

no. 74, Dec92. Claimant: DC Comics, Inc. (employer for hire) Created 1992; Pub. 1992-10-20; Reg. 1992-11-09; TX0003430249

no. 75, Jan93. Claimant: DC Comics, Inc. (employer for hire) Created 1992; Pub. 1992-12-08; Reg. 1993-02-16; TX0003489382

For Man of Steel #18 to have been released in December, 1992, Superman #75...five issues later....couldn't have been released on Nov 20th.

(Even here, however, there's an error: Superman #75 was published the week of Nov 17, not Dec 8.)

MOS17 is a very very weak cameo - a fist hitting a wall is not a cameo IMO. WIthout CGC noting First Doomsday Cameo it would have little to no value. Again, I think the relative popularity and high census numbers of MOS18 pushed Doomsday collectors to look for something more unique (not that MOS17 is all that unique).

 

With that being said - someone sell me an MOS 18 4th and 5th print in CGC 9.8 I will also take a 9.9 first print (thumbs u

 

It's Doomsday.

 

It's actually an entire page...just like ASM #298. It's a classic cameo. Whether a full body shot is included or not isn't relevant. We know it's Doomsday from the context. People knew it was Doomsday's first appearance long before CGC, and we didn't need CGC to tell us it was "First Doomsday Cameo" to care, because it certainly had value long before CGC. It is quite incorrect to say it would have "little to no value" without the notation.

 

The entire hobby doesn't hinge on label notations, after all.

 

(Man, how could would it have been to be reading ASM when #298 came out, and wondering who the hell was wearing Spidey's symbiote...?)

 

I take your point - but I see a difference between ASM 298 (seeing Venom in shadows but seeing his torso up and his face and some dialogue) versus MOS17 (seeing only an arm and a fist 3 times).

My value comment was also directed at MOS17 being worth almost double MOS18 - which is obviously also based on scarcity (if you can use that term for either MOS17 and 18). While I do think MOS17 deserves a slight bump over the other books in the DOS arc, it shouldn't be nearly as expensive as it is IMO.

MOS17 is a very very weak cameo - a fist hitting a wall is not a cameo IMO. WIthout CGC noting First Doomsday Cameo it would have little to no value. Again, I think the relative popularity and high census numbers of MOS18 pushed Doomsday collectors to look for something more unique (not that MOS17 is all that unique).

 

With that being said - someone sell me an MOS 18 4th and 5th print in CGC 9.8 I will also take a 9.9 first print (thumbs u

 

It's Doomsday.

 

It's actually an entire page...just like ASM #298. It's a classic cameo. Whether a full body shot is included or not isn't relevant. We know it's Doomsday from the context. People knew it was Doomsday's first appearance long before CGC, and we didn't need CGC to tell us it was "First Doomsday Cameo" to care, because it certainly had value long before CGC. It is quite incorrect to say it would have "little to no value" without the notation.

 

The entire hobby doesn't hinge on label notations, after all.

 

(Man, how could would it have been to be reading ASM when #298 came out, and wondering who the hell was wearing Spidey's symbiote...?)

 

 

I take your point - but I see a difference between ASM 298 (seeing Venom in shadows but seeing his torso up and his face and some dialogue) versus MOS17 (seeing only an arm and a fist 3 times).

 

My value comment was also directed at MOS17 being worth almost double MOS18 - which is obviously also based on scarcity (if you can use that term for either MOS17 and 18). While I do think MOS17 deserves a slight bump over the other books in the DOS arc, it shouldn't be nearly as expensive as it is IMO.

You're saying you believe in the fist bump?

What it's worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. I guess what you're saying is that you value it less on average than other collectors?

Yeah, if memory serves each successive issue had more and more of the containment suit being destroyed with each punch until they showed Doomsday's bone claws and gray color.

You're correct, here are all the teaser pages together.

MOS17 is a very very weak cameo - a fist hitting a wall is not a cameo IMO. WIthout CGC noting First Doomsday Cameo it would have little to no value. Again, I think the relative popularity and high census numbers of MOS18 pushed Doomsday collectors to look for something more unique (not that MOS17 is all that unique).

 

With that being said - someone sell me an MOS 18 4th and 5th print in CGC 9.8 I will also take a 9.9 first print (thumbs u

 

It's Doomsday.

 

It's actually an entire page...just like ASM #298. It's a classic cameo. Whether a full body shot is included or not isn't relevant. We know it's Doomsday from the context. People knew it was Doomsday's first appearance long before CGC, and we didn't need CGC to tell us it was "First Doomsday Cameo" to care, because it certainly had value long before CGC. It is quite incorrect to say it would have "little to no value" without the notation.

 

The entire hobby doesn't hinge on label notations, after all.

 

(Man, how could would it have been to be reading ASM when #298 came out, and wondering who the hell was wearing Spidey's symbiote...?)

 

 

I take your point - but I see a difference between ASM 298 (seeing Venom in shadows but seeing his torso up and his face and some dialogue) versus MOS17 (seeing only an arm and a fist 3 times).

 

My value comment was also directed at MOS17 being worth almost double MOS18 - which is obviously also based on scarcity (if you can use that term for either MOS17 and 18). While I do think MOS17 deserves a slight bump over the other books in the DOS arc, it shouldn't be nearly as expensive as it is IMO.

You're saying you believe in the fist bump?

 

What it's worth is what someone is willing to pay for it. I guess what you're saying is that you value it less on average than other collectors?

I always said it was "a very very weak cameo" and I stand by that. Some may disagree and think that is what a cameo is or there are no distinctions in cameo appearances (I don't). I see a distinct difference between seeing a character's face and having them interact with other characters/have dialogue and a fist hitting a wall three times - but to each their own I guess.

Here is my ticket to the dance. Just got it back from CGC yesterday.

Here is my ticket to the dance. Just got it back from CGC yesterday.

 

Nice. How sure were you that it would come back a 9.8?

Here is my ticket to the dance. Just got it back from CGC yesterday.

 

Nice getting a 9.8 back.

Here is my ticket to the dance. Just got it back from CGC yesterday.

 

 

Nice. How sure were you that it would come back a 9.8?

Thanks. I was about 80% sure it would be a 9.8, 20% chance it was a 9.6. Had it pressed before I subbed it just to make sure.

A few years ago I saw an original unopened case of MOS18 offered on ebay. A case has 300 comics in it. I tried to buy it but it ended up going for much more than I wanted to pay (I kind of wish I would have gotten it though)

The same seller had 3 other cases of Doomsday related Superman comics. He had:

Superman Comics 74

Action Comics 684

Adventures of Superman 497

He priced them at $300 each and I decided to buy them.

I had the grandiose idea that I would buy a press, teach myself how to press, and then become rich as I churned out 9.8 after 9.8, with a couple of 9.9s sprinkled in.

It's good to dream big right?.......

So now three years later, I have a press in my basement that I have basically never used and 900 doomsday related comics (40% of which might be 9.8s, and possibly a couple 9.9s). I experimented a tiny bit with the press but there are SO many variables especially between the different eras of comics that I am leaving pressing to the pros (before I seriously screw something up).

I guess I could just resell these 3 cases, but with the Doomsday news in the BvS movie it's rekindled my interest in the comics.

What do you think? If you were in my position would you even bother with these comics? It would be cool to get a 9.9 but there are no guarantees of that. I noticed on the census that of the 3 comics I mentioned only 1 of them has a 9.9 (Adventured of Superman 497 has one 9.9).

Or, do you think these 3 comics are simply drek?

A few years ago I saw an original unopened case of MOS18 offered on ebay. A case has 300 comics in it. I tried to buy it but it ended up going for much more than I wanted to pay (I kind of wish I would have gotten it though)

 

The same seller had 3 other cases of Doomsday related Superman comics. He had:

Superman Comics 74

Action Comics 684

Adventures of Superman 497

 

He priced them at $300 each and I decided to buy them.

 

I had the grandiose idea that I would buy a press, teach myself how to press, and then become rich as I churned out 9.8 after 9.8, with a couple of 9.9s sprinkled in.

 

It's good to dream big right?.......

 

So now three years later, I have a press in my basement that I have basically never used and 900 doomsday related comics (40% of which might be 9.8s, and possibly a couple 9.9s). I experimented a tiny bit with the press but there are SO many variables especially between the different eras of comics that I am leaving pressing to the pros (before I seriously screw something up).

I guess I could just resell these 3 cases, but with the Doomsday news in the BvS movie it's rekindled my interest in the comics.

 

What do you think? If you were in my position would you even bother with these comics? It would be cool to get a 9.9 but there are no guarantees of that. I noticed on the census that of the 3 comics I mentioned only 1 of them has a 9.9 (Adventured of Superman 497 has one 9.9).

 

Or, do you think these 3 comics are simply drek?

You'd have to front a LOT of money to get them all graded, assuming you think they'll be 9.8's. And then to wait for grading, and the associated risk of 9.6's or lower. Then the time and cost of packing and selling and having 500 more slabs at your home....

If you have a lot of space and a lot of time, you could at best make $10,000-$15000 profit (although in the best case scenario you'd flood the market which may not be great). In the worst case, you've tied up $15K-$20K for at least 4 months to make $3-4K.

Or you could take your $1K investment and sell leading up to the movie and sell the lots (assuming unopened) and profit maybe $2K

Of course these numbers are somewhat dependent on how many 9.8's there are in the packages, and maybe how many 9.9's, and how many you want to get pressed.

If you run an actual comic business, I think I'd strongly consider doing the slabbing, if I thought most were 9.8+. Or if you're hella rich, why not hunt for a few 9.9's in your own backstock?

I would take at least five to ten of my best prospects for 9.8 to 9.9 and have them pressed and graded. The rest just sprinkle onto eBay in the run-up to the movie, selling them raw as "NM/NM+". Sounds like you paid around a dollar an issue?

I guess it also depends on if your goal is to make a profit or to be the owner of a 9.9 or 10.0 of one or more of these issues.

I would take at least five to ten of my best prospects for 9.8 to 9.9 and have them pressed and graded. The rest just sprinkle onto eBay in the run-up to the movie, selling them raw as "NM/NM+". Sounds like you paid around a dollar an issue?

From what I could see about 30-40% might have 9.8 potential (with a press). In a case, many of the comics get crunched corners. Remember nothing is bagged or boarded. And of the 30-40% that have 9.8 potential.... maybe there's a few that have 9.9 potential (and that's out of a total of 900 comics that are "unread").

You might have the right idea Amadeus, maybe I should cull the best 10 from each box, send them off for pressing, and when I send them to CGC have them screened at a 9.8 minimum grade. And then pray for a 9.9 on a couple (even just 1).

I don't have any CGC 9.8 MOS 18

but I've got this....