Walking Dead #1 Black Label vs White Label - an Answer! UPDATED 2/4/14

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You guys are not going to win an argument with him.

 

You are correct Justin..... Nobody will ever be able to prove that I don't like Walking Dead comics....I stand by everything I stated in this thread.

The comment "I like Walking Dead comics" was not ment to be open for discussion.I suggest if you want to continue this behavior we bring it to a PM. By the way I have reviewed My eBay,heritage and clink purchases over the last 12 months...all the data points to one thing"I like Walking Dead comics". I do expect a public apology and if I'm wrong I'll eat Jaydogrules shorts.

JayRod...I'm trying to share "real world" knowledge with you, using more than GPA numbers to back it up.

 

First off I showed you yesterday that black labels were being outnumbered by white labels (currently on the market) by a 7-1 margin. It was like that yesterday, and it was like that 2 years ago, when that's all I did but buy and sell WD books. I got a premium for a black label each and every time. $100 on a 9.6 and $250 on a 9.8.

 

You point to one sale of a black label here on the boards. First off, these boards are the absolute worst place to sell a WD #1 period. 99% of people here who want one for a collection, already have one, everybody else on here is looking to get one cheap enough for a quick flip and make $100 bucks or so.

 

Secondly you keep pointing out GPA numbers, or Ebay sales. Todays market is a lot different than it was five years ago (and again I'm going to use real world knowledge and not "evidence") but in today's day and age it's more important about just owning a copy of the book, and the grade has become almost secondary, the price is what matters most to the average collector. May time I will see people not just my booth but others and ask if you can do any better on a $100 book, because the guy next to you has it priced at $40. What's the condition of his $40 book they get asked, and "I dunno" is usually the answer.

 

Now this doesn't apply to the seasoned, savvy collector who joins a chat board, and knows their comics inside out. To them grade takes precedence over everything, and then price. So in today's world where GPA is 75% Ebay sales, the average Ebayer just wants a copy, any copy and is not worried about the minutiae of black vs white or grade. It's why GPA on a Hulk #181 between a 5.5 and 7.0 is almost the same, when the spreads should be hundreds of dollars. People just want a copy..."ooh shiny" syndrome. Last sales on a 5.5 $1150, 6.0 $1150, 6.5 $1050 and 7.0 $1208, it doesn't make any sense and is stupid in reality.

 

The same theory also applies to your thoughts on the OW-W to White issue...you will argue til your blue in the face that white pages don't command a premium. They do, trust me they do. Maybe not to the average collector and your GPA numbers will protect your stance. But let's say you put a $1000 copy of WWBN #32 on these boards and it has OW-W pages. And 10 seconds later someone posts the exact same book for $1100 with white pages, I guarantee you (eye appeal being the exact same) that 99 times out of a 100, that the white pager for a $100 more sells first EVERY SINGLE time. Again no true "evidence" and just real world experience.

 

Just my two cents, take from it (if anything) what you will.

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim, I actually do agree with the vast majority of your post. I find your statements fair, measured and reasoned. I do not entirely discount "dealer reported data", but I personally give more weight to data that is accessible to the general public. That's just me being a smart consumer and exercising due diligence

As to your point about "people just wanting a copy" as a means of equalizing prices between white labels vs black labels, and various "PQ", and differing grade levels, I say "yes, absolutely" (although I don't think that is the case really for Walking Dead white/black labels, whether there's less of one or the other or not, there just isn't one public data source that I have found where one consistently sells for more than the other, and certainly not for more than a typical margin of error that could just as easily be attributed to standard market fluctuations in pricing). The real point to be made I think, is that the number of "normal, everyday collectors" who just don't care or won't pay a "premium" greatly overwhelm the microcosm of people who are on these boards or at a comic book convention who say they will (or have) paid one. This is why, I would suggest, any claims of "premiums" one way or another are impossible - yes, impossible- to prove with publicly available sales data.

-J.

Jaydog,

Enough mythbusting!!!! All we REALLY want to know is WHEN and for HOW MUCH are you selling each of the books in your signature line.

are you willing to delete your post so I can go back and edit mine.

Done!

are you willing to delete your post so I can go back and edit mine.

 

Done!

Jaydog,

 

Enough mythbusting!!!! All we REALLY want to know is WHEN and for HOW MUCH are you selling each of the books in your signature line.

Neverrrrrrr.

-J.

I feel compelled to do an analysis of price differentiation...

I feel compelled to do an analysis of price differentiation...

Please do. See what I see.

-J.

JayRod...I'm trying to share "real world" knowledge with you, using more than GPA numbers to back it up.

 

First off I showed you yesterday that black labels were being outnumbered by white labels (currently on the market) by a 7-1 margin. It was like that yesterday, and it was like that 2 years ago, when that's all I did but buy and sell WD books. I got a premium for a black label each and every time. $100 on a 9.6 and $250 on a 9.8.

 

You point to one sale of a black label here on the boards. First off, these boards are the absolute worst place to sell a WD #1 period. 99% of people here who want one for a collection, already have one, everybody else on here is looking to get one cheap enough for a quick flip and make $100 bucks or so.

 

Secondly you keep pointing out GPA numbers, or Ebay sales. Todays market is a lot different than it was five years ago (and again I'm going to use real world knowledge and not "evidence") but in today's day and age it's more important about just owning a copy of the book, and the grade has become almost secondary, the price is what matters most to the average collector. May time I will see people not just my booth but others and ask if you can do any better on a $100 book, because the guy next to you has it priced at $40. What's the condition of his $40 book they get asked, and "I dunno" is usually the answer.

 

Now this doesn't apply to the seasoned, savvy collector who joins a chat board, and knows their comics inside out. To them grade takes precedence over everything, and then price. So in today's world where GPA is 75% Ebay sales, the average Ebayer just wants a copy, any copy and is not worried about the minutiae of black vs white or grade. It's why GPA on a Hulk #181 between a 5.5 and 7.0 is almost the same, when the spreads should be hundreds of dollars. People just want a copy..."ooh shiny" syndrome. Last sales on a 5.5 $1150, 6.0 $1150, 6.5 $1050 and 7.0 $1208, it doesn't make any sense and is stupid in reality.

 

The same theory also applies to your thoughts on the OW-W to White issue...you will argue til your blue in the face that white pages don't command a premium. They do, trust me they do. Maybe not to the average collector and your GPA numbers will protect your stance. But let's say you put a $1000 copy of WWBN #32 on these boards and it has OW-W pages. And 10 seconds later someone posts the exact same book for $1100 with white pages, I guarantee you (eye appeal being the exact same) that 99 times out of a 100, that the white pager for a $100 more sells first EVERY SINGLE time. Again no true "evidence" and just real world experience.

 

Just my two cents, take from it (if anything) what you will.

 

Jim

 

 

Hi Jim, I actually do agree with the vast majority of your post. I find your statements fair, measured and reasoned. I do not entirely discount "dealer reported data", but I personally give more weight to data that is accessible to the general public. That's just me being a smart consumer and exercising due diligence

 

As to your point about "people just wanting a copy" as a means of equalizing prices between white labels vs black labels, and various "PQ", and differing grade levels, I say "yes, absolutely" (although I don't think that is the case really for Walking Dead white/black labels, whether there's less of one or the other or not, there just isn't one public data source that I have found where one consistently sells for more than the other, and certainly not for more than a typical margin of error that could just as easily be attributed to standard market fluctuations in pricing). The real point to be made I think, is that the number of "normal, everyday collectors" who just don't care or won't pay a "premium" greatly overwhelm the microcosm of people who are on these boards or at a comic book convention who say they will (or have) paid one. This is why, I would suggest, any claims of "premiums" one way or another are impossible - yes, impossible- to prove with publicly available sales data.

 

-J.

 

Holy cow...did we just kinda agree, and you can be reasonable?

My other point I forgot to make in my post was that I think there would be a much larger disparity that you'd be able to see via "publicly available data" if from the onset CGC noted on their label, if it was a white or black copy.

Just as I know many people are hoarding, and refuse to send in copies of Star Wars #2 until CGC finally denotes on their label "first appearance of Han Solo and Chewbacca". It sounds stupid I know, and most people buying the book know that to be the case, but unless CGC spells it out for the "average collector" they wont be submitted.

Jim

JayRod...I'm trying to share "real world" knowledge with you, using more than GPA numbers to back it up.

 

First off I showed you yesterday that black labels were being outnumbered by white labels (currently on the market) by a 7-1 margin. It was like that yesterday, and it was like that 2 years ago, when that's all I did but buy and sell WD books. I got a premium for a black label each and every time. $100 on a 9.6 and $250 on a 9.8.

 

You point to one sale of a black label here on the boards. First off, these boards are the absolute worst place to sell a WD #1 period. 99% of people here who want one for a collection, already have one, everybody else on here is looking to get one cheap enough for a quick flip and make $100 bucks or so.

 

Secondly you keep pointing out GPA numbers, or Ebay sales. Todays market is a lot different than it was five years ago (and again I'm going to use real world knowledge and not "evidence") but in today's day and age it's more important about just owning a copy of the book, and the grade has become almost secondary, the price is what matters most to the average collector. May time I will see people not just my booth but others and ask if you can do any better on a $100 book, because the guy next to you has it priced at $40. What's the condition of his $40 book they get asked, and "I dunno" is usually the answer.

 

Now this doesn't apply to the seasoned, savvy collector who joins a chat board, and knows their comics inside out. To them grade takes precedence over everything, and then price. So in today's world where GPA is 75% Ebay sales, the average Ebayer just wants a copy, any copy and is not worried about the minutiae of black vs white or grade. It's why GPA on a Hulk #181 between a 5.5 and 7.0 is almost the same, when the spreads should be hundreds of dollars. People just want a copy..."ooh shiny" syndrome. Last sales on a 5.5 $1150, 6.0 $1150, 6.5 $1050 and 7.0 $1208, it doesn't make any sense and is stupid in reality.

 

The same theory also applies to your thoughts on the OW-W to White issue...you will argue til your blue in the face that white pages don't command a premium. They do, trust me they do. Maybe not to the average collector and your GPA numbers will protect your stance. But let's say you put a $1000 copy of WWBN #32 on these boards and it has OW-W pages. And 10 seconds later someone posts the exact same book for $1100 with white pages, I guarantee you (eye appeal being the exact same) that 99 times out of a 100, that the white pager for a $100 more sells first EVERY SINGLE time. Again no true "evidence" and just real world experience.

 

Just my two cents, take from it (if anything) what you will.

 

Jim

 

 

Hi Jim, I actually do agree with the vast majority of your post. I find your statements fair, measured and reasoned. I do not entirely discount "dealer reported data", but I personally give more weight to data that is accessible to the general public. That's just me being a smart consumer and exercising due diligence

 

As to your point about "people just wanting a copy" as a means of equalizing prices between white labels vs black labels, and various "PQ", and differing grade levels, I say "yes, absolutely" (although I don't think that is the case really for Walking Dead white/black labels, whether there's less of one or the other or not, there just isn't one public data source that I have found where one consistently sells for more than the other, and certainly not for more than a typical margin of error that could just as easily be attributed to standard market fluctuations in pricing). The real point to be made I think, is that the number of "normal, everyday collectors" who just don't care or won't pay a "premium" greatly overwhelm the microcosm of people who are on these boards or at a comic book convention who say they will (or have) paid one. This is why, I would suggest, any claims of "premiums" one way or another are impossible - yes, impossible- to prove with publicly available sales data.

 

-J.

 

 

Holy cow...did we just kinda agree, and you can be reasonable?

 

My other point I forgot to make in my post was that I think there would be a much larger disparity that you'd be able to see via "publicly available data" if from the onset CGC noted on their label, if it was a white or black copy.

 

Just as I know many people are hoarding, and refuse to send in copies of Star Wars #2 until CGC finally denotes on their label "first appearance of Han Solo and Chewbacca". It sounds stupid I know, and most people buying the book know that to be the case, but unless CGC spells it out for the "average collector" they wont be submitted.

 

Jim

I think we just did.

-J.

I stand by my reputation as a myth-buster on these boards. It is not necessary for me to catalogue every sale on ebay, comic link, etc for your convenience. You seem to be standing by your spurious claim that black labels always sell at a "premium". This blatant falsehood has "already" been disproven by even "just" the nearly dozen (okay, nine) examples I have already cited where the white labels actually sold for slightly more both in grade and raw. I know how ebay "works" and I watched your multiple price drops in your thread, and noticed how you only (and finally) sold your book after you dropped it below recent white label sales and even linked to that white label sale as justification/support for the pricing of your black label book. So evidently, you know how ebay works as well and should easily be able to find the other dozen or so comparable sales and expired listings on there right now that I didn't feel the need to also cite, as they are duplicative examples that prove the same points.

 

In other words, myth busted. Again.

 

-J.

I don't think you've 'won' just yet…until you prove it (with actual evidence and not just saying 'it's out there.') Until then, we (most of us in this thread) can agree to disagree (with you).

Sidenote - can you quote for me (or tell me when) my 'spurious' claim that the black label sells at a premium over white labels was made?

I feel compelled to do an analysis of price differentiation...

Please do!

Now this doesn't apply to the seasoned, savvy ultra-anal, OCD collector who has money to burn and is willing to actually burn it who joins a chat board, and knows their comics inside out. To them grade takes precedence over everything, and then price. So in today's world where GPA is 75% Ebay sales, the average Ebayer just wants a copy, any copy and is not worried about the minutiae of black vs white or grade. It's why GPA on a Hulk #181 between a 5.5 and 7.0 is almost the same, when the spreads should be hundreds of dollars. People just want a copy..."ooh shiny" syndrome. Last sales on a 5.5 $1150, 6.0 $1150, 6.5 $1050 and 7.0 $1208, it doesn't make any sense and is stupid in reality.

 

Fixed.

I feel compelled to do an analysis of price differentiation...

 

Please do. See what I see.

 

-J.

Long story short: there is a price difference in White Label sales vs Black Label sales for 9.8 copies.

Average of Prices

White $2,032.71

Black $2,337.67

Long story: using the confirmed label color status from the first page of this thread (I didn't want to take the time to confirm more label colors), I looked up the corresponding sales prices from GPA between 2013 and now. I used this time period because that is when the prices stabilized around $2k.

Here is the pricing data. There were 113 data points used from the 241 that were available in GPA:

Some additional information:

Year 2013

Labels Average of Price

white $2,088.91

black $2,389.64

Grand Total $2,132.43

Year 2014

Labels Average of Price

white $1,918.92

black $2,194.75

Grand Total $1,955.70

Year 2015

Labels Average of Price

white $1,990.44

black $1,985.33

Grand Total $1,989.17

Months Oct - Mar (while show is on air)

Labels Average of Price

white $2,007.42

black $2,196.00

Grand Total $2,032.57

Month Apr - Sep (while show is off air)

Labels Average of Price

white $2,066.65

black $2,345.30

Grand Total $2,114.69

Bravo, I applaud the work you put into this bffnut!

It's really cool to see broken down this way. Curious to know how many sales were not labeled B or W label and went for an average GPA price at the time of sale compared to if it was labeled B or not. I've personally seen a few B labels that were not listed as such and went for the ballpark average for a 9.8 To me, I'd love either one in my PC, yet I'm holding out for the James Collection. It's like Pedigree but much more elite as I'm sure you all know what it will take to get his into the publics hands

I also think it's interesting that, of the 113 data points listed in the spoiler tag, only 18 of them are black label.

For anyone that doesn't think the black is rarer than the white, that's a pretty solid sample size that points to the contrary.

Can't wait for the rebuttal argument.