n2wdw's comic book room

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Gwen Stacy's First Appearance

Gwen Stacy's first apperance is, of course, Amazing Spider-Man 31. If you're a Gwen completist like me, you can't stop with ASM 31, you also need the reprints. There are no better reprints for Spidey than Marvel Tales. And, for ASM 31, the reprint is Marvel Tales 170. Here are both comics.

It's easy to tell Marvel Tales 170 is a reprint of ASM 31 from the cover. But Marvel Tales was all over the place with reprinting ASM, as there were a number of re-starts and jumping around. In fact, there was at least one other reprint of Gwen's first appearance, in Marvel Tales 24. (I tried to get CGC to note that MT 24 reprints ASM 31 but, alas, CGC doesn't listen to me.)

Graded copies of Marvel Tales are somewhat rare. There are only 14 CGC copies of Marvel Tales 24. There are just FOUR copies of MT 170.

Trying to find high grade raw copies to grade is just as hard. Which makes sense, since reprints were meant to be read, not bagged and boarded.

Fluctuations in Registry Points and a Dave Stevens Mystery

Do registry points fluctuate for comics, like they do in Overstreet or GPA with the monetary value going up or down with the market?

I've wondered about that, and I guess they must. Because yesterday, my overall Registry ranking was #328 with 53,149. Today, my ranking is #314 with 57,120 points! Wow!

I don't have the time to go through all my books to see which ones changed, and I probably wouldn't remember the original scores anyway. Also, this could just be a temporary glitch in the system. Well see ....

On another topic, here are a couple of recent pickups for the GGA fans out there. I won this Claire Voyant on eBay for a pretty good price, no doubt because of the low grade, but I think the condition (at least the front cover) looks better than CGC 2.5.

Here's an oddity. The Dave Stevens Covers set has a slot for "Last of the Viking Heroes (Genesis West) 5 Variant Cover." Here's the regular cover, and it's no doubt by Stevens.

But what's the Stevens' variant cover? There's only 1 variant cover for #5 of this series, and as far as I can tell it's not by Dave Stevens (instead the listed covered artist is Michael Thibodeaux).

I was curious, so I submitted my copy to CGC. I recently got it back and tried inputting it into the variant cover slot for #5. It worked! The cover art certainly does seem Dave Steven-ish (ahem ...). Maybe Stevens contributed to the cover, and whoever originally created the CGC set knew that and included it? Anyway, here's the variant for #5.

Fluctuations in Registry Points - Mystery Solved!

I wrote above about how on May 14th I had 53,149 Registry points. The next day, my points jumped to 57,120 points without adding any new comics. What happened?

I figured it out. A few of my books got bump ups.

The biggest was Brave & the Bold 28 (1st Justice League) CGC 6.5. This one got a bump up of 3750 points.

My Amazing Spider-Man set got a bump up of 185 points, and my Walking Dead set got a bump up of 36. (I can't tell which books got the increases as I have multiple books in both sets, whereas for B&B I only have the 28).

I went over to the "This Score Needs Fixing" thread to see what people said. http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8147380&fpart=1

I found the reading fascinating. As expected, there was lobbying for B&B 28 and various Walking Dead comics. I've copied below some of the relevant quotes from those posts.

Since I've gotten interested in the Registry, I've thought about whether the CGC Registry represents a list of the best comic collections in the world. The answer, IMHO, is absolutely NO.

How CGC assigns points is somewhat a mystery. Also, CGC considers some things (like SS) and not others (like pedigree). But, I don't really fault the Registry for those things. CGC has to assign points using some process. Their process has pluses and minuses, but then that would be true of any process. I certainly don't fault CGC for keeping their process mostly secret. Publicizing their process would not at all stem the debate, and in fact would probably cause even more controversy.

In my opinion, the CGC Registry is not a good measure of the top collections in the world for 2 reasons: (1) Not all collectors participate in the Registry, and I suspect many if not most of the really high end collectors do not; and (2) Even for those collectors who participate, they participate with only parts of their collections. Take me for example. I have complete or near complete runs of Avengers, Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Thor, Justice League, plus dozens more Silver, Bronze and Modern Age titles and hundreds of Golden Age comics. But I've graded only a small portion of my collection. I suspect this is true for most long term collectors.

So what is the Registry? It's just a list of the top CGC collections in the world. And for what it is, it's probably pretty accurate (even though certainly not all CGC comic owners participate in the Registry). Maybe this is all obvious stuff. But I read some of the strongly worded comments about how the Registry isn't perfect or fair for this reason or that, and I think, "calm down." The Registry is not a true measure of your collection. It's just a fun thing to do with your CGC comics.

Do you know what the true measure of your collection is (other than the financial aspects)? For me, it's when your friends walk into your comic book room, and they say with awe, "OMG this is the most amazing thing I've ever seen." That look is priceless.

Brave & the Bold #28 (DONE)

 

I see you have updated the scores for BB28, thank you. However the increase was nominal, maybe 25%. The new scores are still way under the marketplace. I think a 150% increase is still required.

Example Current 8.0 score is 8,400. Last sale in 8.0 was over 19,000 .

Current 7.5 score is 5,000, last sale is over 13,000 .

Scores can not be based on sales data alone. Yes, the book does very well when it is brought to market but there are other factors as well.

BB28 is a key book as we all know. It is also very hard to obtain in higher grades. The highest graded copy is only a 9.4. No 9.6s and certainly no 9.8s. There are only a little over 500 copies of this book graded to date and competition for ownership is fierce especially in the higher grades.

With the advent of the JLA movie, demand for this book will certainly increase.

Not sure a 250% increase is justified but certainly a re-review of the points allocated.

Gemma,

 

I think that a few of the Walking Dead issues need score increases. The issues that I'm referring to for consideration are:

 

Walking Dead #48 (Death of the Governor & a score of other characters)

Walking Dead Governor Special #1 Green Foil Edition (Emerald City Comic Con Variant)

Walking Dead #1 10th Anniversary Edition (Regular & Convention Sketch Editions)

Walking Dead #1 Image Expo (Regular & Sketch Editions)

Walking Dead #1 Escape Edition (Regular & Sketch Editions)

 

Here is my rationale for each issue.

 

For Walking Dead #48, the past sales on eBay (that we can see completed sales for) have averaged out to be $197.40. This book should rate higher on the point scale as a reflection of both the sales and the key significance of the issue. In #48 there occurs the death of the first major antagonist of the story as well as the destruction of the town of Woodbury. This turning point is the end to a pivotal arc in the series and this issue continues to be a hot seller.

In my opinion, this issue should have point values earning somewhere around 320 points for a 9.8 universal copy (the same point values assigned to Walking Dead #53 would be a fair reference point as the #48 issue sells for right around or slightly higher than issue 53 does).

Here is the link to past sales on eBay highlighting the recent $225 high sale price & the $145 low sale price edition)

The Walking Dead #48 past eBay sales

 

For the Walking Dead Governor Special #1 ECCC Edition, I believe the points should be raised to close to what I'm proposing to the #48 issue. All past sales indicate an average end price of $160 (see the below link to the past sales data). Currently it only gets the same point value of the much lesser valued Hastings variant.

Walking Dead Governor Special #1 ECCC Edition recent eBay sales data

 

For the Walking Dead #1 10th Anniversary Editions, the Walking Dead #1 Image Expo Editions, and the Walking Dead #1 Escape Editions, I believe those should command the same point scales as all the other con exclusives (with a 9.8 being worth 48 points as opposed to the 32). For the most part these all sell at the same prices as the others and for continuity sake should command the same point scales, in my opinion.

 

For what it's worth there are other Walking Dead issues that should command more points than they currently do but in my opinion it is these issues that need the most important revisions to their point values for the time being.

 

Thank you for the consideration - I hope that my rationale provides the necessary information for the possibility of their increases. I appreciate all your help with the registry and making this fun for us Walking Dead fans! \:\)

Joseph Lisner

I've never been a big Lisner fan -- never liked the bloody tear thing of Dawn -- but I really like his non-Dawn covers. Recently I picked up the Steed and Mrs. Peel series. They were offered on eBay as a set. Because of that, I think I might have gotten a slightly better deal compared to buying them individually. When books are offered as a set, you immediately eliminate as potential bidders people who already have some of the issues. But who knows, I don't think it made a big difference.

I think I just contributed to you slipping in the Spider-Gwen registry the other day. I just sold a set of all 3 Phantom variants in 9.8 on eBay to the guy with the top spot. I just transferred all of the registrations to him yesterday or the day before.

Well, thanks alot!

Actually I'm not worried about it. I think Spider-Gwen prices are slipping (there's so much inventory out there, I think supply is exceeding demand). So I think I'll wait a while before trying to add to my set (other than a couple I submitted to CGC myself).

It'll be interesting to watch this Spider-Gwen set. With the supply so plentiful, all it takes is money and a few clicks on eBay and you can challenge for the top spot. There's nothing wrong with that, the same can be said for alot of modern sets -- like with Lady Mechanika for example. Although with LM there are a few issues you have to hunt for. With Spider-Gwen, it seems all the issues are available on eBay.

Again, nothing wrong with that. But for me I'll wait to see if prices come down before trying to expand my set. It's not like there's not alot of other stuff to collect.

Like this one, my first entry into the Milo Manara cover set. Right now there are only 3 people competing. So far the other 2 collectors are focusing on Manara's modern covers, which makes sense (they're available, although expensive). The older comics will be tougher to get. Almost certainly I'd have to buy raw and submit myself. I'm not sure how serious I'll get about this set, we'll see.

Death of Gwen Stacy

I wrote above about ASM 31, the first appearance of Gwen. The main reprint of that is Marvel Tales 170. This comic doesn't appear to be on many want lists, as there are only 4 graded copies.

That's surprising to me. With the heightened interest in Gwen Stacy, you'd think collectors would want a graded MT 170 to go along with their graded ASM 31. But that's not the case. Instead it's her death where all the interest is, ASM 121.

As anyone who's shopping for this knows, ASM 121 is going for steep prices nowadays. The same is true for the reprint, Marvel Tales 98 which goes for upwards of $200. I bought a raw copy recently and crossed my fingers as I submitted it to CGC. It came back 9.8. Whew. I would have lived with 9.6, but I really wanted 9.8.

There are 20 graded copies of MT 98. So, there's not a huge interest, this is really for the Gwen Stacy completist. Still, it surprises me the interest in her death is 5x more the interest in her first appearance.

By the way, the death of Gwen is really over ASM 121 and 122. The reprint of ASM 122 is Marvel Tales 99. There are 14 graded copies. I managed to pick up a copy on eBay a few months ago without breaking the bank. I don't actually have a copy of ASM 122. That's one of the 6 ASM issues I need for a complete run.

Congratulations on the bookend 9.8s for your MT98 and 99... great looking copy on that 121 and your ASM31 looks terrific as well!

I really like the cover of that issue and it's starting to climb a little.

Awesome Con (Washington DC) - Short Con Report

Awesome Con (Washington DC) - Short Con Report

Yesterday I went to Awesome con for a few hours. I hadn't planned to go due to a work conflict. But that meeting got rescheduled so I had the afternoon free. I decided to go for a couple hours since the DC Convention Center is just a few blocks from my office.

The con opened at 12 noon. I expected huge crowds, like WW Philly. But when I arrived around 1230 there were no lines. I walked right up to the ticket counter, bought my 1 day pass ($35), then walked into the dealer room (again no lines). At that moment on early Friday afternoon, the con had sparse crowds.

The dealer room is a huge space, and the small press/artist alley area seemed to take about 1/3 of the flloor in the back (with food vendors on the sides). Being only there for a couple of hours I decided not to venture over to there. I browsed mostly the comics dealers. To be honest I wasn't really into it, as I was still in the work frame of mind. Most of the dealers seemed to be of the $1, $3 and $5 box variety, although there were a few high end dealers (like Greg Reece).

I bought a few modern comics for my next CGC submission. I thought about buying one major book. There was 1 book I found tempting, this Marvel Mystery 82 with the first appearance of Namora. This particular dealer had alot of interesting GA and SA books, but his prices were high (IMHO). For example, he had this MM 82 priced at $1800. That's about twice GPA. True, GPA doesn't have alot of data points for this book, but for a raw copy (where you don't know if there's restoration) his price was so high I couldn't muster the energy to make an offer. If I'd been there for the weekend (instead of just a few hours), I might have tried to put together a small pile and made an offer.

After a couple of hours, I was ready to go. I had to get back to work.

So, that's my con report. I didn't have much fun, but again I was still in work mode. I'm sure people will have fun this weekend. The guest list looks pretty good, and there are enough dealers there to keep things interesting.

Here are a few pictures I took while I was browsing around. Thanks for reading.

Thanks for the report. Those last two pics are of my friend Jason's booth. Stop by and say hello. He knows a ton about comics and happy to geek out. That's a pre hero Kirby piece up top and a Ditko.

I went Friday too and went solely for the comics ignoring everything else. I did notice that the prices at a lot of the booths for non-key SA and BA raws seemed inflated by 15-30%. I even had to look a couple of items up on ebay and OSPG to see if I was just missing something and found some cheaper slabbed in the same grade online. I asked a few dealers if some of the books I wanted had suddenly gotten hot but they said no that was just what they were asking. I figured this is due to either the fact that it's the first day of a 3 day con and dealers are fishing or it's the built-in margin allowing for negotiation. What I found was every time I asked if there was wiggle room they readily knocked 10-20% off which brought it closer to OSPG but only if paying in cash. But when I tried negotiating further, it became a real haggle. I got some to budge but most were firm. They'd probably be more generous on day 3 but I couldn't make it on Sunday.

Oh yeah and Jason is really cool. I always end up buying something from him.

loadstone:

Thanks for your report. Frankly, I found the prices at Awesome Con (as well as your report) discouraging. As a buyer, when I negotiate, my goal is to get under OSPG and GPA, not just get to these benchmarks.

Having said that, people can certainly price their comics for whatever they want. But we have a more competitve market now. I'm starting to wonder -- for comic buying purposes -- if cons are still a competitive option. More and more frequently, I can get better prices on eBay, CLink, CConnect, and other internet vendors.

Cons are fun, and I plan to keep going. But maybe I'll start going to cons for things other than comics.

Here are some examples. I got these recently on eBay, for about or less than the cost of grading and shipping. I'm certain if these were offered at a con, they'd be priced at least twice what I paid on eBay, if you could find them in graded form (another one of my pet peeves, con dealers often price raws as if they were graded).

I think you can still get good deals at cons. But as I'm shopping, I'm always on my phone checking comparables on eBay and GPA.

Bobbing Up and Down the Waves of the CGC Registry

I find it interesting to watch my overall CGC Registry position. Right now at the moment I'm #309, but the last few days I've gone up and down not because of my point score (even though I did add a 128 point comic the other day), but because of what other collectors are doing. The Registry is, IMHO, a fascinating window into the collecting lives of other comic fans.

As I browse the registry, I'm more drawn to collectors who are like me, those who have build their registry positions on the backs of alot of comics. Like DBoy with 535 comics and ganache with 607 (at the moment I have 555). But I think my CGC collection may be somewhat unique (or strange, depending on what your perspective is). My collection is spread over 4 pages of sets. Most other people with about the same number of comics are spread over 1 or 2 pages.

On the other end of the spectrum are those with just a few comics, like TheSurgeon with only 38 comics (and 58,845 points) and 1helluvaguy with only 2 comics (60,050 points). While it's a free country, it's frustrating when people Obscure their sets (like1helluvaguy's). Although, of these 2 collectors, I'm more taken by TheSurgeon, not because of his collection, but because his name kind of freaks me out. I guess I've read too many EC comics.

My near term goal is to move from the 4th page to the 3rd page of the Registry. I have a few CGC invoices out there, as well as some C-Connect wins this month, so hopefully that will happen this summer. Thanks for reading.

 

On the other end of the spectrum are those with just a few comics, like TheSurgeon with only 38 comics (and 58,845 points) and 1helluvaguy with only 2 comics (60,050 points). While it's a free country, it's frustrating when people Obscure their sets (like1helluvaguy's). Although, of these 2 collectors, I'm more taken by TheSurgeon, not because of his collection, but because his name kind of freaks me out. I guess I've read too many EC comics.

 

My near term goal is to move from the 4th page to the 3rd page of the Registry. I have a few CGC invoices out there, as well as some C-Connect wins this month, so hopefully that will happen this summer. Thanks for reading.

It's hard to resist the temptation going for more points and a better Registry position - actually this competitive aspect works well at keeping me from buying CBCS books, I can't fit them into my runs. I'm at 80k, would like to go for 100k just for the fun of it, but my problem is that I've more or less run out of books to buy that I truly care about (seems that many collectors are not selling books right now - at least not the Spidey books I'm looking for). And I'm not going to buy books that only matter to me as some sort of investment just to get the points Well, maybe I'll buy some more Spidey books one day and get to page 2 Good luck with your collection (thumbs u

Hey Rune - Yes, I feel the same way about CBCS books. Partially it's the Registry, but also because I don't think CBCS has the same upward influence on prices as CGC (this is easy to see, just compare prices on eBay).

I'm mostly a completist collector, and I have a few major books still to get to complete some of my Marvel SA titles, most notably FF #1 and Hulk 181. Those will get me alot of points but it'll depend on how much money I'm willing to spend. I see your point though, eventually you run out of books to buy. The only book I've bought for points that completely doesn't fit in my collection is Casper's Ghostland 25. If I could do that one over again I probably wouldn't have bought it.

Sunday Wins and One of Those eBay Sellers

Today has been a good day for eBay. It seems no one else is bidding today? Not that I'm always bidding on Sunday, but today I didn't have much else to do (other than grill fish for dinner) and it seems I lucked out. Here is my biggest win today, X-Men 142. I decided to "settle" for 9.6 as there's a big cliff in price from 9.8 to 9.6. I almost won 141 in CGC 9.6 too, but lost out in the last seconds (so I guess there are other people bidding today).

So, in another eBay transaction, I recently won a CGC SS Superman comic signed by Brandon Routh & Kate Bosworth. I got it for a good price. The next day, the seller canceled the transaction, saying he cracked the case when he was preparing it for shipping. I agreed to the cancellation, but I was suspicious, so I watched the seller's other items. The very next day, the seller relisted the book, for a starting bid of $30 more than what I won it for.

I confronted the seller via email, and he gave me a lame story that he had submitted it to CGC for re-slabbing. Problem was, the seller's feedback showed he did this exact same thing in 2 other transactions (for different SS books). Whatever. I gave the seller negative feedback and (after this post) I'm not going to think about it anymore. Most eBay sellers are honest, but this just proves that some are not and, worse, they will lie to your face.

That's a great looking X-Men 142... perfect centering and white pages!

I didn't realize that sellers can cancel transactions after you win an item. So what's the point of listing it as an auction?

Sorry that happened to you.

I gave the seller negative feedback and (after this post) I'm not going to think about it anymore. Most eBay sellers are honest, but this just proves that some are not and, worse, they will lie to your face.

I would have done the same. If I win an item and I do not receive it, the outcome will typically be negative for me - no matter if I get a full refund or the seller has other excuses.

More on One of Those eBay Sellers / Top Registry Spots / Howard Chaykin

Hibou - I guess eBay sellers can cancel an auction under certain circumstances. Here, the seller said he accidentally cracked the case. The buyer has to agree to the cancellation. This has happened to me a few times over the years. But, this is the first time I'm sure the seller was lying. He canceled the sale because the closing bid was lower than he wanted.

And that's the part I don't get. As a seller, if you have a minimum price, then just make that your opening bid. How hard is that? As a potential bidder, a high opening bid won't turn me away if what I'm willing to pay is higher than your opening bid.

On a related note are the reserve prices in auctions. In my opinion, reserves turn potential bidders away; people don't even bother to bid. So, instead of using a reserve, just set the minimum bid to the lowest you'll take.

Rune - Your approach makes sense, although I admit I'm pretty lazy when it comes to giving feedback. The seller has to do something really special (either special good or special bad) for me to leave feedback. One time I made a mistake an accidentally bid on a comic I already had. I emailed the seller, explained the situation and offered to pay 10% of the final price if he would cancel the sale (it came to $20). He agreed, I paid the $20 and also left him glowing feedback.

You know, if the seller in my case had emailed me and said he really couldn't sell it for the final bid because he was losing his shirt, I would have voluntarily agreed to cancel the sale and not left negative feedback. We're all human and this is just a hobby, I'm not out to hurt anyone (and this was a private seller; I wouldn't giveback for big companies like C-Link). Like alot in life, it's all about communication.

Anyway, the 2015 Registry competition is now closed. I recently browsed through all my sets on the Control Panel. I was surprised to find I have the top spot in almost a dozen sets. But, for most of them, it's because not many are competing. In fact, I'm not really competing either, I'm just using the sets as places to park my CGC comics.

One set I am actively working on is Howard Chaykin's Satellite Sam series. IMHO, Chaykin is an under-appreciated writer and GGA artist. A couple months back I picked up an original art page from Satellite Sam #4. For only $31! it was one of my best buys of 2015.