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Valiant first appearances (quick version for beginners) Now with pictures!
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The current Livewire is essentially "all-new". Harbinger #3 (2012) is her first appearance.

 

She's is basically a combination of Livewire and Randy Cartier from the 1990s Valiant.

Neither of those is a very good match to the current Livewire.

Livewire of the 1990s has the right name (Amanda McKee, Livewire), but she's white.

Randy Cartier of the 1990s has the right characteristics (black woman, controlled the X-O armor), but the wrong name.

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What is considered the true first appearance of Livewire? I'm talking about the Livewire that has become such a prominent player in the current VEI universe. Is it Harbinger (V1) #15 or Harbinger (VEI) #3?

 

Harbinger (V1) #15 is listed as the first Livewire, but I just read that book and, unless I missed something, there is nobody referred to as Livewire in that book. There is an Amanda who makes a quick appearance, but she's white! The current Livewire (also named Amanda) is African-American. I never read the original Harbinger series so I don't know if that Amanda from Harbinger #15 becomes Livewire and what her powers are. Does she have the same powers as the VEI Amanda/Livewire?

 

I'm just trying to figure out if the new Amanda/Livewire is an updated version of the same character from the V1 universe, or a brand new character.

For what it's worth, on the latest issue of Unity with the Valiant 25th anniversary variant cover, it notes that Livewire was established in 1993. But as with some other characters, there are significant differences in the old and new characters. So you're looking at potentially two keys. Three, perhaps, if you consider her appearance in #15 of the original series as a cameo, which it pretty much is. She's in action in the next issue.

Edited by GeeksAreMyPeeps
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The current Livewire is essentially "all-new". Harbinger #3 (2012) is her first appearance.

 

She's is basically a combination of Livewire and Randy Cartier from the 1990s Valiant.

Neither of those is a very good match to the current Livewire.

Livewire of the 1990s has the right name (Amanda McKee, Livewire), but she's white.

Randy Cartier of the 1990s has the right characteristics (black woman, controlled the X-O armor), but the wrong name.

 

 

Thanks for the info! I wasn't aware of the Randy Cartier character. I see she first appeared in X-O (V1) #21 and had a pretty significant role in that series.

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What is considered the true first appearance of Livewire? I'm talking about the Livewire that has become such a prominent player in the current VEI universe. Is it Harbinger (V1) #15 or Harbinger (VEI) #3?

 

Harbinger (V1) #15 is listed as the first Livewire, but I just read that book and, unless I missed something, there is nobody referred to as Livewire in that book. There is an Amanda who makes a quick appearance, but she's white! The current Livewire (also named Amanda) is African-American. I never read the original Harbinger series so I don't know if that Amanda from Harbinger #15 becomes Livewire and what her powers are. Does she have the same powers as the VEI Amanda/Livewire?

 

I'm just trying to figure out if the new Amanda/Livewire is an updated version of the same character from the V1 universe, or a brand new character.

For what it's worth, on the latest issue of Unity with the Valiant 25th anniversary variant cover, it notes that Livewire was established in 1993. But as with some other characters, there are significant differences in the old and new characters. So you're looking at potentially two keys. Three, perhaps, if you consider her appearance in #15 of the original series as a cameo, which it pretty much is. She's in action in the next issue.

 

 

I may have to pick up Harbinger (V1) #16! Thanks!

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The current Livewire is essentially "all-new". Harbinger #3 (2012) is her first appearance.

 

She's is basically a combination of Livewire and Randy Cartier from the 1990s Valiant.

Neither of those is a very good match to the current Livewire.

Livewire of the 1990s has the right name (Amanda McKee, Livewire), but she's white.

Randy Cartier of the 1990s has the right characteristics (black woman, controlled the X-O armor), but the wrong name.

 

 

Thanks for the info! I wasn't aware of the Randy Cartier character. I see she first appeared in X-O (V1) #21 and had a pretty significant role in that series.

i think you mean X-O #12, correct?

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What is considered the true first appearance of Livewire? I'm talking about the Livewire that has become such a prominent player in the current VEI universe. Is it Harbinger (V1) #15 or Harbinger (VEI) #3?

 

Harbinger (V1) #15 is listed as the first Livewire, but I just read that book and, unless I missed something, there is nobody referred to as Livewire in that book. There is an Amanda who makes a quick appearance, but she's white! The current Livewire (also named Amanda) is African-American. I never read the original Harbinger series so I don't know if that Amanda from Harbinger #15 becomes Livewire and what her powers are. Does she have the same powers as the VEI Amanda/Livewire?

 

I'm just trying to figure out if the new Amanda/Livewire is an updated version of the same character from the V1 universe, or a brand new character.

For what it's worth, on the latest issue of Unity with the Valiant 25th anniversary variant cover, it notes that Livewire was established in 1993. But as with some other characters, there are significant differences in the old and new characters. So you're looking at potentially two keys. Three, perhaps, if you consider her appearance in #15 of the original series as a cameo, which it pretty much is. She's in action in the next issue.

 

 

I may have to pick up Harbinger (V1) #16! Thanks!

If you're looking to collect first appearances, you're probably best off picking up 15 & 16. I've never seen anyone else mention that her appearance in 15 is a cameo, but that's my take based on recently re-reading the issue. (#15 is Stronghold's first full appearance, anyway – he has a final page cameo in 14 – and he does play a role in the current books, but not a huge one yet, so 15 is still key.) Either way, 16 is her first cover appearance.

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The current Livewire is essentially "all-new". Harbinger #3 (2012) is her first appearance.

 

She's is basically a combination of Livewire and Randy Cartier from the 1990s Valiant.

Neither of those is a very good match to the current Livewire.

Livewire of the 1990s has the right name (Amanda McKee, Livewire), but she's white.

Randy Cartier of the 1990s has the right characteristics (black woman, controlled the X-O armor), but the wrong name.

 

 

Thanks for the info! I wasn't aware of the Randy Cartier character. I see she first appeared in X-O (V1) #21 and had a pretty significant role in that series.

i think you mean X-O #12, correct?

That right, Randy Cartier first appearance is in X-O #12.

x-o12.jpg

 

She's wearing the X-O armor on X-O #21, but that was several months later.

x-o21.jpg

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Flea market pick up, 50 cents each.

 

I notice the copy on the left has gold eyes instead of red and the gun holster is also gold instead of brown.

 

B545CBE4-7A23-4A8B-ACAA-055B2F27D599.jpg

That's a nice trade-off for when the red was running low.

It's a printing variation caused by "not enough red", but the result is "gold eyes" which is pretty nifty. (thumbs u

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Have the various cameo appearances of new characters in the original valiant universe always been more desirable than their first full appearances.

 

i.e. E/W and X-O #4 seem more sought after than Rai #0 and Shadowman #1

 

Or is this something new as I hear people talk more fondly about Rai #0, when discussing Bloodshot, but the market seems to be forging ahead with E/W. Am I missing something?

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Have the various cameo appearances of new characters in the original valiant universe always been more desirable than their first full appearances.

 

i.e. E/W and X-O #4 seem more sought after than Rai #0 and Shadowman #1

 

Or is this something new as I hear people talk more fondly about Rai #0, when discussing Bloodshot, but the market seems to be forging ahead with E/W. Am I missing something?

 

I think in the two cases you mention above it has more to do with print run and the availability of high grade copies. There is no shortage of high grade copies of Rai #0. We may see that to be the case with EW#4 in time. Rai #0 has always been a very collectable issue for reasons other than being Bloodshot's 1st full appearance so it has been hoarded since day one.

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Rai #0 is still best Valiant V1 book hands down! but folks are now chasing after lower print runs. The print run wasn't that drastic between these books that you mentioned but the perception is for some reason.

Edited by 1p36DSA
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Have the various cameo appearances of new characters in the original valiant universe always been more desirable than their first full appearances.

 

i.e. E/W and X-O #4 seem more sought after than Rai #0 and Shadowman #1

 

Or is this something new as I hear people talk more fondly about Rai #0, when discussing Bloodshot, but the market seems to be forging ahead with E/W. Am I missing something?

People talking fondly about Rai #0 are people that read the books. Some of the market is based on what people want and a larger part is based on what people think people want, which may explain the additional attention on EW #4.Traditionally it could probably be argued that cameo firsts were more sought after, but large factors in that are:

• people went after Valiant first appearances back in the day the way people go after first appearances now, once a character has been announced to be in a movie

• Valiant would often release news of a new series, but not where the character was first appearing

• When the cameo dropped, people would hoard that first issue as soon as the news was out that the new character was in it, but the subsequent issue with the full, everyone had the chance to pre-order, so those that wanted them got them. Therefore, the cameo was the one people had to hunt for. It was never so much an issue of a cameo vs. a full, but rather an issue of who had the books that people wanted. After 20-25 years a lot of those issues have gotten into the hands of the people that wanted them

 

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I am still trying to find some of these books graded. If there are so many copies out there why isn't anyone grading them?

 

Great point- I have a truckload of EW 4, Rai 0, Bloodshot 6, and Archer and Armstrong 0 at CGC as we speak. I've been pleasantly surprised at the lack of graded copies

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The difference between Rai 0 and EW 4 is that we all knew about Rai 0, & it was pre-ordered & speculated on from day 1.

 

Even with that, it popped to $8 within a month and was always seen as key.

 

So you'll find very few Valiant collections without at least 1-2 copies of Rai 0.

 

In contrast, nobody knew EW 4 would be "important" and it didn't get hot until a few months after publication, when Wizard started pumping it.

 

So, not at all surprising that 20+ years later there are far fewer copies of EW 4 slabbed, let alone in grade.

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I remember EW5 being pumped WAYYYYYY more than 4 back in the 90's.

 

But as far as 1st Appearances go, I nabbed a X-O 4 at a local con today for $17.50! A Rai #1 for $17.50, both NM+ or better!

 

 

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I paid $25 for my 9.6 Rai #0 on the day the investment was announced from a dealer's site and that was the only one I could find. My guess is there are not a lot that were slabbed as it was such a plentiful book - I have seen two stores with long boxes of overstock of that issue in the past.

Edited by kimik
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I'm wondering if there are going to be appearances of other key Valiant characters other than Harbinger and Bloodshot in the upcoming movies, sort of like how Valiant would slip in a quick cameo appearance in the comics when they introduced a new character.

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