Mark Jewelers inserts...

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Found this one today while re-bagging - newsstand edition and Mark Jewelers Insert:

 

 

 

Pretty cool.

 

And no, as of now CGC would not grade a comic missing the insert as "incomplete" even if they could tell one was once there. Although, IMO, if one was once there and it no longer is, that is an incomplete comic.

 

-J.

That's good to know, thanks J. (thumbs u I did just noticed one of my comics has a Blue Star stamp on the top right hand corner next to the price. And I checked inside to see If I scored a MJ insert ! but no there was nothing that's why I asked. The comic was Daredevil #138 & I know there's lots of MJ inserts on those books. I had a comic few years ago with a MJ insert in it, but the order coupon was cut out. I must of throw it out would CGC give me a hard time stating that's incomplete ?

That's good to know, thanks J. (thumbs u I did just noticed one of my comics has a Blue Star stamp on the top right hand corner next to the price. And I checked inside to see If I scored a MJ insert ! but no there was nothing that's why I asked. The comic was Daredevil #138 & I know there's lots of MJ inserts on those books. I had a comic few years ago with a MJ insert in it, but the order coupon was cut out. I must of throw it out would CGC give me a hard time stating that's incomplete ?

 

Yes that one would definitely get a green label.

 

-J.

A publicitary insert of this kind is not "part of the book" as it was not meant to be in all copies, so I can’t see why they should judge it as "incomplete".

It’s not like, say, the tattooz in ASM #238, which are part of the entire print run: only a part of the print run of these books had the ad inserts of National Diamonds / Mark Jewelers, and they are an added element. :shrug:

Well yes, 5% or less of certain books were printed with the inserts, but they were still printed "with" the inserts- stapled in at the centerfold as you can see from divad's picture above, they are part of the comic. If there was some definitive and consistent way of knowing when the insert isn't there when it is supposed to be, I have no doubt CGC would indicate on a label if/when it was missing. Probably even give the book a qualified grade if it was missing. But since it is nearly impossible to tell that, they don't.

 

Or as put as a hypothetical- if you happened to find a book with an insert at an LCS and took up to the front to pay for it, and the cashier pulled out the insert (that pesky advertisement) right in front of you, would you still be interested in buying that comic? Even if the book was otherwise completely un-damaged, would you still purchase that comic, or want to pay the same asking price ? Probably not.

 

-J.

A common reader would – in most cases – don’t care, but I don’t think it’s the right way to pose the question.

This was a common situation with many italian comics: there were certain advertising inserts which were added only for a small portion or the print run, or in certain regions of Italy, or more than an insert in the same issue according to the zone / circumstance etc.

Generally speaking, what is part of the book are the ads which are printed in its pages… added portions which are 100% advertising, and not officially "endorsed" by the publisher as part of the "in-built" advertising are not part of the comic in its essence, but an added element. Obviously this is relevant for a collector, especially on an historical perspective, but since they are additional I believe it is fair that they just demand a premium but they should not be considered "part of the book" in its organic.

 

Here the issues without these inserts are the rule and considered complete, but of course certain collectors are willing to pay crazy prices for these.

 

There are also other cases, where the element/insert was actually part of the book (like the ASM tattooz, for example), but we have cases in Italy where the gadget/insert is SO rare that a copy with the gadget is considered an exception and often is proposed by a dealer which manages to find a copy at 80-100 multiples of the normal price (i.e. a 10 Euro book is offered at 1000 Euro).

I would say that, literally, yes you are correct and I agree with you for the most part. However I have to say for me personally, if I ever came across a book with a star stamp on the cover for example, and from the appropriate time period, but with no insert I would likely decline to purchase that book, knowing what I know.

 

-J.

I would say that, literally, yes you are correct and I agree with you for the most part. However I have to say for me personally, if I ever came across a book with a star stamp on the cover for example, and from the appropriate time period, but with no insert I would likely decline to purchase that book, knowing what I know.

 

-J.

 

So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps?

No to the first half, and yes to the second.

 

But I personally would still take a pause if I was looking at an early/mid 70's book (in particular) with a star stamp but no insert.

 

-J.

Well yes, 5% or less of certain books were printed with the inserts,

-J.

 

 

Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference.

Well yes, 5% or less of certain books were printed with the inserts,

-J.

 

 

Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference.

I don't think anyone has a definitive source. It's generally believed the MJI's were only in copies distributed through overseas (and possibly stateside) military bases. 5% doesn't seem out of line. So total the number of military base retailers and compare that number to total published copies (returnable or not) and that's where the 5% comes from. 10% seems way too high. Maybe it's 7%? Until Mark Jewelers chimes in I doubt we'll ever have an accurate figure on any numbers.

 

I would say that, literally, yes you are correct and I agree with you for the most part. However I have to say for me personally, if I ever came across a book with a star stamp on the cover for example, and from the appropriate time period, but with no insert I would likely decline to purchase that book, knowing what I know.

 

-J.

 

So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps?

Star stamped books only came from a few overseas AAFES stores, so not every insert book will carry a star stamp.

Well yes, 5% or less of certain books were printed with the inserts,

-J.

 

 

Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference.

I don't think anyone has a definitive source. It's generally believed the MJI's were only in copies distributed through overseas (and possibly stateside) military bases. 5% doesn't seem out of line. So total the number of military base retailers and compare that number to total published copies (returnable or not) and that's where the 5% comes from. 10% seems way too high. Maybe it's 7%? Until Mark Jewelers chimes in I doubt we'll ever have an accurate figure on any numbers.

 

I would say that, literally, yes you are correct and I agree with you for the most part. However I have to say for me personally, if I ever came across a book with a star stamp on the cover for example, and from the appropriate time period, but with no insert I would likely decline to purchase that book, knowing what I know.

 

-J.

 

So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps?

Star stamped books only came from a few overseas AAFES stores, so not every insert book will carry a star stamp.

 

Here is a Mark Jeweler's insert comic without the star stamp:

 

 

I also have comics that were picked up by me from the bookstore in Ramstein Germany in the late 1970s/early 1980s that have a star stamp but do not have the Mark Jewelers insert. But by far, most of the comics do have the insert.

Edited May 19, 2015 by rjrjr

Well yes, 5% or less of certain books were printed with the inserts,

-J.

 

 

Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference.

I don't think anyone has a definitive source. It's generally believed the MJI's were only in copies distributed through overseas (and possibly stateside) military bases. 5% doesn't seem out of line. So total the number of military base retailers and compare that number to total published copies (returnable or not) and that's where the 5% comes from. 10% seems way too high. Maybe it's 7%? Until Mark Jewelers chimes in I doubt we'll ever have an accurate figure on any numbers.

 

I would say that, literally, yes you are correct and I agree with you for the most part. However I have to say for me personally, if I ever came across a book with a star stamp on the cover for example, and from the appropriate time period, but with no insert I would likely decline to purchase that book, knowing what I know.

 

-J.

 

So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps?

Star stamped books only came from a few overseas AAFES stores, so not every insert book will carry a star stamp.

 

You are correct about this.

 

I'll also add that my research has suggested that the inserts only came in "newsstand" editions, so no direct market copies will have them, thus narrowing the percentages further.

 

I feel very comfortable with and stand by the 5% estimate as that seems to be the consensus amongst those who have *really* tracked these things.

 

-J.

 

 

Well yes, 5% or less of certain books were printed with the inserts,

-J.

 

 

Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference.

I don't think anyone has a definitive source. It's generally believed the MJI's were only in copies distributed through overseas (and possibly stateside) military bases. 5% doesn't seem out of line. So total the number of military base retailers and compare that number to total published copies (returnable or not) and that's where the 5% comes from. 10% seems way too high. Maybe it's 7%? Until Mark Jewelers chimes in I doubt we'll ever have an accurate figure on any numbers.

 

I would say that, literally, yes you are correct and I agree with you for the most part. However I have to say for me personally, if I ever came across a book with a star stamp on the cover for example, and from the appropriate time period, but with no insert I would likely decline to purchase that book, knowing what I know.

 

-J.

 

So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps?

Star stamped books only came from a few overseas AAFES stores, so not every insert book will carry a star stamp.

 

Here is a Mark Jeweler's insert comic without the star stamp:

 

 

I also have comics that were picked up by me from the bookstore in Ramstein Germany in the late 1970s/early 1980s that have a star stamp but do not have the Mark Jewelers insert. But by far, most of the comics do have the insert.

 

That's pretty cool. Your comics, bought by you in Germany, in the 70's, brought back stateside by you, and still with you today.

 

Do you have any BA "keys" in the lot by any chance?

 

-J.

 

That's pretty cool. Your comics, bought by you in Germany, in the 70's, brought back stateside by you, and still with you today.

 

Do you have any BA "keys" in the lot by any chance?

 

-J.

 

I'm sure at the rate "keys" are created these days, I do have a few. How many exactly I don't have a handle on. My collection is pretty extensive.

 

If Star Wars #42 and #68 are considered keys, then those are two I know of off the top of my head. In fact, I have Star Wars #26 - 73 with Mark Jeweler inserts if not some earlier issues. (My first stateside Star Wars comic was Star Wars #74 which was a direct edition.) Issue #26 is the first comic I bought off the stands that started my collection. At the time I lived in Germany, I collected Star Wars, Shogun Warriors, Micronauts, Avengers, Thor, Incredible Hulk, Swamp Thing, and probably a dozen more titles I am forgetting. Come to think of it, the Incredible Hulk #271 I have should have a Mark Jeweler insert too. I know of several Gold Key issues I have that were bought from the bookstore as well.

 

Someday, as I make my way back through my collection, I'll be able to get a better grasp on actually what it consists of.

Edited May 20, 2015 by rjrjr

I would say that, literally, yes you are correct and I agree with you for the most part. However I have to say for me personally, if I ever came across a book with a star stamp on the cover for example, and from the appropriate time period, but with no insert I would likely decline to purchase that book, knowing what I know.

 

-J.

 

I entirely agree. But I had an Avengers #6 with a star stamp, and never saw one with an insert…

What are the odds this auction winner is going to be disappointed:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181745172175?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I don't believe I have ever seen a Mark Jewelers insert inside a direct edition before. I would love to learn otherwise.

 

Edited May 22, 2015 by rjrjr

What are the odds this auction winner is going to be disappointed:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181745172175?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I don't believe I have ever seen a Mark Jewelers insert inside a direct copy before. I would love to learn otherwise.

 

Obvious scam.

 

-J.

What are the odds this auction winner is going to be disappointed:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181745172175?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I don't believe I have ever seen a Mark Jewelers insert inside a direct copy before. I would love to learn otherwise.

 

Obvious scam.

 

-J.

 

I own roughly 2,000 books with MJ inserts. Every single one has a newsstand barcode. I have seen thousands more MJ insert books and all have barcodes. It doesn't hurt to live near the largest US military base.

 

Probably a scam, however, lets all remember errors do happen at the printers. Double Covers, missing foil ,books upside down, backwards, same pages inserted throughout the book, wrong covers ... on and on. Its defiantly possible that one got slipped in at the switch over between the direct and newsstand barcode plate change. The only way to tell for sure would to be a magnified examination of the staples.

What are the odds this auction winner is going to be disappointed:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181745172175?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I don't believe I have ever seen a Mark Jewelers insert inside a direct copy before. I would love to learn otherwise.

 

Obvious scam.

 

-J.

 

I own roughly 2,000 books with MJ inserts. Every single one has a newsstand barcode. I have seen thousands more MJ insert books and all have barcodes. It doesn't hurt to live near the largest US military base.

 

Probably a scam, however, lets all remember errors do happen at the printers. Double Covers, missing foil ,books upside down, backwards, same pages inserted throughout the book, wrong covers ... on and on. Its defiantly possible that one got slipped in at the switch over between the direct and newsstand barcode plate change. The only way to tell for sure would to be a magnified examination of the staples.

 

Absolutely, but the auction doesn't even attempt to show the insert. What pictures are there don't really give a good picture of the condition of the comic either.