Show Us Your Atlas Books - Have A Cigar

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While I enjoy a good discussion about investment potential, it's refreshing to have threads like this one where it's more of a tribute nature. I can't help but give a lot of credit to www.atlastales.com ..... a website devoted to the detailed indexing of each and every Atlas comic ever published..... even spilling over into what are basically Timely and early SA Marvels. I can't think of any other effort geared towards a single publisher that achieves the breadth of data that they have. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

The great thing about Atlas is that with a few exceptions, most can be had in reasonable lower to mid grade for under $150, and frequently under $50, especially for genres like romance, crime and western. Low grade reader copies even less. Yeah a lot of horror covers in particular have gotten very pricey in 6.0 and higher, and some even in lower grade, but there is plenty of cool stuff in VG-F that still seems reasonable.

For under $200 at a local show, I picked up 3 PCH Atlas over the weekend - Suspense # 25; Men's Adventures # 24 and Spellbound # 7. Which I squarely blame on the resurgence of this thread over the past couple of weeks

For under $200 at a local show, I picked up 3 PCH Atlas over the weekend - Suspense # 25; Men's Adventures # 24 and Spellbound # 7. Which I squarely blame on the resurgence of this thread over the past couple of weeks

Post 'em or it didn't happen.

While I enjoy a good discussion about investment potential, it's refreshing to have threads like this one where it's more of a tribute nature. I can't help but give a lot of credit to www.atlastales.com ..... a website devoted to the detailed indexing of each and every Atlas comic ever published..... even spilling over into what are basically Timely and early SA Marvels. I can't think of any other effort geared towards a single publisher that achieves the breadth of data that they have. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

The great thing about Atlas is that with a few exceptions, most can be had in reasonable lower to mid grade for under $150, and frequently under $50, especially for genres like romance, crime and western. Low grade reader copies even less. Yeah a lot of horror covers in particular have gotten very pricey in 6.0 and higher, and some even in lower grade, but there is plenty of cool stuff in VG-F that still seems reasonable.

Although the romance books seems to be taking off as of late, at least in 6.0, or so, and up.

two of the favorite Atlas covers in my meager collection, and the Strange Tales doesn't seem to be all that common;

two of the favorite Atlas covers in my meager collection, and the Strange Tales doesn't seem to be all that common;

 

 

 

 

 

.....Everett GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

ST25 = super cover image and 3 great sides = Jackpot!

ST25 = super cover image and 3 great sides = Jackpot!

One of my favorite Everett covers (thus my avatar). This is (per Gerber) one of the toughest pre-code Strange Tales.

This should be interesting after that recent JIM auction on CC (not my book, but I want it):

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2Fauctions%2Fpreview%2Easp%3Fcode%3D2015may%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D3%23Item_1056924&id=1056924

This should be interesting after that recent JIM auction on CC (not my book, but I want it):

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2Fauctions%2Fpreview%2Easp%3Fcode%3D2015may%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D3%23Item_1056924&id=1056924

Think it'll go 6k?

Awesome cover!

ST25 = super cover image and 3 great sides = Jackpot!

 

One of my favorite Everett covers (thus my avatar). This is (per Gerber) one of the toughest pre-code Strange Tales.

 

 

This should be interesting after that recent JIM auction on CC (not my book, but I want it):

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2Fauctions%2Fpreview%2Easp%3Fcode%3D2015may%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D3%23Item_1056924&id=1056924

 

Think it'll go 6k?

Geez based purely on the 7.0 that just sold I would say yes, but who know could shock us all in either direction i'll admit that last auction has my head spinning.

This should be interesting after that recent JIM auction on CC (not my book, but I want it):

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2Fauctions%2Fpreview%2Easp%3Fcode%3D2015may%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D3%23Item_1056924&id=1056924

 

Think it'll go 6k?

 

Geez based purely on the 7.0 that just sold I would say yes, but who know could shock us all in either direction i'll admit that last auction has my head spinning.

Does anyone have a handle on print run volumes for PCH?

We're just not seeing nice copies drawn into submission by the feeding frenzy are we?

Someone out there doesn't care what they pay, and they have camp followers.

20 years ago I tried to collect all the Atlas in mid-grade condition and managed to get about one third of the way through before I gave up. I couldn't figure out why they were so hard to find, let alone in nice shape.

 

 

20 years ago I tried to collect all the Atlas in mid-grade condition and managed to get about one third of the way through before I gave up. I couldn't figure out why they were so hard to find, let alone in nice shape.

 

I think that it simply has to do with the nature of the books; Atlas's were meant to be read by the masses, and that they were. OTOH, EC's from the same period are much easier to find in higher grades.

I too prolly have maybe a third of their PCH output, but mine are in lesser condition, as I bought them for reading.

 

 

20 years ago I tried to collect all the Atlas in mid-grade condition and managed to get about one third of the way through before I gave up. I couldn't figure out why they were so hard to find, let alone in nice shape.

 

I think that it simply has to do with the nature of the books; Atlas's were meant to be read by the masses, and that they were. OTOH, EC's from the same period are much easier to find in higher grades.

I too prolly have maybe a third of their PCH output, but mine are in lesser condition, as I bought them for reading.

I take it you mean that Atlas's weren't coveted by the masses as ECs were back in the day. Too bad Stan Lee didn't have Bill Gaines mentality to save file copies wrapped in newspaper in his closet. Could you imagine hearing about of the release of the "Lee File Copies", 10-20 pristine copies of each Atlas Precode book being released to the public?

This should be interesting after that recent JIM auction on CC (not my book, but I want it):

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2Fauctions%2Fpreview%2Easp%3Fcode%3D2015may%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D3%23Item_1056924&id=1056924

 

Think it'll go 6k?

 

Geez based purely on the 7.0 that just sold I would say yes, but who know could shock us all in either direction i'll admit that last auction has my head spinning.

 

 

Does anyone have a handle on print run volumes for PCH?

 

We're just not seeing nice copies drawn into submission by the feeding frenzy are we?

 

Someone out there doesn't care what they pay, and they have camp followers.

 

20 years ago I tried to collect all the Atlas in mid-grade condition and managed to get about one third of the way through before I gave up. I couldn't figure out why they were so hard to find, let alone in nice shape.

 

There was a large discussion on scarcity/print run a few hundred pages back. We didn't nail down the print run size(s) but long time collectors/historians were of the opinion the runs were relatively small. One of the larger issues has always been the poor quality of the paper which I have always heard contributed more than anything to the lack of high grade books.

I think these auctions will result in sales by people who might gave a HG book here or there and figure they might as well strike while the iron is hot, but I guarantee it won't be a lot because they don't exist.

The pre-code books are true rarities in VF or better IMHO.

Atlas at the time probably had some, but not quite the fan base that EC had started to accumulate. Looking back at the very first Overstreets, ECs were more highly prized and with higher prices, there was more incentive to preserve and seek out nice copies to offer for sale. Not so with probably the majority of the various Atlas titles.

Add to that, the groundswell of fearful public opinion against all precode publishers in the mid-50s, and many Atlas copies along with all the other precode output found their way to the bonfires.

What's left is what happened to be socked away (either in highgrade, mid or lowgrade readers) here and there by collectors and packrats, with a smattering of mindblowing books in some of the pedigree collections -- but nothing as far as solid runs of various titles, very piecemeal.

Summing up, as Johnny545 notes -- Atlas precodes in VF or better are generally speaking, rare beasts!

While this all makes sense, I'd love to know what the actual print runs were, as we must otherwise infer. I guess it is lost to history.

Here's some Sunday morning musings I've sent the Timely / Atlas list. I figured I'd share here hoping for feedback:

 

"Thanks for that link.

 

Re: Will testimony from the business manager before the UnitedStates Sentate suffice? Froehlich Senate Testimony

 

The tax consideration has to be important in the picture. As similar situation changed the way the Studio System evolved in Hollywood. When the Revenue Act of 1941 came into effect, the top bracket came down to $200,000 and the marginal tax rate was 90%. For the highest paid stars, that was a significant bite out of their earnings. As a result, top talents started to “pursue profit-sharing and one-picture deals whereby their salaries could be invested into a picture and taxed at capital gains at a rate of only 25 percent” (as per Thomas Schatz in The Genius of the System, p. 299).

 

Consequently, it’s easy to assume that having one company own all other companies in the Goodman system allowed profits from each of the outfit to be passed relatively unscathed by a tax bite into the main entity.

 

If one wants to estimate how much money is involved, Froehlich provides some good information.

 

We know that in the ‘50’s the profits from a comic book were split as follows: Publishers charges the Distributors 5.5¢ who charges the wholesale 6.5¢ who charges the retailer 7.5¢.

 

The unknown number here is the publisher cost. Looking at the Bible Tales exposition of Froehlich, we can infer that the printing cost might be 3.5¢ per comic.

 

With that in mind, a sole publisher’s profit margin is 2¢ / 3.5¢ or about 57% and a publisher-distributor like the Marvel Comics Group is 3¢ / 3.5¢ or about 86% (hence the importance of having your own distribution arm).

 

Now take Froehlich’s print run and sell through numbers: 350,000 print run and average sell through of 62%. Assume no advertising revenue for simplicity and a cost of production of the book itself at $1,080, i.e. 36 pages of content at a total cost of $30 a piece (to pay all talent: editor, penciler, inker, writer, … I might be off on that). For the average comic book selling 62%, revenue is $14,105 (350,000 * 0.62 * 0.065) and costs are $1,080 for content and $12,250 for printing cost, leaving you with a net of $775 per average title.

 

Atlas distributed about 60 titles, so on any given month, that’s about 50 books (counting quarterlies and bi-monthlies) or $38,750 and on an annual basis $465,000. The tax structure now plays an important part in trying to shelter as much of that profit as possible.

 

If a title is popular and, let’s say, warrants a 500,000 print run and still sells through 62%, the profit off that one book is $1,570 per month or $795 more than the average title. Publishers could easily afford to pay that talent more than other talent!

for you Michael. I wrote the above 5 years ago now!!

Also, here's a closer look at Froehlich's testimony that relates more to your question about print runs -

"Mr. FROEHLICH. I think if a crime book is one which will depict a conventional crime story, the story of John Dillinger, then a the mass media are guilty of the same thing we are guilty of.

We published a comic magazine called Bible Tales. The sixth issue is out now. We were very anxious to move into this field if we could. There are no competitive books of this type on the market. We feel that it is a fine worthwhile type of publication and there may be a real market in the United States and Canada. Our editor went up to Yale Divinity School for guidance as to the sort of subject material that should go into this book. Each issue is a combination of better stories, better incidents, from the Old Testament and the New Testament.

We normally print 350,000 copies of a conventional magazine in the western field or in the teen-age field. We started with only 265,000 copies for the first issue. If there is a real market for this sort of thing we felt that because the print order, was one-third less than we would normally print, that the sales percentage would be abnormally high. We went right ahead with the second and the third issues. The artwork is far superior. It is the finest artwork we could buy. The editorial is most carefully handled. The book cost us better than 40 percent more than the conventional comic, not including the income from advertising, which of course was lost in this thing. Unfortunately our final print order on the last issue is down, to 230,000 copies. The book came in with a 34 percent sale, meaning we had sold only about 80,000 copies, and on that issue we lost over $6,000. To date we have lost over $29,000."

Which, btw, trying to find nice copies of Bible Tales is a pain and now we can see that indeed it wasn't a fast seller.

Thanks Michaël! Fascinating stuff. We know - I think we know - that Captain Marvel print runs were over 1 million copies per issue. Would this suggest that by the fifties print runs had fallen by two thirds? If one then factors in low quality paper, black covers, and book burning, it all stacks up.

I don't know where the number came from by I had heard print runs were 125-250k for any given issue, with much fewer actually sold.

This seems consistent with the above quote.

Again, I can't remember who said it or where the info came from, but I assume it is somewhere in this thread - hope I am remembering correctly.