Valiant first appearances (quick version for beginners) Now with pictures!

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I remember reading somewhere the importance of Harby #1 was like Avengers #1.

I believe Jim Shooter said that in the editorial section of... Harbinger #1.

I remember reading somewhere the importance of Harby #1 was like Avengers #1.

I believe Jim Shooter said that in the editorial section of... Harbinger #1.

I would say more like Uncanny X-Men #1 with it being new characters that deal with how their powers effect the world and themselves, teenagers, death, life, and a new way of approaching a superhero team that no other comic publisher was doing at the time.

I remember reading somewhere the importance of Harby #1 was like Avengers #1.

I believe Jim Shooter said that in the editorial section of... Harbinger #1.

Yes, I knew that, as I'm sure many of this thread's readers would know as well.

It felt awesome when I was finally able to get my hands on a copy (I missed it when it first came out) and I read that intro by Shooter.

I remember reading somewhere the importance of Harby #1 was like Avengers #1.

I believe Jim Shooter said that in the editorial section of... Harbinger #1.

 

I would say more like Uncanny X-Men #1 with it being new characters that deal with how their powers effect the world and themselves, teenagers, death, life, and a new way of approaching a superhero team that no other comic publisher was doing at the time.

Similar... (but that title wasn't "Uncanny")...

this article from Sequart lists Harbinger #1 as the top comic of the 1990s, mentioning the difference from X-Men.

http://sequart.org/magazine/2430/the-ten-most-important-comic-books-of-the-1990s/

X-Men #1 is on the list at #4.

I was referring to the 1963 #1 actually.

I was referring to the 1963 #1 actually.

True... I would guess that Jim Shooter purposefully didn't want direct comparisons to X-Men

(even though he probably would have agreed that X-Men #1 (1963) was a better match to Harbinger #1).

I have sold more Valiant books in the last week than in the last three years.

And when the furor dies down, I will buy them all back...again.

I was sad to find out, though, that I only have 9 copies of Ninjak #1 gold. I started with 100. I gave a good chunk away.

Still owe a couple to a couple. Haven't forgotten!

Wow -- that top 10 books of the 90s list is bunk.

And I'm a huge Valiant fan, but thought Harbinger was the least innovative Valiant title -- it was a grittier take on the X-Men, but nothing Byrne hadn't done earlier in Next Men. X-O, Archer & Armstrong, Shadowman & even HARD Corps were more original.

Arguably more important are:

Spider-Man 1 (1st major artist-given-free-reign, variant bonanza & multi-million print of the modern era)

and even:

Youngblood 1 (1st Image book -- don't hate, but it started the hype of a far more influential company than Valiant. It also was also the highest print-run *independent* book to that point (to be quickly supplanted by Spawn 1 and WildCATS 1, respectively).

Liefeld may suck and Youngblood might suck worse, but it was the first Image book & deserves respect for starting a company that's lasted nearly 25 years so far & given us Spawn, Walking Dead and more.

Sandman 19 (deserved the awards it won)

Maus (ditto)

It's hard to make a Top 10 Valiant key list without including the cost consideration.

 

For example, Magnus #5 has always been a small fraction of the value of Harbinger #1.

 

Magnus #5 has the first Rai, which is the first original Valiant character... it's a flipbook with Rai #1 (mini-series) on the back.

 

Harbinger #1 is the first original Valiant title, but one of the "big two" characters is Toyo Harada, who appeared earlier in Solar #3.

 

So... is the first appearance of the five Harbinger renegade teenagers in their own first title more "key" than the first original Valiant character Rai, or more "key" than an earlier first appearance for Toyo Harada?

 

Historically, the answer has always been "Yes"... Harbinger #1 has been the "biggest key" among the regular issues... when we look at the price.

 

It hasn't even been close price-wise... Harbinger #1 has towered above Magnus #5 and Solar #3.

 

Print run is definitely part of the discussion, being a first issue is part of the discussion, having an iconic cover featuring the five characters with first appearances is part of the discussion.

 

So, yes, Harbinger #1 has lots of reasons to be more "key" than Magnus #5 and Solar #3...

but there are reasons that they should be more "key" than Harbinger #1.

 

It's almost a circular argument.

 

At any rate --- if we're talking about "key issues" without looking at the price (if that's possible), then we need to talk about the "key characters".

 

X-O Manowar

Harbinger (Harada and the renegade teens)

Bloodshot

Archer & Armstrong

 

... were the first four titles that Valiant relaunched in 2012.

 

Shadowman

Quantum & Woody

Eternal Warrior

HARDCorps (joined Bloodshot)

Unity

Rai

 

... were the next six titles in the Valiant relaunch.

 

So... if we just take those 10 titles and look for the key issues in the (original) Valiant line, we get:

 

X-O Manowar - X-O Manowar #1 (1992)

Harbinger (Harada and the renegade teens) - Solar #3 and Harbinger #1 (1991 and 1992)

Bloodshot - Eternal Warrior #4 and Rai #0 (followed by Eternal Warrior #5) (1992)

Archer & Armstrong - Archer & Armstrong #0 (and #0 Gold) (1992)

Shadowman - X-O Manowar #4 and Shadowman #1 (1992)

Quantum & Woody - Quantum & Woody #1 (1997)

Eternal Warrior (and Geomancers) - Solar #10 (1992) for both

HARDCorps (joined Bloodshot) - Harbinger #10 (1992)

Unity - a team book - maybe the new Livewire (Harbinger #3 - 2012) is key

Rai - Magnus #5 (1991)

 

These are in the order of the 2012 relaunch titles, but having Magnus #5 at the bottom probably means these aren't in a true "Top 10" order.

 

But I'm tired of typing and not really getting anywhere new, so I'll stop.

Love it....Thank you!

I remember reading somewhere the importance of Harby #1 was like Avengers #1.

I believe Jim Shooter said that in the editorial section of... Harbinger #1.

 

I would say more like Uncanny X-Men #1 with it being new characters that deal with how their powers effect the world and themselves, teenagers, death, life, and a new way of approaching a superhero team that no other comic publisher was doing at the time.

Similar... (but that title wasn't "Uncanny")...

this article from Sequart lists Harbinger #1 as the top comic of the 1990s, mentioning the difference from X-Men.

http://sequart.org/magazine/2430/the-ten-most-important-comic-books-of-the-1990s/

 

X-Men #1 is on the list at #4.

I dissected that article once upon a time, and even wrote an article in rebuttal that I think someone stole whole cloth and claimed was their own.

It's on the 'net somewhere.

Wow -- that top 10 books of the 90s list is bunk.

 

And I'm a huge Valiant fan, but thought Harbinger was the least innovative Valiant title -- it was a grittier take on the X-Men, but nothing Byrne hadn't done earlier in Next Men. X-O, Archer & Armstrong, Shadowman & even HARD Corps were more original.

 

Arguably more important are:

 

Spider-Man 1 (1st major artist-given-free-reign,

Except not.

Kirby was given free reign on his 4th World, and Byrne did it with Alpha Flight.

And Kirby in 1970, and Byrne in 1983 were just as big as McFarlane in 1990.

Kirby may have not had the numbers, but Byrne certainly did. Byrne's popularity dwarfed McFarlane's, even at the height of McFarlane's fame.

Byrne was the very first superstar artist.

variant bonanza & multi-million print of the modern era)

Not to pick nits, but there were really only two covers to Spiderman #1. The Platinum wasn't intended for (and couldn't be purchased directly by) fans, it was a thank you for the retailers, and came after the fact. And the gold is also an after-the-fact printing.

Sure, ok, there were the bagged versions...but the variations between those are minor. You have silver..and "green"...and that's about it.

I don't agree that Harbinger #1 was the top comic of the 1990s, and I didn't write the Sequart article,

but it's definitely hard to discuss comic books in the 1990s and leave out Valiant.

It's definitely hard to discuss Valiant in the 1990s and leave out Harbinger #1.

So I get the basics of the argument even if I wouldn't rank Harbinger #1 as the #1 comic of the 1990s.

Superman #75 (in all its various forms) was easily the top 1990s comic for me.

Valiant was new... I didn't have Valiant underoos when I was 2. I had Superman.

I didn't watch Christopher Reeve kneel before Harada. That was Zod.

I didn't have Harbinger wallpaper when I was 8. I had Justice League.

Doomsday may have been a disposable antagonist, but he killed Superman for long enough for the world to notice.

That was the 1990s that connected to the 1970s and the 1980s for me... which was my whole life.

Valiant wasn't my whole life in 1993. It was about a year.

Now, Valiant has been about 23 years of my life... so for me, Valiant is now more than what Superman was then.

It's "my" generation's comic book universe. No generation before mine can say that... and that's what makes it special vs. Marvel or DC... for me.

Speaking of Zod, I saw Sarah Douglas, the woman who played Ursa in the Superman movies yesterday. She looks great.

Margot Kidder, on the other hand, looks terrible.

Speaking of Zod, I saw Sarah Douglas, the woman who played Ursa in the Superman movies yesterday. She looks great.

 

Margot Kidder, on the other hand, looks terrible.

Yesterday? That's awesome.

I saw Margot Kidder once... not yesterday... and you're correct.

Then again, I didn't understand why anyone would have been impressed by Margot Kidder... ever.

Even looking at old images from Google... she just looks like a less-pleasant-to-be-around Courtney Cox.

(insert requisite favorable comments about 1970s Valerie Perrine here) (thumbs u

X-O 4 is quietly becoming one of the top 5 valiant keys to get right now. Anyone want to do a top 10 ranking of valiant keys to have in cgc 9.8?

 

I wont' dare start as I am sure someone would throw out my EW5 from the list

Just go buy all three so you collect them as a combined 1st appearance set. I did + one.

CGC even kept them consistent.

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variant bonanza & multi-million print of the modern era)

 

 

Not to pick nits, but there were really only two covers to Spiderman #1. The Platinum wasn't intended for (and couldn't be purchased directly by) fans, it was a thank you for the retailers, and came after the fact. And the gold is also an after-the-fact printing.

 

Sure, ok, there were the bagged versions...but the variations between those are minor. You have silver..and "green"...and that's about it.

I'd love to see your article rebuttal.

I count Spidey 1 as important for both the 4 covers (bagged vs. unbagged--or at least the Silver bagged) & the Platinum retailer incentive. Sure, DC did it with the Man of Steel raffle edition, but Platinum Spider-Man started a trend.

LOTDK 1 was the first modern to break 1 million copies & had 4 covers, but Spider-man 1 really kick-started not only the variant cover phase but also the retailer incentive deal with the Platinum.

The variant cover madness went far beyond LOTDK and probably peaked with Gen13 1. How many of those were there ultimately? 15?

Don't disagree with you re. Byrne or Kirby in terms of popularity -- but neither came close to selling 1 million copies, let alone 3 million.

Speaking of Zod, I saw Sarah Douglas, the woman who played Ursa in the Superman movies yesterday. She looks great.

 

Margot Kidder, on the other hand, looks terrible.

Yesterday? That's awesome.

 

I saw Margot Kidder once... not yesterday... and you're correct.

 

Then again, I didn't understand why anyone would have been impressed by Margot Kidder... ever.

 

Even looking at old images from Google... she just looks like a less-pleasant-to-be-around Courtney Cox.

 

(insert requisite favorable comments about 1970s Valerie Perrine here) (thumbs u

I saw Valerie Perrine, too.

They were all at Monsterpalooza.

I remember reading somewhere the importance of Harby #1 was like Avengers #1.

I believe Jim Shooter said that in the editorial section of... Harbinger #1.

 

I would say more like Uncanny X-Men #1 with it being new characters that deal with how their powers effect the world and themselves, teenagers, death, life, and a new way of approaching a superhero team that no other comic publisher was doing at the time.

 

I would liken it to FF#1 - started out nicely and waned as time went on.

X-O 4 is quietly becoming one of the top 5 valiant keys to get right now. Anyone want to do a top 10 ranking of valiant keys to have in cgc 9.8?

 

I wont' dare start as I am sure someone would throw out my EW5 from the list

 

Just go buy all three so you collect them as a combined 1st appearance set. I did + one.

 

 

CGC even kept them consistent.

 

This is something we can all agree on.