Valiant first appearances (quick version for beginners) Now with pictures!

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Sorry to get all serious up in here but does CGC make a note on the label as to whether or not a copy of Harbinger #1 has the coupon?

I just found a couple of 9.8 candidates out in the wild and one has the coupon and one doesn't.

Sorry to get all serious up in here but does CGC make a note on the label as to whether or not a copy of Harbinger #1 has the coupon?

 

I just found a couple of 9.8 candidates out in the wild and one has the coupon and one doesn't.

The ones I have happened across ended up in a Qualified Label slab with a note that the coupon was missing.

HUGE picture.

Early issues of Rai or Early issues of Harbinger. Which would you shoot for?

While Rai's my favorite Valiant character, I'd go for Harbinger. It was the most-expensive pre-Unity title back in the day because it was the 1st original Valiant title and a tad harder to find because of the coupon promotion.

Rai books are great but suffer from a lack of 1st appearances. Also, the traditionally expensive books (Rai 3-4) were so only because of "low print runs" & relative rarity, but their 38k print runs would put them in the top 50 monthly titles today.

And Rai 0, the break-out movie rumor key of the run so far, had a print run of well over 100K and was hoarded as a key from day 1. It's the opposite of rare, particularly by today's standards.

For comparison, the # 1 Valiant book on the stands last month (Divinity # 1) sold barely over 12,000 copies, clocking at # 172 on Diamond's list. Last month's issue of Rai couldn't even hit 7,500.

Could this be #2 sought after book currently?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Valiant-Comic-X-O-Manowar-4-VF-NM-1st-App-Jack-Boniface-of-Shadowman-Acclaim-/251885687340?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa58e922c

Could this be #2 sought after book currently?

 

 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Valiant-Comic-X-O-Manowar-4-VF-NM-1st-App-Jack-Boniface-of-Shadowman-Acclaim-/251885687340?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa58e922c

It has been on the 'hot list' for quite a while. Just not to a larger collecting/speculating audience.

Shadowman: Shadowman #1, (Secret Identity shown playing Sax in a bar in X-O Manowar #4, not sure how that holds up)

 

 

Shadowman: Shadowman #1, (Secret Identity shown playing Sax in a bar in X-O Manowar #4, not sure how that holds up)

 

It holds up very well, and has for many years. X-O Manowar #4 is one of those books Valiant fans covet as a key. Especially with that cool cover, and containing one of the earliest crossovers of the Harbinger kids.

 

While Rai's my favorite Valiant character, I'd go for Harbinger. It was the most-expensive pre-Unity title back in the day because it was the 1st original Valiant title and a tad harder to find because of the coupon promotion.

 

Rai books are great but suffer from a lack of 1st appearances. Also, the traditionally expensive books (Rai 3-4) were so only because of "low print runs" & relative rarity, but their 38k print runs would put them in the top 50 monthly titles today.

 

And Rai 0, the break-out movie rumor key of the run so far, had a print run of well over 100K and was hoarded as a key from day 1. It's the opposite of rare, particularly by today's standards.

 

For comparison, the # 1 Valiant book on the stands last month (Divinity # 1) sold barely over 12,000 copies, clocking at # 172 on Diamond's list. Last month's issue of Rai couldn't even hit 7,500.

I am looking into new Valiant as well for a good read really digging new Rai. I like taking an older idea and giving it to new creative teams and slightly tweaking/reimaging to make writing a key point. Hence my addiction to current day Transformers books by IDW. All this hype is clearly working.

Well I did take your advice, but went for a mix:

Harbinger #2 and #4 with coupons, and Rai #3 and #4. also nabbed a Shadowman #1 and #2 The list gets smaller and still gets longer.

would like some raws of: X-O 1 & 4, Rai 1 & 2, Solar 10 1st print

And while I was distracted with he awesome Rai book chasing, and a cart item or 4 going not available before I could check out, X-O #4 became the hot book of the originals on eBay. Now I regret passing on some of the cheaper ones.

Still in disbelief that I was able to score some of the books that were impossible to score as a kid. I blame Wizard!

X-O 4 is quietly becoming one of the top 5 valiant keys to get right now. Anyone want to do a top 10 ranking of valiant keys to have in cgc 9.8?

I wont' dare start as I am sure someone would throw out my EW5 from the list

X-O 4 is quietly becoming one of the top 5 valiant keys to get right now. Anyone want to do a top 10 ranking of valiant keys to have in cgc 9.8?

 

I wont' dare start as I am sure someone would throw out my EW5 from the list

Haven't checked prices this week but I'd wager it'd be:

1) Harbinger 1

2) Solar 3

3) Solar 10

4) X-O 1

5) Eternal Warrior 4

**I know that the print run on EW 4 is higher than the rest, but if I were selling at a convention, I think I'd make more money selling 10 copies of EW 4 than 3 copies of Solar 10.

Haven't checked prices this week but I'd wager it'd be:

 

1) Harbinger 1

2) Solar 3

3) Solar 10

4) X-O 1

5) Eternal Warrior 4

 

**I know that the print run on EW 4 is higher than the rest, but if I were selling at a convention, I think I'd make more money selling 10 copies of EW 4 than 3 copies of Solar 10.

Nice Start. Up for debate for sure.

Harbinger 1 and X-O 1 I agree should be up there. Solar 3 towards the later end maybe. X-O 3, Rai 0, Shadowman 1, Archer & Armstrong 0, Magnus #5, etc. need to be thought about.

It's hard to make a Top 10 Valiant key list without including the cost consideration.

For example, Magnus #5 has always been a small fraction of the value of Harbinger #1.

Magnus #5 has the first Rai, which is the first original Valiant character... it's a flipbook with Rai #1 (mini-series) on the back.

Harbinger #1 is the first original Valiant title, but one of the "big two" characters is Toyo Harada, who appeared earlier in Solar #3.

So... is the first appearance of the five Harbinger renegade teenagers in their own first title more "key" than the first original Valiant character Rai, or more "key" than an earlier first appearance for Toyo Harada?

Historically, the answer has always been "Yes"... Harbinger #1 has been the "biggest key" among the regular issues... when we look at the price.

It hasn't even been close price-wise... Harbinger #1 has towered above Magnus #5 and Solar #3.

Print run is definitely part of the discussion, being a first issue is part of the discussion, having an iconic cover featuring the five characters with first appearances is part of the discussion.

So, yes, Harbinger #1 has lots of reasons to be more "key" than Magnus #5 and Solar #3...

but there are reasons that they should be more "key" than Harbinger #1.

It's almost a circular argument.

At any rate --- if we're talking about "key issues" without looking at the price (if that's possible), then we need to talk about the "key characters".

X-O Manowar

Harbinger (Harada and the renegade teens)

Bloodshot

Archer & Armstrong

... were the first four titles that Valiant relaunched in 2012.

Shadowman

Quantum & Woody

Eternal Warrior

HARDCorps (joined Bloodshot)

Unity

Rai

... were the next six titles in the Valiant relaunch.

So... if we just take those 10 titles and look for the key issues in the (original) Valiant line, we get:

X-O Manowar - X-O Manowar #1 (1992)

Harbinger (Harada and the renegade teens) - Solar #3 and Harbinger #1 (1991 and 1992)

Bloodshot - Eternal Warrior #4 and Rai #0 (followed by Eternal Warrior #5) (1992)

Archer & Armstrong - Archer & Armstrong #0 (and #0 Gold) (1992)

Shadowman - X-O Manowar #4 and Shadowman #1 (1992)

Quantum & Woody - Quantum & Woody #1 (1997)

Eternal Warrior (and Geomancers) - Solar #10 (1992) for both

HARDCorps (joined Bloodshot) - Harbinger #10 (1992)

Unity - a team book - maybe the new Livewire (Harbinger #3 - 2012) is key

Rai - Magnus #5 (1991)

These are in the order of the 2012 relaunch titles, but having Magnus #5 at the bottom probably means these aren't in a true "Top 10" order.

But I'm tired of typing and not really getting anywhere new, so I'll stop.

So I went and did a thing:

Harbinger #1

X-O Manowar #1

X-O Manowar #4

Magnus #5

Eternal Warrior #4

Archer & Armstrong #0

Rai #0

Solar

Shadowman #1

Shadowman #8

I am sure print numbers and availablity have something to do with it, but this would be my best guess at what books are being focused the most. There are likely more places getting these keys ready for sale and some of you sitting on 50+ copies.

Harbinger is still the wild card. So many names in that book over it's run, if any were to be introduced into a movie/show, it would cause the run on that book to continue going back up. I hope RAW #1 start to hit 4 figures!

In 1992, I was looking for a harbinger #1 and was finding no coupon books going for $200.00 back then. With coupon was over $500!!!!!! IN 92!!!!!! Imagine what this market does to that book raw and slabbed alike.

Add Solar 3 to the list above; it's a lot harder to find than Shadowman 8.

And I still maintain that X-O 4's not even in the league of the other's listed. Yes -- it was a 1-page cameo but primarily a Wizard-hyped book. I'd take Shadowman 1 over it any day. And I did -- last December I had 3 copies of X-O # 4 to 26 copies of Shadowman 1.

And X-O's my favorite Valiant character.

Oh. I agree with you on the X-O #4, but like Eternal Warrior #4 vs Rai 0 vs EW #5, the market has chosen 4 as the key.

Solar 3 sales were low because they are so few available.

I would swap the A&A #0 with the A&A #0 Gold.

Why? Your % return's likely higher on the normal one.

As in, A+A 0 could go from $3-$4 to $30 or $40.

While the A+A 0 gold could go from $30-$35 to $200.

Again, I'd rather have a longbox of the regular version than 10-20 of the gold.

Why? Your % return's likely higher on the normal one.

 

As in, A+A 0 could go from $3-$4 to $30 or $40.

 

While the A+A 0 gold could go from $30-$35 to $200.

 

Again, I'd rather have a longbox of the regular version than 10-20 of the gold.

True. I was just thinking in terms of which is more collectable. The gold is still the first appearance and is much rarer.

I like them both. (thumbs u

I remember reading somewhere the importance of Harby #1 was like Avengers #1.