Comic book collecting with a foreign variant focus

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Maybe "micro print run" was overstating it. I only meant in comparison with how many american copies are published. Do you have any kind of estimate of the print run on these early 70's Italian editions?

I am not familiar with Corno print runs, but if you take the average print runs for popular comics in Italy in the 1970s, most were huge. Our leading Disney title, Topolino, reached one million copies (for Italy alone), so I guess the Corno books, which were very popular, had pretty high print runs in proportion.

Tadaaaaaaammmmmm ITALY's Wolverine 1st appearance from Incredible Hulk 181

Wolverine 1st appearance was printed on:

UOMO RAGNO 193 - Editoriale Corno - Printed in Italy on 22/09/1977

The book typically contains two issues and a half :

Amazing Spider Man n.152 (01/76) "Shocker colpisce ancora"

(wein / andru / esposito - giacoia)

Incredible hulk n.181 (11/74) "Ed ecco... Wolverine!"

Daredevil n.127 (11/75) "Hai ucciso, Torpedo... e ora pagherai" (part 2 of 2)

Print runs varied a lot along the years....

Issues from the early 70s probably had a 50.000 print run...

In mid 70s many books like Uomo Ragno and Fantastici Quattro reached a 100.000-200.000 print run.

Sales quickly dropped 'till 1982/1984 (5.000-10.000 copies) when Editoriale Corno went into bankrupcy.

Many late books are even rarer because most of the warehouse copies were "re-Covered" by distributors or collected into 3-book paperbacks thus leaving in place very few original intact copies!

Ciao

Federico

Maybe "micro print run" was overstating it. I only meant in comparison with how many american copies are published. Do you have any kind of estimate of the print run on these early 70's Italian editions?

Hi!

A mint copy with a mint poster (VF according to US standards) range btw 800-1000€.

It's a HARD task to find it in high grade....

Lower grade copies with the poster can be found at 500-600€ .

The poster alone can be found anywhere between 300-600€.

BUT you must be VERY careful when purchasing Editoriale Corno Books.

Early books and their posters may have a reddish or bluish paint on the top and bottom edge meaning they come from distributors'returns (resa). These sell for significatively less than the untouched books and posters.

Also beware to trimmed books(typical trick to remove the paint)...

I can help you in case you want to find a Uomo Ragno 1!

Ciao

Federico

I have some casual interest in a comic book. I am looking for a copy of Amazing Spider-man 1 (Italian Series) with the poster. (I do not know what the poster actually looks like.) I know the cover looks like this and it was published in 1970. Are these readily available meaning do they turn up from time to time? I have not seen a complete one on eBay with the poster in awhile.

 

l'uomo ragno 1

 

Since you are so interested in Corno books...

These are the scans of the lowest graded first issues I owned...that a couple of years ago I decided to submit to CGC to test their grading standards on italian books and see if they could spot the trimming and restoration....

And yes they do spot anything eheheh

But NO ...they don't know anything about posters and stickers so no green labels!

P.S. I own ALL MARVEL Corno books with ALL gadgets (posters stickers etc etc) in 9.4/9.8 and it has been a 30-year-challenge to get them all.

I.E. I had to buy multiple complete series of UOMO RAGNO (at least 6/7) to build a Mint collection according to US standards.

Ciao

FEDERICO

Hi!

A mint copy with a mint poster (VF according to US standards) range btw 800-1000€.

It's a HARD task to find it in high grade....

 

Lower grade copies with the poster can be found at 500-600€ .

 

The poster alone can be found anywhere between 300-600€.

 

BUT you must be VERY careful when purchasing Editoriale Corno Books.

Early books and their posters may have a reddish or bluish paint on the top and bottom edge meaning they come from distributors'returns (resa). These sell for significatively less than the untouched books and posters.

Also beware to trimmed books(typical trick to remove the paint)...

 

I can help you in case you want to find a Uomo Ragno 1!

 

Ciao

Federico

 

I have some casual interest in a comic book. I am looking for a copy of Amazing Spider-man 1 (Italian Series) with the poster. (I do not know what the poster actually looks like.) I know the cover looks like this and it was published in 1970. Are these readily available meaning do they turn up from time to time? I have not seen a complete one on eBay with the poster in awhile.

 

l'uomo ragno 1

 

That is VERY good to know and I thank you. I noticed that you have a 7.0 trimmed. I was wondering if that was due to a return book like you mentioned. Also I notice that your CGC copy does not indicate anything about a poster. Is that because your copy has one or is that because CGC does not consider the poster as part of the comic?

Hi!

Yes the amateur techniques used to "clean" a returned book are:

1. Trimming (this is the case with the book I sent to CGC)

2. Cleaning with solvents

In my long experience...both techniques are uneffective due to the aggressive red/blue paint that never goes away completely and because in most cases the paint stained the internal pages and gadgets too.

What are "returned" books you may ask?

Comics in Italy were distributed ONLY through newsagents 'till the early 90s. The unsold books normally went back to distributorrs or publishers who would then paint the edges and throw them into special discounted packages called "busta".

Most of us were super happy about this because we could buy comics at half the cover price.

The italian terms for the painted-edge books are "busta" or "resa" comics.

Most of these "busta" books were distributed in touristic cities in summer!

CGC doesn't even know about posters or stickers so they considered my books "complete".

Actually if you carefully check the words on the covers you fill find the word "MANIFESTO" which means large poster not stapled to the book.

a "POSTER instead is normally a 2-page sized poster stapled to the center of the book...

Thor1 had stickers + manifesto

Devil1 had a manifesto

Uomo Ragno1 had a manifesto

Fantastici Quattro 1 had stickers + manifesto

In the next few days I could post some MINT examples from my collection if you are interested!

Federico

Hi!

A mint copy with a mint poster (VF according to US standards) range btw 800-1000€.

It's a HARD task to find it in high grade....

 

Lower grade copies with the poster can be found at 500-600€ .

 

The poster alone can be found anywhere between 300-600€.

 

BUT you must be VERY careful when purchasing Editoriale Corno Books.

Early books and their posters may have a reddish or bluish paint on the top and bottom edge meaning they come from distributors'returns (resa). These sell for significatively less than the untouched books and posters.

Also beware to trimmed books(typical trick to remove the paint)...

 

I can help you in case you want to find a Uomo Ragno 1!

 

Ciao

Federico

 

I have some casual interest in a comic book. I am looking for a copy of Amazing Spider-man 1 (Italian Series) with the poster. (I do not know what the poster actually looks like.) I know the cover looks like this and it was published in 1970. Are these readily available meaning do they turn up from time to time? I have not seen a complete one on eBay with the poster in awhile.

 

l'uomo ragno 1

 

 

That is VERY good to know and I thank you. I noticed that you have a 7.0 trimmed. I was wondering if that was due to a return book like you mentioned. Also I notice that your CGC copy does not indicate anything about a poster. Is that because your copy has one or is that because CGC does not consider the poster as part of the comic?

As Federico said, the ink above and below the book are not, like with US editions, "distributor’s spray", but rather they indicate the book was returned from the newsstands.

I usually do not care about it, but here it affects the value as most people do not like the ink.

Strictly speaking "manifesto" translates as poster, they are equivalent words in Italian, but as Federico said, the early posters were larger in size (4x the size of a book) while the late 1970s one were just 2x the size of the book. Always stapled, unlike the first ones which were just inserted in the books.

CGC is torturously bad at detecting extras with foreign books. In fact I have often seen books labeled with the wrong country or language. They have no foreign experts on staff nor do they seem to care about it. Foreign books come in so infrequently I don't see this as being anything that will change in the future.

An Italian book without stickers or poster should be labeled incomplete similar to a Spidey 238 without tatooz. If you want accurate graded foreign notes you will have to go somewhere else....

BTW AMazing books XXXPHOENIX!

It should be labeled incomplete, but if collectors care very little about it (as it happens here, 90% of collectors do not care for posters of stickers) from a practical point of view it becames a matter of preference – you should always remember collecting markets are very different.

Federico applies his reasoning across boards, so to speak, because he also collects in original language, but most italians really aren’t after the stickers and posters. :shrug:

It should be labeled incomplete, but if collectors care very little about it (as it happens here, 90% of collectors do not care for posters of stickers) from a practical point of view it becames a matter of preference – you should always remember collecting markets are very different.

 

Federico applies his reasoning across boards, so to speak, because he also collects in original language, but most italians really aren’t after the stickers and posters. :shrug:

Yea this makes sense Claudio, My guess is most Italian collectors care little about slabbed books anyway so.... it doesnt really matter. (thumbs u

I have to correct you: 98% of italian collectors would not want a slabbed book.

In fact, there is a friend of mine that has said that if I get involved in trying to introduce pro-grading in Italy, he would stop actively collecting. I know it’s a provocation, but it gives you a good picture.

As for the poster and stickers, I believe they are historically important and for many kids they gave additional "magic" to the comics, but personally I would go after just a few issues which are tied to strong personal experiences, especially considered they are now so expensive.

I am still undecided if I should keep my Defenders posters (I have all three of them, both from ASE, Hulk e i Difensori and I Difensori), and I think I might end up giving them away.

I gave away my italian ASM #31 which included a super-cool Ant-Man poster, so I raised some money to buy 1930s and 1940s italian comics, but I somehow miss it (I never attached it to a wall, it was pristine mint).

Been a good Month for me book-wise!!!!

Greek Xmen 133

Some amazing Wolvie Indonesian books!

A Canadian Marvel Movie Showcase! My Star Wars set is growing like a weed...

Some killer high grade McFarlane Copper Spideys Claudio sent with my Spidey 201.

Another addition to my Star Wars set.

Mexican Spawn! :shock:

Thai Wolverine 1

Spanish Infinity Gauntlet...

Greek 129

And ahhhhh my baby! One of the most beautiful of the non canon Mexican Prensa Spidey's Satanica! :shock:

German 1st Him!

La Prensa Iron man #1

Newton Aussie Iron Man #1 with poster intact!

I have to correct you: 98% of italian collectors would not want a slabbed book.

 

In fact, there is a friend of mine that has said that if I get involved in trying to introduce pro-grading in Italy, he would stop actively collecting. I know it’s a provocation, but it gives you a good picture.

 

As for the poster and stickers, I believe they are historically important and for many kids they gave additional "magic" to the comics, but personally I would go after just a few issues which are tied to strong personal experiences, especially considered they are now so expensive.

I am still undecided if I should keep my Defenders posters (I have all three of them, both from ASE, Hulk e i Difensori and I Difensori), and I think I might end up giving them away.

I gave away my italian ASM #31 which included a super-cool Ant-Man poster, so I raised some money to buy 1930s and 1940s italian comics, but I somehow miss it (I never attached it to a wall, it was pristine mint).

I mis wrote... I meant doesn't really matter..... not "does"

Yes, but the sense was unaltered either way: it does really matter to distinguish between markets, that’s how I’ve read it.

Sorry but I totally disagree:

Posters and stickers form integral part of CORNO comics and a collection of mint books complete with all gadgets possesses an immense economical and hystorical value.

Collectors (mainly italians) who hate CGC are normally hypocritical older guys that very well know their books are not mint as they have been claiming all life but mid or low grades and with plenty of hidden restoration (colour touch etc etc) and oppose to this serious way of collecting and preserving comics with ridicolous excuses like "Comics are made for reading" or "Grading is relative"...

Come on!!! I still have to see somebody browsing the pages of his original high grade AS1!...If you want to read it just get a reprint!!

When I started collecting CGC ( I currently rank 95th (!!) in the world ranking) and submitting books I understood my grading standards were ridicolously low and since then I became extremely selective and picky in terms of conditions of what I wanted to collect.

I hope your friend is not one of those who love the nauseating modern Marvels.... Modern heroes stories are written by no-brainers, art (ahaha can you call it art anymore?) is amateurish and the computer coloring makes me sick after 5 pages .

Federico

I have to correct you: 98% of italian collectors would not want a slabbed book.

 

In fact, there is a friend of mine that has said that if I get involved in trying to introduce pro-grading in Italy, he would stop actively collecting. I know it’s a provocation, but it gives you a good picture.

 

As for the poster and stickers, I believe they are historically important and for many kids they gave additional "magic" to the comics, but personally I would go after just a few issues which are tied to strong personal experiences, especially considered they are now so expensive.

I am still undecided if I should keep my Defenders posters (I have all three of them, both from ASE, Hulk e i Difensori and I Difensori), and I think I might end up giving them away.

I gave away my italian ASM #31 which included a super-cool Ant-Man poster, so I raised some money to buy 1930s and 1940s italian comics, but I somehow miss it (I never attached it to a wall, it was pristine mint).

Federico, with all thye due respect I think you didn’t understand anything of what I was saying.

First, what I have been stating is just an observation on our current market, second the majority of italian collectors really aren’t interested in having comics graded and slabbed: they would just expect a more reliable and consistent grading criteria from sellers. When we talk of a local collecting market (not the USA) we should consider all comics, from all ages, not just italian editions of american comic books.

Aside from this, I can assure you I will deslab immediately my Fantastic Four #1 if I manage to get one.

As Federico said, the ink above and below the book are not, like with US editions, "distributor’s spray", but rather they indicate the book was returned from the newsstands.

I usually do not care about it, but here it affects the value as most people do not like the ink.

 

Strictly speaking "manifesto" translates as poster, they are equivalent words in Italian, but as Federico said, the early posters were larger in size (4x the size of a book) while the late 1970s one were just 2x the size of the book. Always stapled, unlike the first ones which were just inserted in the books.

Interesting.

I wonder if this ever happened with American comics?

As Federico said, the ink above and below the book are not, like with US editions, "distributor’s spray", but rather they indicate the book was returned from the newsstands.

I usually do not care about it, but here it affects the value as most people do not like the ink.

 

Strictly speaking "manifesto" translates as poster, they are equivalent words in Italian, but as Federico said, the early posters were larger in size (4x the size of a book) while the late 1970s one were just 2x the size of the book. Always stapled, unlike the first ones which were just inserted in the books.

Interesting.

I wonder if this ever happened with American comics?

The overspray and the return ink look somewhat different.

First, with the overspray the copy could still be mint, while the return copies usually show at least some minor wear. But above all, the return ink could be pretty invasive, so many italian collectors developed a stigma towards it. Not me, unless it is not so extensive I do not care much.

Here’s an example where the ink is a bit invasive: