Brave & Bold #28: Speculation on future pricing

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primary ink colors? or ROYGBIV primary colors?

Sure, make this thread about me!

wow. I didn't want to take the lead in this color strike discussion, but ended up explaining some details about printing and scanning to make my point. I stand by everything I said.

 

But I must apologize.

 

Because I missed the forest for the trees on this BB28 cover printing issue. Looking at the side by scans posted a few pages back, the overall difference to me was clearly that the one on the right was much yellower than the left image. I assumed that was what people were pointing to about the color strike when printed.

 

But in creating an image to explain the 5% color shift in visible terms, I used the side by side covers to force the left half to match the right.

 

And after adjusting ,oat of the cover on the left to match the right, they STILL looked different, and THATS when it hit me! The difference wasn't the overall yellow tone, it was the GREY vs BLUE cape on John Johnzz, and Aquaman's pants, and WWs panties. AND the word AMERICA in the logo. If thats what you guys were talking about, I completely missed it.

 

The real problem is that there really are about 1 in 30 copies (according only a quick look at all copies sold on Heritage to date) that have a grayer (much less electric) blue ink than the rest.

 

Ive noticed this duller blue before looking at comics printing, because it was hard to get my scans to exactly match the covers in hand (on 40s and 50s books) and can only assume that they used a different "cyan" ink mix from the modern day Cyan. It has to have been a different ink mix because these blue area on the covers were printed 100%; that is, not made of dots, just 100% ink color. Yes all inks can always be printed not "up-to-strength" and appear different, lighter, but it doesn't go from the blue of Johnzz cape to the almost slate grey as we are seeing on these BB28s.

 

 

So, sorry guys for the misleading posts. I stand by my color theory etc, but looks to me now like someone on press ran out of CYAN and maybe swapped in a can of a different "cyan" ink.

 

And since we know covers were printed 4 up to a page back then, Im curious to look at the other 3 covers on press at the same time for the same BLUE swap.

 

 

Heres a link to al of DCs books that month. Only Adventure 269 looked like a candidate… but in this link, the BB28 is printed in blue so we can't judge by these sample images… perhaps 3 other covers here have alternate covers with different blues?

 

http://www.dcindexes.com/features/timemachine.php?site=dc&year=1960&month=2&sort=alpha&type=cover&checklist=off

 

 

Yep, it's the gray/blue color that everyone is talking about. Take a look at Action Comics #252 (almost a year earlier than B&B 28), and you see the same really bright blue on Superman on (most) issues and the (IMO less attractive) grayish-blue on others.

I looked and I don't see the same variance as on BB28… some are darker because they may have more magenta/red ink, but Im not swearing to it. Neither blue looks like the same grayish ink on BB28 though.

wow. I didn't want to take the lead in this color strike discussion, but ended up explaining some details about printing and scanning to make my point. I stand by everything I said.

 

But I must apologize.

 

Because I missed the forest for the trees on this BB28 cover printing issue. Looking at the side by scans posted a few pages back, the overall difference to me was clearly that the one on the right was much yellower than the left image. I assumed that was what people were pointing to about the color strike when printed.

 

But in creating an image to explain the 5% color shift in visible terms, I used the side by side covers to force the left half to match the right.

 

And after adjusting ,oat of the cover on the left to match the right, they STILL looked different, and THATS when it hit me! The difference wasn't the overall yellow tone, it was the GREY vs BLUE cape on John Johnzz, and Aquaman's pants, and WWs panties. AND the word AMERICA in the logo. If thats what you guys were talking about, I completely missed it.

 

The real problem is that there really are about 1 in 30 copies (according only a quick look at all copies sold on Heritage to date) that have a grayer (much less electric) blue ink than the rest.

 

Ive noticed this duller blue before looking at comics printing, because it was hard to get my scans to exactly match the covers in hand (on 40s and 50s books) and can only assume that they used a different "cyan" ink mix from the modern day Cyan. It has to have been a different ink mix because these blue area on the covers were printed 100%; that is, not made of dots, just 100% ink color. Yes all inks can always be printed not "up-to-strength" and appear different, lighter, but it doesn't go from the blue of Johnzz cape to the almost slate grey as we are seeing on these BB28s.

 

 

So, sorry guys for the misleading posts. I stand by my color theory etc, but looks to me now like someone on press ran out of CYAN and maybe swapped in a can of a different "cyan" ink.

 

And since we know covers were printed 4 up to a page back then, Im curious to look at the other 3 covers on press at the same time for the same BLUE swap.

 

 

Heres a link to al of DCs books that month. Only Adventure 269 looked like a candidate… but in this link, the BB28 is printed in blue so we can't judge by these sample images… perhaps 3 other covers here have alternate covers with different blues?

 

http://www.dcindexes.com/features/timemachine.php?site=dc&year=1960&month=2&sort=alpha&type=cover&checklist=off

 

 

Yep, it's the gray/blue color that everyone is talking about. Take a look at Action Comics #252 (almost a year earlier than B&B 28), and you see the same really bright blue on Superman on (most) issues and the (IMO less attractive) grayish-blue on others.

 

I looked and I don't see the same variance as on BB28… some are darker because they may have more magenta/red ink, but Im not swearing to it. Neither blue looks like the same grayish ink on BB28 though.

If you look at this link (same seller, so same scanner), it shows exactly what I'm talking about. Might not be the same as the BB28, but it just shows that certain DCs from the period sometimes have different colors that are consistent and not simply due to fading or scanner settings: http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=dtacoll&hash=item35e2572c66&item=231430630502&pt=US_Comic_Books&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xaction+252&_nkw=action+252&_sacat=0

This blue / grey variance is real and it's also seen on early Marvel's.

J.I.M. #83, #115 and #117 come to mind.

wow. I didn't want to take the lead in this color strike discussion, but ended up explaining some details about printing and scanning to make my point. I stand by everything I said.

 

But I must apologize.

 

Because I missed the forest for the trees on this BB28 cover printing issue. Looking at the side by scans posted a few pages back, the overall difference to me was clearly that the one on the right was much yellower than the left image. I assumed that was what people were pointing to about the color strike when printed.

 

But in creating an image to explain the 5% color shift in visible terms, I used the side by side covers to force the left half to match the right.

 

And after adjusting ,oat of the cover on the left to match the right, they STILL looked different, and THATS when it hit me! The difference wasn't the overall yellow tone, it was the GREY vs BLUE cape on John Johnzz, and Aquaman's pants, and WWs panties. AND the word AMERICA in the logo. If thats what you guys were talking about, I completely missed it.

 

The real problem is that there really are about 1 in 30 copies (according only a quick look at all copies sold on Heritage to date) that have a grayer (much less electric) blue ink than the rest.

 

Ive noticed this duller blue before looking at comics printing, because it was hard to get my scans to exactly match the covers in hand (on 40s and 50s books) and can only assume that they used a different "cyan" ink mix from the modern day Cyan. It has to have been a different ink mix because these blue area on the covers were printed 100%; that is, not made of dots, just 100% ink color. Yes all inks can always be printed not "up-to-strength" and appear different, lighter, but it doesn't go from the blue of Johnzz cape to the almost slate grey as we are seeing on these BB28s.

 

 

So, sorry guys for the misleading posts. I stand by my color theory etc, but looks to me now like someone on press ran out of CYAN and maybe swapped in a can of a different "cyan" ink.

 

And since we know covers were printed 4 up to a page back then, Im curious to look at the other 3 covers on press at the same time for the same BLUE swap.

 

 

Heres a link to al of DCs books that month. Only Adventure 269 looked like a candidate… but in this link, the BB28 is printed in blue so we can't judge by these sample images… perhaps 3 other covers here have alternate covers with different blues?

 

http://www.dcindexes.com/features/timemachine.php?site=dc&year=1960&month=2&sort=alpha&type=cover&checklist=off

 

 

Yep, it's the gray/blue color that everyone is talking about. Take a look at Action Comics #252 (almost a year earlier than B&B 28), and you see the same really bright blue on Superman on (most) issues and the (IMO less attractive) grayish-blue on others.

....It's been a while since I looked at a copy.... but I remember wondering if a higher percentage Cyan screen somehow may have not made it to the plate early in the print run. Foolkiller picked up a real nice copy from a friend a while back..... it was a "gray" version and ended up a blue label 7.5. As I recall, it's only the areas that are deep blue on regular copies that are affected. As was mentioned earlier, this gray variety also seems to occur on Action 252 and Challengers of the Unknown 1 ...... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

A bit off the usual subject, but has anyone ever noticed that many of the DC heroes can be identified with a particular symbol or logo? In comparison to Marvel heroes who typically are not associated with such.

For instance:

Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, The Flash, Hawkman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Firestorm, Robin, Shazam, Aquaman, Vixen, Black Lightning, Static Shock, etc.

When I think of Marvel characters, the only symbols that come to mind are:

Spiderman, Daredevil, Captain America and Deadpool...

If you want to think of "groups" I guess you can include The Fantastic Four, The Avengers and The X-Men.

Anyway it's interesting to note that there's more iconography associated with the DC heroes.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Rock-Promises-Black-Adam-Showdown-With-Batman-Superman-69726.html

In an interview with Total Film, Dwayne Johnson revealed that while we can expect that Shazam’s tone will be different than most of the other DC films currently in the works at Warner Bros., fans can expect Black Adam to eventually cross into the grander cinematic universe, specifically in terms of epic fights with its heroes. Said wrestler-turned-actor:

 

It was all agreed that the worlds are all interconnected… One day you will see Black Adam go at it with Superman or Batman or any of the DC characters. But that said, there’s a great independence to Black Adam from the DC world, allowing us to inject, not only viciousness, but also winking humour.

Adding to his comments about Black Adam's place in the DC Cinematic Universe, Dwayne Johnson also noted that although he will be Shazam’s nemesis, Black Adam will grow into being an anti-hero, and that his character development and history is "written within the spirit of respecting and paying homage to the comics." This is in reference to what's been going on in recent years, which have had Black Adam morphing into a complicated individual that wants to what’s best for his people, but goes about it in questionable ways.

Sweet. I need to find another 9.8 Shazam #28 then.......

Looks like prices are starting to move up a bit again. The last 3.5 hit $2898 and the 5.0 on HA went for $4302 on Sunday.

So, what are the Wonder Woman SA keys that are still cheap?

So, what are the Wonder Woman SA keys that are still cheap?

Sadly, she isn't a really good silver age character. Golden age yes! but silver age I honestly rather pass. I don't know many people willing to dump thousands on silver age wonder woman comics. Maybe they are out there? She is included in the BB28. But otherwise maybe some books will gain some value.

The clink 7.0 finished at $9100. The buyer hit a homerun, since the prices are starting to run again.

The clink 7.0 finished at $9100. The buyer hit a homerun, since the prices are starting to run again.

Yes, the buyer hit a home run but only with the grade. Personally, I didn't like the looks of that copy at all. There was writing in the DC logo so that turns off some people. The poor page quality and dust shadows on the FC will turn off more people. I suspect the BC is really brown, the top edge is pretty ragged. It did have nice registration but otherwise it was not very appealing for a 7.0 .

For a collector in for the long hall, Metro's 7.5 @ 15K doesn't seem like a bad course of action.... GOD BLESS...

0jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

....... and, oh, how I love that cover....what an Icon.

The clink 7.0 finished at $9100. The buyer hit a homerun, since the prices are starting to run again.

 

Yes, the buyer hit a home run but only with the grade. Personally, I didn't like the looks of that copy at all. There was writing in the DC logo so that turns off some people. The poor page quality and dust shadows on the FC will turn off more people. I suspect the BC is really brown, the top edge is pretty ragged. It did have nice registration but otherwise it was not very appealing for a 7.0 .

Nothing get's by this mans eyes.

For a collector in for the long hall, Metro's 7.5 @ 15K doesn't seem like a bad course of action.... GOD BLESS...

 

0jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

....... and, oh, how I love that cover....what an Icon.

Truly not a bad deal...considering folks might have missed this 6.5 GPA sale:

Feb-23-2015 $11,995 Cert# 1200203001

or even this prior 7.5 GPA:

Dec-02-2014 $20,500 PQ: OW-W

It's nice, but at the same time sad, that DC keys are starting to get the love that has been mostly reserved for Marvel keys the last few decades. I wish I had bought a few more copies when they were still fairly cheap . . . well affordable.

I was really surprised at the final price on this one:

The Brave and the Bold #28 Justice League of America (DC, 1960) CGC Apparent GD+ 2.5

$657.25 including buyer's premium, and the restoration read, "Restoration includes: color touch, pieces added, tear seals, reinforced. (First three and eighth wraps married. Top and bottom edges of cover trimmed.)"

So half the book was married, with 2 edges trimmed, and still close to full 2.0 guide price.

Nice. Let's see this book run up a bit in all grades........