General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean

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In regards to my original post:

 

I have a question that I hope someone(s) would be able to give me insight on.

When listing CGC graded pre-sales, or items for sale that are being made available from the conventions etc. Is it right to assume that the CGC pre-sale grade should be a CGC 9.8 even if it is not stated in the ad specifically?

 

I ask this because I would like to make sure other board members do not get burned, disappointed, or taken advantage of because their expectations are to receive a 9.8 graded book if the ad or sales thread doesn't say specifically. A similar situation just happened to be me, and I would hate to have it happen to someone else.

 

I would also ask that maybe we should make it mandatory that a grade expectation is listed for CGC pre-sales? For example: Seller(s) should post "No grade assigned" or minimum 9.8...

Thoughts anyone?

 

I would like to add this issue was resolved. And I am happy with the end result.

A-DONIS and I talked through the resolution, I was refunded my money and also kept the book. I thought this was fair and equitable seeing that I was under the belief that I was going to receive a 9.8 CGC graded book but got a 9.6. The refund along with the value of the 9.6 CGC SS book to me was a fair end result.

Having said all that, I would like to get back to the original point that I still hope, going forward with "presales" in general, that we can reach some sort of consensus that as buyers and sellers we should be able expect a minimum CGC 9.8 and that the sellers are going to give us a 9.8 CGC graded copy unless specifically stated otherwise or previously agreed upon for whatever reason.

 

Sincerely,

Justin Tnic Otyme

Congratulations.

I will never sell to you.

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

If I had my druthers I'd give the buyer a partial refund, tell him to keep the book, and he can do with it as he pleases.

I know Adonis has had some issues in the past, but it's not his fault the buyer made assumptions on what he was buying. Bad form on keeping the book, IMO.

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

I don't think that's the right choice either.

I just know if I was in the buyer's position, there's no way I accept keeping the book and 100% refund. Doesn't that make A-DONIS look like such a great seller and the buyer is in the wrong.

I think a refund of some sorts and keeping the book would have been fair since A-DONIS had several opportunities to correct the buyer's 9.8 expectations and failed to do so.

a) return the book for full refund - A-DONIS clearly wins

b) keep the book and full refund - buyer clearly wins

c) partial refund since A-DONIS clearly misled the buyer, whether intentionally or unintentionally, by failed to correct the buyer's assumptions of "this is a 9.8, right?"

I would think "c" is the only fair solution here.

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

It would be nice if Justin donated it to a charity thread or the raffle.

Sadly, I think that's being overly optimistic though. How long before the book is up on eBay?

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

If I had my druthers I'd give the buyer a partial refund, tell him to keep the book, and he can do with it as he pleases.

 

I know Adonis has had some issues in the past, but it's not his fault the buyer made assumptions on what he was buying. Bad form on keeping the book, IMO.

I agree with everything you say except this point.

If you're selling a raw book and the buyer continues saying "this will be a 9.8, right?", I think you have an obligation to temper the buyer's expectations or assume the consequences when it doesn't come back a 9.8. A-DONIS should have said something. Maybe his grading as good as he thinks it is which is something for everyone watching this to remeber if you'd still even consider buying something from him at this point.

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

If I had my druthers I'd give the buyer a partial refund, tell him to keep the book, and he can do with it as he pleases.

 

I know Adonis has had some issues in the past, but it's not his fault the buyer made assumptions on what he was buying. Bad form on keeping the book, IMO.

 

I agree with everything you say except this point.

 

If you're selling a raw book and the buyer continues saying "this will be a 9.8, right?", I think you have an obligation to temper the buyer's expectations or assume the consequences when it doesn't come back a 9.8. A-DONJS should have said something. Maybe his grading as good as he thinks it is which is something for everyone watching this to remeber if you'd still even consider buying something from him at this point.

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

If I had my druthers I'd give the buyer a partial refund, tell him to keep the book, and he can do with it as he pleases.

 

I know Adonis has had some issues in the past, but it's not his fault the buyer made assumptions on what he was buying. Bad form on keeping the book, IMO.

 

I agree with everything you say except this point.

 

If you're selling a raw book and the buyer continues saying "this will be a 9.8, right?", I think you have an obligation to temper the buyer's expectations or assume the consequences when it doesn't come back a 9.8. A-DONJS should have said something. Maybe his grading as good as he thinks it is which is something for everyone watching this to remeber if you'd still even consider buying something from him at this point.

I would place more value in that question if it came before throwing out the and sending the seller money, not after.

Donating the book to the raffle is a great idea, it would take some of the stink out of the situation.

SO the appropriate action is for Adonis to get the 9.6 back where he can than sell it for double what it was offered to the buyer?

 

I don't think that's the right choice either.

 

I just know if I was in the buyer's position, there's no way I accept keeping the book and 100% refund. Doesn't that make A-DONIS look like such a great seller and the buyer is in the wrong.

 

I think a refund of some sorts and keeping the book would have been fair since A-DONIS had several opportunities to correct the buyer's 9.8 expectations and failed to do so.

 

a) return the book for full refund - A-DONIS clearly wins

b) keep the book and full refund - buyer clearly wins

c) partial refund since A-DONIS clearly misled the buyer, whether intentionally or unintentionally, by failed to correct the buyer's assumptions of "this is a 9.8, right?"

 

I would think "c" is the only fair solution here.

Not necessarily true. wytches NYCC have a lot of data points - $275-$400 or so in 9.8. I don't know what the data shows in 9.6. In fact, I'm not sure that any 9.6s have sold. Adonis pre sold them so cheaply that once the nycc variant blew up, it was a disaster waiting to happen. I don't think anyone can say there Is right or wrong solution, because there was never a clear deal.

I actually lean more toward the idea that JTT knew or should have known that he was getting the best copy Adonis could find. Not a guaranteed 9.8. The whole transaction was a poorly communicated mishmash of expectations. I am certainly not bothered by the Seller taking it in the shorts. I think it is lame that the buyer gets a huge windfall, but that is probably the lesser of two evils.

After thinking about it more, I think that would be the best possible outcome: full refund and donating the book to something. The alternative is either A-DONIS wins with a short term loan and gets to sell the book for more OR buyer gets to keep the book for free. Neither is a good situation and this was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

If the book was donated and buyer refunded, no one "wins" and hopefully both buyer and seller use this as a learning experience. Sadly, I doubt that will be the case.

Neither party looks good in the end after this debacle.

Donate the book, take the cannoli

Donate the book, take the cannoli

As you were writing that, I was picking up some bagels at the local bakery. Cannolis.

Take the cannoli, leave the bagels

Guys, I appreciate all your input.

What I am going to do, (since there, at this point is no winners between the two parties) I am going to refund his money back, keep the book, and chalk it up as a learning experience.

Please keep in mind my original and still main intent was the to look out for this "community" so that in these types of transaction expectations are known, understood, etc. So that these types of situations in the future are avoided.

(thumbs u

For the future, you should follow the Probation Discussion thread. You might have saved yourself a headache as A-DONIS' name has been already brought up several times. These Boards have some great sellers. However, there is no way to keep out schmucks. It's really up to buyers to know who they are buying from.

Here is part of the transaction, leaving out personal information:

(thumbs u

Well played and a cautionary tale for all.

Dan