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1st Teen Titans
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1,128 posts in this topic

I agree with Yoddler, BB 60 may well be harder to find in high grade because of the black cover. So that's not a bet I would take. A price comparison in low grade might tell us more about the actual demand versus supply. To be frank, though, TT collectors should want both issues.

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A quick search on eBay shows that BB 60 recently sold on eBay for the following prices:

 

10/28 - $16.50

 

10/26 - $29.95

 

10/25 - $29.99

 

10/24 - $30.00

 

10/23 - $203.50

 

10/23 - $195.00

 

10/23 - $39.44

 

10/23 - $102.00

 

10/22 - $36.00

 

Etc. Doesn't look hard to get a copy.

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Does anyone care about message board polls? I didn't even vote.

 

The way to tell how the market votes is go search the auction sites for BB 54 and BB 60. What you'll find is that BB 54 is uniformly referred to as the first TT appearance. The market for comics speaks through dealer listings and prices paid.

 

Right. Which is why no one has argued that BB 60 is uniformly referred to as the first TT appearance. Your League of Super Straw Men notwithstanding, what we've argued is that--just like Sgt. Rock--with time the consensus will change and people will recognize that the Teen Titans don't appear in BB 54. Not even in the first sentence of the last caption, written by someone other than the writer and the editor.

 

Let's see what Overstreet and the market say five or ten years from now, as reprints and especially digitalization give people the ability to read these for themselves. Until then, your pretense to the contrary notwithstanding, no one is arguing that the market considers BB 60 the first appearance.

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A quick search on eBay shows that BB 60 recently sold on eBay for the following prices:

 

10/28 - $16.50

 

10/26 - $29.95

 

10/25 - $29.99

 

10/24 - $30.00

 

10/23 - $203.50

 

10/23 - $195.00

 

10/23 - $39.44

 

10/23 - $102.00

 

10/22 - $36.00

 

Etc. Doesn't look hard to get a copy.

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As I said, re-read my posts.

 

I agree with Yoddler, BB 60 may well be harder to find in high grade because of the black cover. So that's not a bet I would take. A price comparison in low grade might tell us more about the actual demand versus supply. To be frank, though, TT collectors should want both issues.
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That is why I find the word "canonical" in the DC wiki write up fascinating. Whomever wrote this was a student of literature, possibly even biblical scripture. It is a direct reference to the New Testament where the book that appears first was actually wrote last. Mark begat Matthew, but it is Matthew that introduces the reader to Christianity. There are 4 "canonical" books of the New Testament. This is where the word originates.

 

By using the word canonical, the author of the wiki entry for BB 60 is stating that this is the book that removes all doubt and ambiguity. This is a very strongly worded statement. I wish there was more clarity into who wrote this.

 

OT: Most modern scholars believe that John, rather than Matthew, was the last of the Gospels to be written. You are correct, though, that few today uphold the ancient church tradition that Matthew was the first Gospel to be written. There are a few die hards who uphold the traditional order by arguing that Mark is a truncated version of Matthew. The consensus is that Mark was written first and the author of Matthew had both Mark and other material before him when he wrote. (And although there are 4 Gospels, there are 27 canonical books in the New Testament.)

 

I doubt the author of the Wiki entry was referring to the New Testament. The word "canon" has been used for many years in reference to the body of work of a popular author. I believe that Sherlock Holmes fans were using it as far back as the 1930s. In recent years, I've seen it applied to the work of Tolkien, Burroughs, and L. Frank Baum. My guess is that the author of the Wiki entry was using canonical in this casual sense.

 

With respect to BB 54 v. BB 60, I'm agnostic. lol

 

At least it's not as convoluted as the whole Sgt. Rock rigamarole, which makes my head hurt every time I read about it. :pullhair:

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You are a scholarly poet, Squeggs. As a student of literature myself (Bachelors degree) I found it interesting terminology to use in the description. It's the first time Ive seen the word "canonical" used to describe the first appearance of any team or character in comics. IMO, I find it to be a good choice of words given the circumstances.

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For the record, I cannot argue intent. All I can do is provide my interpretation of the author's chosen words.

You are correct, Squeggs. I have often seen "canon" used to describe a body of work. For example, Confederacy of Dunces is part of the Southern literary canon. I believe the author describing the BB 60 is using "canonical" as an adjective. In other words, he is aware that 54 begat 60. He is using "canonical" as an allegory to interject a clear example of why this reasoning is invalid and weak. Otherwise the author would use 1st full, 1st cameo, or just plain 1st appearance of the Teen Titans. hm

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I think all hahas been said and done in this thread. It is quite clear 60 is the first appearance, and 54 is the origin.

 

Logically and chronologically the origin or backdrop for the formation of a team happens before the formation. However, in comics we are used to them only telling us "why" these guys formed a group after we are introduced to the group.

 

This is one of the rare cases where we see the origin/the why...before the group is formed.

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"Teen Titans A Celebration of 50 Years" is now out. Not surprisingly, it starts with the very first Teen Titans story: Brave and the Bold #54.

 

Interestingly, it does not even include B&B 60 in the collection.

 

So now we know DC's position.

 

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"Teen Titans A Celebration of 50 Years" is now out. Not surprisingly, it starts with the very first Teen Titans story: Brave and the Bold #54.

 

Interestingly, it does not even include B&B 60 in the collection.

 

So now we know DC's position.

 

Collects: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD #54; SHOWCASE #59; TEEN TITANS (VOL. 1) #25, 50; TEEN TITANS: YEAR ONE #5; THE NEW TEEN TITANS #6, 38, 83; TALES OF THE TEEN TITANS ANNUAL #3; TEEN TITANS (VOL. 2) #5; YOUNG JUSTICE #7; TEEN TITANS (VOL. 3) #5, 39; TEEN TITANS (VOL. 4) #1; TINY TITANS #4; TEEN TITANS GO! #5. :roflmao:

 

Not a Teen Titans guru...but those don't sound like key or important books. Maybe a Titans fan can correct me. No Teen Titans (Vol. 1) #1, Brave & Bold #60, or DC Presents #26. Hell, Id throw in the bronze age Uncanny X-Men/New Teen Titans crossover before I throw in some of the books I see listed in their "celebration of 50 years" book. :eyeroll:

 

Sounds more like a book that shows how the group has changed over the last 50 years since the first team-up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by akaSteveRogers
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"Teen Titans A Celebration of 50 Years" is now out. Not surprisingly, it starts with the very first Teen Titans story: Brave and the Bold #54.

 

Interestingly, it does not even include B&B 60 in the collection.

 

So now we know DC's position.

 

Collects: THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD #54; SHOWCASE #59; TEEN TITANS (VOL. 1) #25, 50; TEEN TITANS: YEAR ONE #5; THE NEW TEEN TITANS #6, 38, 83; TALES OF THE TEEN TITANS ANNUAL #3; TEEN TITANS (VOL. 2) #5; YOUNG JUSTICE #7; TEEN TITANS (VOL. 3) #5, 39; TEEN TITANS (VOL. 4) #1; TINY TITANS #4; TEEN TITANS GO! #5. :roflmao:

 

Not a Teen Titans guru...but those don't sound like key or important books. Maybe a Titans fan can correct me. No Teen Titans (Vol. 1) #1, Brave & Bold #60, or DC Presents #26. Hell, Id throw in the bronze age Uncanny X-Men/New Teen Titans crossover before I throw in some of the books I see listed in their "celebration of 50 years" book. :eyeroll:

 

Sounds more like a book that shows how the group has changed over the last 50 years since the first team-up.

 

Looks like DC's position is that BB 54 is just another random and insignificant book judging by what they grouped it with.

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