1st Teen Titans

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I think the greatest argument as to why Brave and the Bold #60 should be labeled the 1st Teen Titans 40 some years after 54 was given such a label is the "monies" involved.

I'm not sure if the argument is that large between people. I won't argue which issue is more important. I would just say IMO that the labeling is technically incorrect for these book.

BB54: First team up and origin of "teen" heroes/junior justice league that later become named the teen titans.

BB60: Team of "teen" heroes/junior justice league from BB54 along with Wonder Girl is officially named the Teen Titans.

"BB54: Origin and first appearance of the Teen Titans" is not the correct thing to say, IMO.

I think the greatest argument as to why Brave and the Bold #60 should be labeled the 1st Teen Titans 40 some years after 54 was given such a label is the "monies" involved.

 

(thumbs u

Anyone who proclaims to be shining an altruistic beacon of truth to set the record straight is kidding themselves...

Buddy, all the money in the world cannot re-write history. BB 60 completes the team and calls them the Teen Titans. Every reference noted by DC states the team was formed after the events of 54. If DC intended 54 to be the first Teen Titans, don't you think they would have introduced them as such in the first place?

Yet another red herring from the BB 54 crowd. It's easier than unsuccessfully arguing the merits of the book itself.

I think the greatest argument as to why Brave and the Bold #60 should be labeled the 1st Teen Titans 40 some years after 54 was given such a label is the "monies" involved.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

Anyone who proclaims to be shining an altruistic beacon of truth to set the record straight is kidding themselves...

Nice BB 54 you have there, Yoddler.

Look, please don't shoot the messenger. As I mentioned before I have a couple 60's. Financially speaking, I have put my money where my mouth is.

I'm not trying to alienate anyone here. I'm just pointing out at the very least there is certainly some grey area. We all share a common interest that brought us here. That does not mean we cannot disagree from time to time

Clearly this debate is deteriorating quickly...

To this point both sides have argued well with merit, but nothing either side has said will change the other. No need to denigrate other's opinions on a personal level. If it weren't for recent announcements of television and movie properties involving the Teen Titans, there probably wouldn't be any questions regarding the timing and motivation of the debate...

All debate aside, the industry has already decided that 54 is the origin and first appearance. Period. I wish you luck in your efforts to persuade the "BB 54 crowd" that your opinion is better. You may just be right!

I think the greatest argument as to why Brave and the Bold #60 should be labeled the 1st Teen Titans 40 some years after 54 was given such a label is the "monies" involved.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

Anyone who proclaims to be shining an altruistic beacon of truth to set the record straight is kidding themselves...

 

Nice BB 54 you have there, Yoddler.

 

Look, please don't shoot the messenger. As I mentioned before I have a couple 60's. Financially speaking, I have put my money where my mouth is.

 

I'm not trying to alienate anyone here. I'm just pointing out at the very least there is certainly some grey area. We all share a common interest that brought us here. That does not mean we cannot disagree from time to time

I've already disclosed in this thread I own both 54 and 60. As I said though, you may just be right! (thumbs u

I think the greatest argument as to why Brave and the Bold #60 should be labeled the 1st Teen Titans 40 some years after 54 was given such a label is the "monies" involved.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

Anyone who proclaims to be shining an altruistic beacon of truth to set the record straight is kidding themselves...

I don't believe that. I have nice copies of both books (I am a B&B collector, not a Teen Titans collector). I have read both books multiple times and proclaimed often that BB 54 is one of my favorite silver age books. I also believe that it is NOT the first appearance of the Teen Titans, 60 is. I have no intention on selling my copies or going after upgrades or buying more for future profit potential.

I think the greatest argument as to why Brave and the Bold #60 should be labeled the 1st Teen Titans 40 some years after 54 was given such a label is the "monies" involved.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

Anyone who proclaims to be shining an altruistic beacon of truth to set the record straight is kidding themselves...

 

I don't believe that. I have nice copies of both books (I am a B&B collector, not a Teen Titans collector). I have read both books multiple times and proclaimed often that BB 54 is one of my favorite silver age books. I also believe that it is NOT the first appearance of the Teen Titans, 60 is. I have no intention on selling my copies or going after upgrades or buying more for future profit potential.

I concede this is a sweeping generalization and take it back, but individual motivation on either side is not so easily defined.

there is evidence as has been posted that DC considers 54 just being a teamup which you now convienently dismiss.

 

You were right in that if you want the whole story BB 54 is part of it and should have stopped there, nobody disagrees with you but the rest you're just fighting an incoming wave.

 

You and I are going to have disagree on the existence of an incoming wave and the role of dealers (who are the market makers and comprise the Overstreet advisors) in resolving these kind of disputes. But, that's a matter of opinion.

 

I'm more intrigued by what "evidence" that DC considers BB 54 as just "a teamup" you think I am "conveniently dismissing." The way I see it, the wikia is clearly not evidence of what DC thinks. The only person who thinks otherwise is blazing, and I don't think he gets wiki's. Which leaves the following evidence of DC's views on whether BB 54 was the origin of a new team of DC superheros:

 

* In 1964, BB 54 concludes by stating that "Once again, a startling new team of DC heroes has triumphed!"

 

* In 1965, BB 60 does not, contrary to DC practice, tout itself as "introducing" a new team. Instead, the text of BB 60 makes clear that the formation of the team pre-dates BB 60 and there is a specific citation back to BB 54.

 

* In 1973, DC 100 Page Super Spectacular 21 reprints BB 54 as a "Teen Titans" story.

 

* In 1978, TT 53 retcons a new origin of Teen Titans and refers to BB 54 as a "team-up" before the team was formed.

 

* In 1985, the "Official Teen Titans Index" denoted the first Teen Titans appearance as BB 54. That index was approved by the staff of DC and consultants included Jerry Bails and George Olshevsky.

 

* In 2003, DC Archives reprints BB 54 as the first Teen Titans adventure.

 

Aside from the footnote to the retcon, seems pretty clear that DC has always viewed BB 54 as an adventure of the "new team of DC heroes" that were first named the "Teen Titans" in BB 60.

/END THREAD

Y'know I would be real curious to see the panel from the Teen Titan index if anyone would care to throw it up

I think the greatest argument as to why Brave and the Bold #60 should be labeled the 1st Teen Titans 40 some years after 54 was given such a label is the "monies" involved.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

Anyone who proclaims to be shining an altruistic beacon of truth to set the record straight is kidding themselves...

 

I don't believe that. I have nice copies of both books (I am a B&B collector, not a Teen Titans collector). I have read both books multiple times and proclaimed often that BB 54 is one of my favorite silver age books. I also believe that it is NOT the first appearance of the Teen Titans, 60 is. I have no intention on selling my copies or going after upgrades or buying more for future profit potential.

More of these type of collectors then people think (I am in the same boat and enjoy both books for what they are). If you were a reader of the Titans you'd also realize that Wonder Girl was an integral part of what "we" consider the initial Teen Titans. It doesn't discount the team up in 54, which again is part of the Titans lore by anyone's measure, but people will value what they want in this thread at this point right or wrong.

I think the greatest argument as to why Brave and the Bold #60 should be labeled the 1st Teen Titans 40 some years after 54 was given such a label is the "monies" involved.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

Anyone who proclaims to be shining an altruistic beacon of truth to set the record straight is kidding themselves...

 

I don't believe that. I have nice copies of both books (I am a B&B collector, not a Teen Titans collector). I have read both books multiple times and proclaimed often that BB 54 is one of my favorite silver age books. I also believe that it is NOT the first appearance of the Teen Titans, 60 is. I have no intention on selling my copies or going after upgrades or buying more for future profit potential.

 

More of these type of collectors then people think (I am in the same boat and enjoy both books for what they are). If you were a reader of the Titans you'd also realize that Wonder Girl was an integral part of what "we" consider the initial Teen Titans. It doesn't discount the team up in 54, which again is part of the Titans lore by anyone's measure, but people will value what they want in this thread at this point right or wrong.

Not sure I would categorize people as "we" because that's just a slippery slope and implies there's an "us" that's better than "them"...

I am a Teen Titans reader. Would it surprise you that I have a different but no less valid opinion?

 

Look, please don't shoot the messenger. As I mentioned before I have a couple of 60's. Financially speaking, I have put my money where my mouth is.

 

I have no financial interest in this debate. I sold my TT's long long ago. My mouth isn't following my money nor, as in blazing's case, is my money following my mouth. I'm totally agnostic on the issue, other than truth matters to me and i'm a TT fan. Still, I don't care if someone has a financial interest, that may explain bias, but bias doesn't matter if you got a good argument. Here, however, I think the Price Guide and Dealers have got this right for the past forty years.

There's a lot of places where I think the PG gets it wrong (most "prototype issues," for example), but this isn't one of them.

Still trying to understand the difference between the book pictured above and the BB54

Blazing,

Did you know that DC is promoting 2014 as the 50th Anniversary of the Teen Titans? Get it, 50 years after BB 54 (1964) not BB 60 (1965).

See here, but be sure to read the update:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/08/13/why-dont-dc-comics-give-a-damn-about-the-teen-titans-50th-anniversary/

So DC is releasing a book called 50 Years of Teen Titans and the author of the article even states that the team was first called the Teen Titans in BB 60. It's not like they timed the release of the new hardcover to hit stores on the 50th Anny of BB 54. Ironically, the book will hit the shelves about 50 years after the halfway point in between BB 54 & BB 60. And where does it say DC is promoting 2014 as the year of the Teen Titans? No comment on the 1st Defenders either? Some of the propaganda in this thread is out of control.

This thread has been more interesting than an episode of Comic Book Men. Perry Mason or Matlock would be proud of all the information, evidence and arguments put forth.

Still trying to understand the difference between the book pictured above and the BB54

Probably the biggest difference is that BB 54 concludes by celebrating the creation of a "new team of DC heroes" and Subby doesn't. Probably the second biggest difference is the next issue of Subby doesn't refer back to the prior issue as the origin of that new team.