Lucifer ordered for a Fox pilot

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(with the exception of course being the #8 editorial variant which only has about 30 known surviving copies,

 

Interesting.

 

Where did you get this information?

 

 

Just took a quick look at the census.

 

-J.

 

There are 34 copies on the census.

 

What makes you think the census represents all surviving copies?

 

...."known" copies. There were what only 600 originally made and handed out in just two locations in California ? That particular issue has been sought after for some time. It's a safe bet the majority of them are known to the market at this point. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Those that aren't known to the market probably just haven't been brought to the market. Unless somebody made a huge effort to acquire and hoard them and then just happened to get caught in a hurricane or a fire, I'd guess that instead of 34 known copies there have are less than 34 copies from the original run that were destroyed and that only a small percentage have been damaged to less than newsstand condition.

 

I'm not sure about that. There were only about 600 printed and many were given away at just two comic book shops in LA and San Fran. The story is that not even all of the original 600 were handed out, that some of the remaining were kept and sold on the secondary market and the rest destroyed.

 

I think a close comparison would be the batman 608rrp. There were around 500 of those given out to dealers in 2002. Once they became highly collectible, copies started hitting cgc in force. Now there are about 280 on the census.

 

Sandman 8 editorial came out in 1989, and it has been considered the holy grail of the series for the better part of a decade.

 

And even now, 25 years later, barely 30 copies are on the census.

 

Based on those percentages, I'd be surprised if even 100 total copies have survived. That's one rare book.

 

-J.

 

You're confusing the census with what is "known." The census does not represent the final word on what is known to exist, and what is not.

 

There are reasons why the book isn't represented by bigger numbers on the census; for example, the editorial is what makes it special, and once the book is slabbed, it has to be unslabbed to look at it, which prevents people from slabbing them in the first place.

 

Also...females make up a larger percentage of Sandman collectors than standard superhero books, and female comic fans both hold onto their collectibles much tighter than men (they are collectors in the truest sense, and how much money they might make selling it doesn't generally factor into it), and tend not to be as much into slabbing.

Are you not generalizing about female Sandman collectors and female collectors in particular? How exactly do you know this?

This is a 1989 book, not a 1949 book...people who bought Sandman (and most comics in 1989) are and were very, very unlikely to dispose of them in the trash.

 

Sandman #8 variant has been a "grail" (oh, how I hate this word) since it became generally known in early 1990, not just the last decade. By the time it came out, Sandman had gained considerable word of mouth buzz, and was fast becoming a "hot book." These books, even when they cool down, have much less chance of being tossed than books that were never hot to begin with (like, say, New Gods.)

 

Where do you get the information that the remaining copies were destroyed....?

 

There are many more than 30, or 100, copies of this book still in existence.

I would have to agree with this. The census is not a good measure of how many copies of a comic exist. We need to remember, a small percentage of comics get slabbed.

Okay, I just worked my way through all the postings on this thread. Wow. I almost want to say

except some of these threads have been educational.

I do have a question about the Batman 608 RRP. Where is the 500 printed number coming from? I looked on the Internet and I see lots of places claiming there are 200 printed. Then I saw another place claim it was probably 400 printed because of how many have been sold. I'm wondering if the 500 printed guess isn't too low considering how often this book comes up for sale and how many copies are in the census. It seems like maybe more copies have been printed as I'm having a hard time believing everyone who has owned a copy had it slabbed and sold it. It's possible I guess, but it seems like this would be an issue that Batman collectors would covet, not resell.

Did DC come out and say how many were printed? Where can I find that information?

 

Also...females make up a larger percentage of Sandman collectors than standard superhero books, and female comic fans both hold onto their collectibles much tighter than men (they are collectors in the truest sense, and how much money they might make selling it doesn't generally factor into it), and tend not to be as much into slabbing.

 

Are you not generalizing about female Sandman collectors and female collectors in particular?

Absolutely.

How exactly do you know this?

Direct experience.

What is "obvious" about the idea that most copies of a popular comic book from 1989 (that has never been worthless) have been destroyed?

 

I didn't say they were "destroyed". However as many have pointed out the comic was popular in its day, then not so much as a back issue, and then was re discovered again later. A lot can happen in that time to a book. I personally mis-placed, lost, or had stolen nearly half my OO Sandman collection. Where did they go? I thought I had them in that one short box but they're not there anymore ? What happened ?

 

I can't explain why there are scarce numbers of the book or on the census or out there on the open market. I can only speculate. And I simply choose to follow the publicly available data points to the logical conclusion that their survival rate is minimal. For whatever reason. I'm not sure why that riles people up. I have acknowledged other peoples' points as being valid feasible and possible. Taken together I do believe it explains "some" of the book's scarcity. Why no one else seems to want to acknowledge the possibility (probability) that the book is under represented simply because their survival rate is just plain less than what they wish to believe is truly a mystery to me.

 

-J.

Finally home - just checked, I have 2 slabbed copies (one blue label, one SS) and 5 raw copies.

 

alert chrisco, the 50% barrier of 'surviving' copies has been shattered.

No, I counted Mike's copies in both my original counts (giving him 5 raws and including his 2 as part of the census count).

I didn't read the whole thread, but isn't Lucifer's first appearance in Jimmy Olsen 65?

edit: He's in the whole story, but here's were he's actually called Lucifer:

Again, I am not only looking at the census. I am also looking at overall availability on the market. On any given day there are 5-6 copies of Tick #1 on the market, both slabbed and raw. There are additional 5-10 viewable closed listings as well. The book is handy to whomever wants to buy one, whenever.

 

The better example really is the Batman 608 RRP. It had a print run only of about 500, but on any given day you can find a couple available for sale, and a raw copy will also still pop up every now and then. It is also 13 years newer than the Sandman 8 editorial, and even it has 281 copies slabbed on the census, over half its print run. Why? Because it is a potential four figure, highly sought after book. Not everyone is a dealer, and slabs a book because they are going to sell it. Many people slab books to better preserve and protect them. I personally will slab any book that attains a value of $150 or more. I still do not accept that a people are not slabbing all their Sandman 8's, because it will prevent them from reading the editorial. A person can't read any part of their comic book when they slab it no matter what, the editorial doesn't vaporize or cease to exist once the book is slabbed. The book is still what it is. Do people not slab AF 15's because then they can't re-read the first appearance of Spiderman? Of course not.

 

The main difference between the RRP and the #8 is that the RRP was given to dealers and was always destined to end up on the secondary market. The #8 was handed out directly to customers at just two local LCS' in California (and not even all of them were circulated). The market at large did not in fact know about this particular variant for years or start placing a huge premium on it until around 2006-2007. In 2005 a 9.6 copy could still be had for around $40. Since then the value has exploded, as people have learned of its existence. Sandman fans, completionists, variant hunters, etc. want the book, and with movie talk it only made the book more demanded. Even the normal issue of Sandman 8 has become nearly as valuable as Sandman 1, my theory being that there's a halo effect from the variant affecting the price of it.

 

Like I said, all anyone can do is speculate how many were actually circulated (it was not the full 600 run), how many were destroyed, how many were neglected and lost to time, etc. We do have two big clues though... the market, and the census. And the book is almost non-existent on one, and extraordinarily scarce on the other. Saying that maybe only 100 have survived is tripling the amount of copies that we see on the census now. I don't know about you, but I do not see 2 raw copies come up for sale, for every slabbed copy. And these do sell raw from time to time. The last raw copy sold for $1,000. Very few modern-ish books sell for that kind of money raw. How many more Sandman 1's have we seen hit the census since the book went from being $100, to $300-$400? I slabbed my OO copy last year. Didn't sell it. Never will. How many Sandman 4's do you think we will see hitting the census soon? There are plenty of raw copies available out there right now. Nobody had a reason to slab the book....until now maybe.

 

Do you seriously think that people "aren't" slabbing their $1000+ raw grail Sandman 8 editorial variants? A book that was potentially worth $200+ seven years ago? $500+ five years ago? $1000+ two years ago? $2000+ now? Just so they can screw around with it, handle it, and reminisce about what Karen Berger had to say on the inside front cover? I don't think so.

 

But as always, we will just have to agree to disagree on this my friend. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

I only slab a book that I want to sell.

Is this the majority opinion, why slab a book that you want as a permanent piece of your collection?

I didn't read the whole thread, but isn't Lucifer's first appearance in Jimmy Olsen 65?

 

 

edit: He's in the whole story, but here's were he's actually called Lucifer:

 

 

 

I guess it may come down to which version they are going after. Vertigo's, or the older version.

That little tricky devil.

LUCIFER Pilot Has Been Greenlit At Fox

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It looks like the latest in a (very) long line of TV shows based on DC characters will be Lucifer. It was previously reported that Fox had given the show a pilot commitment with Californication creator and executive producer Tom Kapinos heading up development, and now Bleeding Cool reckon they've been given the go ahead.

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LUCIFER Pilot Has Been Greenlit At Fox

 

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It looks like the latest in a (very) long line of TV shows based on DC characters will be Lucifer. It was previously reported that Fox had given the show a pilot commitment with Californication creator and executive producer Tom Kapinos heading up development, and now Bleeding Cool reckon they've been given the go ahead.

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Cool.

As long as they opt out of going the special effects route and focus more on a gothic/dark feel and lightly play up the ironic nature of the plot (think Breaking Bad humor) , it could be a good show.

What would suck balls is opting for a more mainstreamed approach with watering down another Vertigo character i.e.like NBC's Constantine with overacting and "cute" jokes.

I think the movie also has a lot of potential, it looks like Gaiman is being proactive with giving his casting nod the dude who played Loki in the Thor movies the role of Morpheus, whom I think is the better choice for the role than J.G.Levitt.

By the way, if anyone in the NY area is looking for Lucifer issues, I'll have raw NM copies, (got 50 or so scattered issues) in my $3 boxes at Carbo's show on March 7th.

If not, stop by my tables and introduce yourself anyway, it'd be cool to meet some of the boardies in person.

Len Wiseman Will Direct LUCIFER Pilot; Show Being Set Up As A Police Procedural

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The pilot will be directed by Len Wiseman (the Total Recall remake, Underworld, various other ), who will also executive produce along with Tom Kapinos, Jerry Bruckheimer and Jonathan Littman. The original logline for the show was pretty similar to the comic series, and had Lucifer growing tired with his infernal responsibilities and relocating to LA where he opened an exclusive piano bar called Lux. Now it seems it's "undergone an evolution toward a police procedural", with Deadline adding that the character will "gets his kicks helping the LAPD punish criminals."

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"undergone an evolution toward a police procedural"

"undergone an evolution toward a police procedural"

 

Yeah, I'm not sure where that is going.

"undergone an evolution toward a police procedural"

 

 

Yeah, I'm not sure where that is going.

straight to cancellation?

That... doesn't sound good.

:shrug:

-slym

You would think at some point these various creative types would realize that when a comic book property is adapted faithfully from the source material that it tends to do well and that when you kind of just take the name and the characters and then do your own thing, it doesn't turn out so well...

I don't think Fox has had a functioning police procedural that has lasted more than one season since New York Undercover over 16 years ago. This is going to be fast-tracked to dumpsville.

Lucifer has been cast.

ONCE UPON A TIME's Tom Ellis Will Play LUCIFER In The Fox Pilot

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TV Line report that Tom Ellis has landed the title role in Fox's Lucifer, which is based on the incarnation of the character first introduced in Neil Gaiman's Sandman. The Welsh actor is best known stateside for his role the first Robin Hood in TV's Once Upon A Time. The pilot will be directed by Len Wiseman (the Total Recall remake, Underworld), who will also executive produce along with Tom Kapinos, Jerry Bruckheimer and Jonathan Littman.

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LUCIFER Pilot Adds Lina Esco As 'Mazikeen'

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Deadline report that Cane actress Lina Esco has been cast alongside Tom Ellis in Fox's Lucifer, playing a character named Maze (almost certainly Mazikeen from the comics), who is described as "Lucifer’s best friend... a fierce demon in the form of a beautiful young woman." Esco has appeared in CSI and the Heroes webseries Heroes: Destiny, as well as co-writing, directing and starring in the independent film, Free The Nipple.

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