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FYI - Best Artists Ever... Ever
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261 posts in this topic

What I'm saying is, if your product isn't yours start to finish, you're not good at what you do.

lol The Beatles, Beastie Boys, Run-DMC, Stones...they're laughin' atcha!!

You saying they didn't play their own instruments and sing their own tunes?

 

I'm talking about someone who doesn't ink his own pencils.

 

Um George Martin had quite a bit to do with how the Beatles finished product sounded...

 

Just saying.

 

Did he play their instruments for them? What about when they went on tour?

 

Marvel editors have quite a bit of influence on a finished comic too, but unless they physically dipped a pen in ink and applied it to the bristol I'm not actually counting it. And I didn't bring the Beatles up, and have never claimed they were the "King" of music.

Sorry, maybe the Beatles thing was confusing. My point is, John Lennon and Paul McCartney had collaborators (each other) on much of their seminal work. Run and DMC had collaborators (each other) on much of their seminal work. I don't see how that means that they're not good at what they do. Or does your point only apply to comic artists?

 

Did you know that the word "seminal" comes from the same root word as "semen"...?

 

hm

 

 

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And by the way...

 

One of the greatest albums of all time - Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon...

 

Pretty sure that Alan Parson's (Yeah the guy that created the intro for every sports arena) had quite a bit to do with the album in post as the bands mixer.

 

Just saying.

Some people think Action #1 is the greatest comic of all time. I read it and think every single issue of Criminal is better. I mean, objectively, it's about as good as Grips was.
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What I'm saying is, if your product isn't yours start to finish, you're not good at what you do.

lol The Beatles, Beastie Boys, Run-DMC, Stones...they're laughin' atcha!!

You saying they didn't play their own instruments and sing their own tunes?

 

I'm talking about someone who doesn't ink his own pencils.

 

Um George Martin had quite a bit to do with how the Beatles finished product sounded...

 

Just saying.

 

Did he play their instruments for them? What about when they went on tour?

 

Marvel editors have quite a bit of influence on a finished comic too, but unless they physically dipped a pen in ink and applied it to the bristol I'm not actually counting it. And I didn't bring the Beatles up, and have never claimed they were the "King" of music.

Sorry, maybe the Beatles thing was confusing. My point is, John Lennon and Paul McCartney had collaborators (each other) on much of their seminal work. Run and DMC had collaborators (each other) on much of their seminal work. I don't see how that means that they're not good at what they do. Or does your point only apply to comic artists?

If one person could drum, guitar, and play bass then I'd feel differently. Also, not a fan of Run DMC.

Stevie Wonder and Prince sometimes played all instruments on their recordings. So did Paul McCartney, on his early solo stuff.

 

Wasn't there a Cure album that Robert Smith did the same thing and simply mixed it with someone? I know Moby basically made "Play" in his apartment with some instruments and a computer but invited a few guests to do some vocals on a couple of tracks.

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And by the way...

 

One of the greatest albums of all time - Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon...

 

Pretty sure that Alan Parson's (Yeah the guy that created the intro for every sports arena) had quite a bit to do with the album in post as the bands mixer.

 

Just saying.

Some people think Action #1 is the greatest comic of all time. I read it and think every single issue of Criminal is better. I mean, objectively, it's about as good as Grips was.

 

Take out the greatest part. Now address the point of the post instead of evading it.

 

 

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What I'm saying is, if your product isn't yours start to finish, you're not good at what you do.

lol The Beatles, Beastie Boys, Run-DMC, Stones...they're laughin' atcha!!

You saying they didn't play their own instruments and sing their own tunes?

 

I'm talking about someone who doesn't ink his own pencils.

 

Um George Martin had quite a bit to do with how the Beatles finished product sounded...

 

Just saying.

 

Did he play their instruments for them? What about when they went on tour?

 

Marvel editors have quite a bit of influence on a finished comic too, but unless they physically dipped a pen in ink and applied it to the bristol I'm not actually counting it. And I didn't bring the Beatles up, and have never claimed they were the "King" of music.

Sorry, maybe the Beatles thing was confusing. My point is, John Lennon and Paul McCartney had collaborators (each other) on much of their seminal work. Run and DMC had collaborators (each other) on much of their seminal work. I don't see how that means that they're not good at what they do. Or does your point only apply to comic artists?

 

Did you know that the word "seminal" comes from the same root word as"semen"...?

 

hm

 

Yes, and "root" :blush:

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And by the way...

 

One of the greatest albums of all time - Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon...

 

Pretty sure that Alan Parson's (Yeah the guy that created the intro for every sports arena) had quite a bit to do with the album in post as the bands mixer.

 

Just saying.

Some people think Action #1 is the greatest comic of all time. I read it and think every single issue of Criminal is better. I mean, objectively, it's about as good as Grips was.

 

Take out the greatest part. Now address the point of the post instead of evading it.

 

Okay. It's not even a good comic. What was the point? That different people will say different albums were the "best" albums ever?

 

Or that Kirby wasn't that great an illustrator?

 

I mean, he wasn't bad. Not 90's bad. He did his job. But Crumb is better.

Edited by dupont2005
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If pencilers are no good that means steranko kirby swan buscema romita starlin perez etc-no good.
Not as good as Jaime and gilbert. Not as good as Corben.

 

We're calling Kirby a king and a god, placing him at the top of the list of illustration.

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Even though everyone of those artists could and did effectively ink their work just because they had inkers their talent is nullified? If Kirby had to ink all his own stuff there would be 70% less Kirby stuff

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And by the way...

 

One of the greatest albums of all time - Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon...

 

Pretty sure that Alan Parson's (Yeah the guy that created the intro for every sports arena) had quite a bit to do with the album in post as the bands mixer.

 

Just saying.

Some people think Action #1 is the greatest comic of all time. I read it and think every single issue of Criminal is better. I mean, objectively, it's about as good as Grips was.

 

Take out the greatest part. Now address the point of the post instead of evading it.

 

Okay. It's not even a good comic. What was the point? That different people will say different albums were the "best" albums ever?

 

Or that Kirby wasn't that great an illustrator?

 

I mean, he wasn't bad. Not 90's bad. He did his job. But Crumb is better.

 

My post had nothing to do with AC1

 

I mentioned that Pink Floyd, a band that falls into your criteria of artists who write their own songs and play their own instruments, still use someone outside of the band to get that distinctive sound. I mentioned Floyd in the case of Dark Side of the Moon. Alan Parson's the recording engineer / mixer had a lot to do with that album in post.

 

The Beatles had their George Martin.

 

The Beastie Boys had their Rick Rubin.

 

 

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To get off the typical CG music thread disruption and back on track of the actual subject, I shall repeat:

 

I could not stand going through so many pages so am just gonna ad a few of mine:

 

Gene Colan

Dick Ayers

Matt Baker

Alex Schomburg

Xela (also Schomburg above)

Reed Crandall

Jack Davis

Will Elder

Graham Ingels

Jack Kamen

Al Williamson

Edmond Good

Wally Wood

Johnny Craig

Joe Maneely

Bernie Krigstein

Bill Everett

Mike Sekowsky

Carl Burgos

Will Eisner

 

I could go on and on.

 

Then again it is quite possible many in this thread have no idea who these folk are?

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Eisner was too stiff and cartoony for my tastes.

 

Certainly the evidence would tend to support your thesis. :baiting:

 

Spirit02_zps816c211f.jpg

 

Spirit03_zpsaca4ccd1.jpg

 

Far too stiff and cartoony. No real sense of design or storytelling. :shy:

 

Eisner06_zps8d0ec22d.jpg

 

Spirit04_zps8673549c.jpg

 

 

 

 

Eisner just didn't work hard enough. Far too laid back. :cool:

 

WillEisner_zps38ff9e9f.jpg

 

Definitely not one of the masters. :sumo:

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While the execution looks fluid the actual technique has a stiffness that I can perceive. I'm very sensitive to stiff drawing because that's my weakness and i hate it. If you look at say Sean Phillips or Curt Swan even there is never a hint of this stiffness.

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To get off the typical CG music thread disruption and back on track of the actual subject, I shall repeat:

 

I could not stand going through so many pages so am just gonna ad a few of mine:

 

Gene Colan

Dick Ayers

Matt Baker

Alex Schomburg

Xela (also Schomburg above)

Reed Crandall

Jack Davis

Will Elder

Graham Ingels

Jack Kamen

Al Williamson

Edmond Good

Wally Wood

Johnny Craig

Joe Maneely

Bernie Krigstein

Bill Everett

Mike Sekowsky

Carl Burgos

Will Eisner

 

I could go on and on.

 

Then again it is quite possible many in this thread have no idea who these folk are?

 

If this thread is still about the best artists ever, there are several names on the above list that do not belong, under any definition of 'best':

 

Burgos, Sekowsky, Good, Elder, Davis, Ayers should be removed.

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Even though everyone of those artists could and did effectively ink their work just because they had inkers their talent is nullified? If Kirby had to ink all his own stuff there would be 70% less Kirby stuff

 

Exactly. How many books per month was he doing for Marvel. It's amazing that he could crank out what he did, even if it was pencils only.

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Even though everyone of those artists could and did effectively ink their work just because they had inkers their talent is nullified? If Kirby had to ink all his own stuff there would be 70% less Kirby stuff
Quantity and quality are almost always mutually exclusive.
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