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Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87
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1,571 posts in this topic

It's not even a cameo!

 

Three turtles related books on the list is overkill. And even raw copies of nm 98, asm 300 and ba 12 sell for more than a couple hundred dollars each. They are far more influential books than almost anything else on that list as well. This CA list does seem a bit of a throwaway list to Overstreet.

 

-J.

 

Yep. The BA #12 sells for >$200 in 7.0-8.0 raw. Not sure how that's left out in 9.2, unless they consider that a modern vs copper age.

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Why don't you go buy an OSPG? I'm sure a brilliant guy like you can afford one. Next time your in a book store, pick it up with a copy of Wittgenstein's Tractitus. Or is that easy reading for a guy that's asking about Occam's Razor?

 

Mainly because I don't need one, just to check a couple of pieces of information that you could easily post here.

 

And, I know this is a niggling thing, but it's "you're."

 

Sorry, was that showing off...?

 

;)

Oh,classic.

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I have a question. Having owned multiple Cerebi #1s over the years, all were copies in circulation, and none of them were over VF/VF+. If that high. Then Sim releases his Gaines copies, and the census has lots of higher graded copies.

 

But, does anyone know what the highest graded NON-sim file copy is graded at? Thanx.

 

And, carry on!

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I have a question. Having owned multiple Cerebi #1s over the years, all were copies in circulation, and none of them were over VF/VF+. If that high. Then Sim releases his Gaines copies, and the census has lots of higher graded copies.

 

But, does anyone know what the highest graded NON-sim file copy is graded at? Thanx.

 

And, carry on!

 

Yes.

 

9.4.

 

And yes, Cerebus #1 is extremely rare in high grade. EXTREMELY rare.

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It's not even a cameo!

 

I'll do you one better, its not even a published comic book!

 

(There is no price listed on the cover because, well, they weren't sold).

 

Still, the teeny print (err.. photocopy) run makes up somewhat for its other sins. Not a book I want to pay thousands for but if you're a eastman/laird fan its a cool (unpublished) book.

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Wow... I've read this whole thing.

 

Must be a really boring day at work.

 

This is what I think:

 

To me, you have to equate the Cerebus 9.4 with the Hulk 9.9, as they are both the best copy of both issues. If a Cerebus 9.6 ever appeared, you would then compare that copy with the Hulk 9.9.

 

It's just like the Action #1 9.0 that just sold. When the Mile High copy comes on the market and is likely graded higher, I suspect the value of the 9.0s will stagnate or possibly drop (only slightly).

 

I would much rather have the Cerebus than the Hulk, but I think that many more people would rather have it the other way around.

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Wow... I've read this whole thing.

 

Must be a really boring day at work.

 

This is what I think:

 

To me, you have to equate the Cerebus 9.4 with the Hulk 9.9, as they are both the best copy of both issues. If a Cerebus 9.6 ever appeared, you would then compare that copy with the Hulk 9.9.

 

It's just like the Action #1 9.0 that just sold. When the Mile High copy comes on the market and is likely graded higher, I suspect the value of the 9.0s will stagnate or possibly drop (only slightly).

 

I would much rather have the Cerebus than the Hulk, but I think that many more people would rather have it the other way around.

 

That sound you just heard was Pandora's box re-opening.

 

Release the hounds RMA! :ohnoez:

 

-J.

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To me, you have to equate the Cerebus 9.4 with the Hulk 9.9, as they are both the best copy of both issues. If a Cerebus 9.6 ever appeared, you would then compare that copy with the Hulk 9.9.

 

It doesn't work that way. That isn't how the market reacts to 9.9s and 10s. This just isn't how 9.9s and 10s work.

 

It also isn't how the market reacts to the "highest graded" when you compare very rare books (like Cerebus #1 and Action #1) to very, very common books (like Hulk #181.)

 

The Hulk #181 9.9 is only worth what it is because it is in a case that says "9.9" on the label. Remove it from that case, and it automatically loses more than 95% of its "value."

 

Reslab it, and it will come back the 9.8 it is now, the 9.9 having vanished into the ether with time.

 

Remove the 9.4 Cerebus #1 from its case, and it loses value...but only about 50% (or less) especially if people know that it is the 9.4 copy. Reslab it, and you might even pull a 9.6 (or a 9.2, however tightly/loosely the book was originally graded.)

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Wow... I've read this whole thing.

 

Must be a really boring day at work.

 

This is what I think:

 

To me, you have to equate the Cerebus 9.4 with the Hulk 9.9, as they are both the best copy of both issues. If a Cerebus 9.6 ever appeared, you would then compare that copy with the Hulk 9.9.

 

It's just like the Action #1 9.0 that just sold. When the Mile High copy comes on the market and is likely graded higher, I suspect the value of the 9.0s will stagnate or possibly drop (only slightly).

 

I would much rather have the Cerebus than the Hulk, but I think that many more people would rather have it the other way around.

 

That sound you just heard was Pandora's box re-opening.

 

Release the hounds RMA! :ohnoez:

 

-J.

 

Release the popcorn!

 

:popcorn:

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To me, you have to equate the Cerebus 9.4 with the Hulk 9.9, as they are both the best copy of both issues. If a Cerebus 9.6 ever appeared, you would then compare that copy with the Hulk 9.9.

 

It doesn't work that way. That isn't how the market reacts to 9.9s and 10s. This just isn't how 9.9s and 10s work.

 

It also isn't how the market reacts to the "highest graded" when you compare very rare books (like Cerebus #1 and Action #1) to very, very common books (like Hulk #181.)

 

The Hulk #181 9.9 is only worth what it is because it is in a case that says "9.9" on the label. Remove it from that case, and it automatically loses more than 95% of its "value."

 

Reslab it, and it will come back the 9.8 it is now, the 9.9 having vanished into the ether with time.

 

Remove the 9.4 Cerebus #1 from its case, and it loses value...but only about 50% (or less) especially if people know that it is the 9.4 copy. Reslab it, and you might even pull a 9.6 (or a 9.2, however tightly/loosely the book was originally graded.)

 

All these things you're saying go for every single comic, and are not in the least bit specific to this situation. Of course a comic's grade intrinsically related to the grade assigned. And that value is diminished greatly if the comic is cracked or if it's re-graded lower.

 

Any 9.9 -- whether it be this month's Captain America or that Hulk -- would lose a ridiculous amount of value in that situation. As the grade gets lower, the lost value (as a percentage) also gets smaller. A 9.9 "worth" $1,000 may be worth $500 cracked (a loss of 50%). A 5.5 "worth" $1,000 may be worth $800 cracked (a loss of 20%).

 

But the value of the specific 9.4 that is used as a discussion here is less about the number grade but that it's the highest graded copy of Cerebus #1. Same goes for the Hulk.

 

Action #1 is worth more than Detective #27 in the same grade. But if the highest graded Action is a 9.0 and the highest graded Detective is a 9.2, I suspect the Detective would sell for a higher amount.

 

 

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To me, you have to equate the Cerebus 9.4 with the Hulk 9.9, as they are both the best copy of both issues. If a Cerebus 9.6 ever appeared, you would then compare that copy with the Hulk 9.9.

 

It doesn't work that way. That isn't how the market reacts to 9.9s and 10s. This just isn't how 9.9s and 10s work.

 

It also isn't how the market reacts to the "highest graded" when you compare very rare books (like Cerebus #1 and Action #1) to very, very common books (like Hulk #181.)

 

The Hulk #181 9.9 is only worth what it is because it is in a case that says "9.9" on the label. Remove it from that case, and it automatically loses more than 95% of its "value."

 

Reslab it, and it will come back the 9.8 it is now, the 9.9 having vanished into the ether with time.

 

Remove the 9.4 Cerebus #1 from its case, and it loses value...but only about 50% (or less) especially if people know that it is the 9.4 copy. Reslab it, and you might even pull a 9.6 (or a 9.2, however tightly/loosely the book was originally graded.)

 

All these things you're saying go for every single comic, and are not in the least bit specific to this situation. Of course a comic's grade intrinsically related to the grade assigned. And that value is diminished greatly if the comic is cracked or if it's re-graded lower.

 

You're not fully appreciating what I've said.

 

The value of a 9.4 book is in the book. Whether it is slabbed or not, the book has value. The slab only confirms what the market will value it at. The value of the book is not directly tied into the number on the label.

 

If Flying Donut (and I'm pretty sure I can say this without question) looks at a Cerebus #1, and thinks it has a fair shot at 9.4...especially if he knows it was already a 9.4 in a slab at one point...he will pay the "going rate" for a 9.4 by a dealer. I don't think $5,000 would be out of the question for a dealer.

 

There is no dealer on the planet...none...that would pay whatever amount a 9.9 Hulk #181 would be worth to a dealer if the book was no longer in the 9.9 slab. You would have a very, VERY difficult time getting someone to pay the 9.8 price for it.

 

That's because 9.9s and 10s operate completely differently than the rest of the market.

 

The value difference between a 9.8 and a 9.9 is entirely, completely, and totally in the number on the label. It has absolutely nothing to do with the book inside the case (that does not mean the book itself is meaningless! It means the value difference between a 9.8 and 9.9 of that book is entirely independent of the actual physical example inside the case.)

 

So, no, you can't compare "highest graded", especially of ultra common books, to "highest graded" of very rare books, and have any meaningful comparison.

 

Any 9.9 -- whether it be this month's Captain America or that Hulk -- would lose a ridiculous amount of value in that situation. As the grade gets lower, the lost value (as a percentage) also gets smaller. A 9.9 "worth" $1,000 may be worth $500 cracked (a loss of 50%).

 

I think I can safely say that there's not a single comic book that exists that is worth $1,000 in 9.9 that would only lose 50% of its value. In fact, I think I can safely say that there's not a single comic book that exists that would be worth $100 if it was cracked out of a $1,000 9.9 slab.

 

I would be willing to place substantial money on that bet, sure as I am.

 

But the value of the specific 9.4 that is used as a discussion here is less about the number grade but that it's the highest graded copy of Cerebus #1. Same goes for the Hulk.

 

The value of the Cerebus #1 9.4 does, indeed, partly pertain to it being "highest graded." But it is in a completely different universe from a 9.9 Hulk #181. They aren't comparable as "highest graded."

 

Action #1 is worth more than Detective #27 in the same grade. But if the highest graded Action is a 9.0 and the highest graded Detective is a 9.2, I suspect the Detective would sell for a higher amount.

 

 

No doubt. But then, you are comparing very rare to very rare, and reasonable grades to reasonable grades.

 

They are comparable examples.

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Then let's look at the Hulk #181 9.9 as an anomaly (which it is). There are 50 copies graded at 9.8. That's a decent (and comparable) percentage of copies graded at that high number to the 9.4s graded for the Cerebus #1.

 

You could also assume that a 9.8 cracked and re-submitted has a much higher chance of retaining that grade.

 

The value of the Hulk 181 in 9.8 is significantly higher than the Cerebus in 9.4. A dealer would pay significantly more for that book raw than would pay for an ungraded Cerebus that would likely hit its highest grade.

 

At the arbitrary grade of 9.2, Cerebus #1 is more valuable than Hulk #181.

 

But if you look at nearly every other grade, the Hulk #181 trumps it (and it's not even close).

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At the arbitrary grade of 9.2, Cerebus #1 is more valuable than Hulk #181.

 

But if you look at nearly every other grade, the Hulk #181 trumps it (and it's not even close).

 

Correct & since Overstreet's list is based on that grade, Cerebus ranks higher on their list.

 

The inconsistency when comparing the value of books grade-by-grade is due to the premium prices paid for the highest graded examples of specific books that are rare in high grade.

 

(shrug)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Then let's look at the Hulk #181 9.9 as an anomaly (which it is). There are 50 copies graded at 9.8. That's a decent (and comparable) percentage of copies graded at that high number to the 9.4s graded for the Cerebus #1.

 

You could also assume that a 9.8 cracked and re-submitted has a much higher chance of retaining that grade.

 

The value of the Hulk 181 in 9.8 is significantly higher than the Cerebus in 9.4. A dealer would pay significantly more for that book raw than would pay for an ungraded Cerebus that would likely hit its highest grade.

 

At the arbitrary grade of 9.2, Cerebus #1 is more valuable than Hulk #181.

 

But if you look at nearly every other grade, the Hulk #181 trumps it (and it's not even close).

 

Comparing a 9.8 Hulk #181 to a Cerebus #1 in 9.4 is a much better comparison, but it still falls short, because a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would be a complete and total monster. It would blow away the price for any Hulk #181 9.8, ever. It would easily be a $30-$40k book.

 

What dealer in his right mind is going to turn down a flawless Cerebus #1...if one even still exists....in favor of a flawless Hulk #181? None of them. I completely disagree with your contention that any dealer would pay more for a Hulk #181 than a Cerebus #1, raw. They would be utterly foolish to do so. They would be utterly foolish to do it for a 9.6 potential Cerebus #1, vs. a 9.8 potential Hulk #181. They might even be utterly foolish to do so for a 9.4 potential Cerebus #1. There are dealers who would pay $5,000 for a solid "9.4 or possibly better" Cerebus #1. I don't know ANYONE who would pay that for a 9.8 potential Hulk #181, unless it was a slam dunk, all day long 9.8...because if it comes back 9.6, they've just lost hundreds, if not a thousand, dollars.

 

The facts are what they are: by Overstreet, Cerebus #1 is a more valuable book in 9.2, because that's as high as it goes. In reality, it trumps Hulk #181 in every grade from 9.2 on up, except for the freak grade of 9.9 (and that's a one-off total anomaly.)

 

A lot of you really underestimate the demand for and rarity of Cerebus #1 in high grades.

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Then let's look at the Hulk #181 9.9 as an anomaly (which it is). There are 50 copies graded at 9.8. That's a decent (and comparable) percentage of copies graded at that high number to the 9.4s graded for the Cerebus #1.

 

You could also assume that a 9.8 cracked and re-submitted has a much higher chance of retaining that grade.

 

The value of the Hulk 181 in 9.8 is significantly higher than the Cerebus in 9.4. A dealer would pay significantly more for that book raw than would pay for an ungraded Cerebus that would likely hit its highest grade.

 

At the arbitrary grade of 9.2, Cerebus #1 is more valuable than Hulk #181.

 

But if you look at nearly every other grade, the Hulk #181 trumps it (and it's not even close).

 

Comparing a 9.8 Hulk #181 to a Cerebus #1 in 9.4 is a much better comparison, but it still falls short, because a Cerebus #1 in 9.8 would be a complete and total monster. It would blow away the price for any Hulk #181 9.8, ever. It would easily be a $30-$40k book.

 

What dealer in his right mind is going to turn down a flawless Cerebus #1...if one even still exists....in favor of a flawless Hulk #181? None of them. I completely disagree with your contention that any dealer would pay more for a Hulk #181 than a Cerebus #1, raw. They would be utterly foolish to do so. They would be utterly foolish to do it for a 9.6 potential Cerebus #1, vs. a 9.8 potential Hulk #181. They might even be utterly foolish to do so for a 9.4 potential Cerebus #1. There are dealers who would pay $5,000 for a solid "9.4 or possibly better" Cerebus #1. I don't know ANYONE who would pay that for a 9.8 potential, unless it was a slam dunk, all day long 9.8...because if it comes back 9.6, they've just lost hundreds, if not a thousand, dollars.

 

The facts are what they are: by Overstreet, Cerebus #1 is a more valuable book in 9.2, because that's as high as it goes. In reality, it trumps Hulk #181 in every grade from 9.2 on up, except for the freak grade of 9.9 (and that's a one-off total anomaly.)

 

A lot of you really underestimate the demand for and rarity of Cerebus #1 in high grades.

 

Outside of the bubble that is Overstreet's 2013 numbers , I don't believe a cerebus 1, 9.2 has a higher FMW than a Hulk 181, 9.2.

 

-J.

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