Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87

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This doesn't have anything to do with how many copies of a book exist...seriously confounding value with supply and demand has gotten so tired in here.

Cerebus 1 is certainly more valuable than it would be if there had been 1 million copies. Hulk 181 with lots of copies is somewhere around the same value even though it is more plentiful. This is subjective, but Hulk 181 is probably more important. Cerebus 1 is also very important and I won't knock it.

If there were 2000 copies of Spawn 1, can you imagine the price it would go for?

Cerebus 1 is valuable, so is Hulk 181 and so are price variants!

I think we are going in circles...

I cannot imagine you disagree that Hulk181 is the more important book. And I'm sure you agree the demand is higher in all grades.

Saying that demand differs at different grades does not makes much sense. What differs with grades is the supply.

Howevery because demand can be satisfied faster the price does not get up as high on the demand curve.

TL:DR

(Just kidding, I read all 23+ pages)

Cerebus # 1in the higher grades is indisputably more valuable than IH # 181

IH # 181 is arguably more important

These are two totally separate things, but this thread deals with value - particularly comparative value at 9.2. And Cerebus wins. Hands down. We done yet?

Ardvarks are good eating. That aside, I'm much rather have a Hulk 181. Had a beautiful copy back in the day 30 years ago. Would love to own another copy again some day.

Here's another way to look at it, so maybe you can understand.

 

ITEM A - 100% Popularity.

 

500 copies available - 500 people looking for it.

 

ITEM B - 50% Popularity.

 

10 copies available - 50 people looking for it.

 

Which is more Popular?

Which is more Valuable (Goes for the highest price)

 

Take the nostalgia out of it and it's pretty easy equation.

 

In HIGHER GRADE, the DEMAND for the limited number of ITEM B, appears to will make it a more valuable book than ITEM A.

 

Fixed that for you.

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

Hulk 181

or

Cerebus 1

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

Here's another way to look at it, so maybe you can understand.

 

ITEM A - 100% Popularity.

 

500 copies available - 500 people looking for it.

 

ITEM B - 50% Popularity.

 

10 copies available - 50 people looking for it.

 

Which is more Popular?

Which is more Valuable (Goes for the highest price)

 

Take the nostalgia out of it and it's pretty easy equation.

 

In HIGHER GRADE, the DEMAND for the limited number of ITEM B, appears to will make it a more valuable book than ITEM A.

 

 

Fixed that for you.

It's like I always say, if you want to know the real value of a comic, ask a long time quality comic book dealer. Real World Economics vs Theoretical Economics.

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

Once again you're changing the parameters of the discussion.

OSPG isn't there to tell you what you should buy for your once in a lifetime comic.

It's there to gauge value.

It's there for the person who buys and sells comics.

Does every collector have one? No.

Does every comic shop that carries older comics? I would guess near 100% of them.

Why?

To gauge the value of a book to sell.

In HIGHER GRADE, the DEMAND for the limited number of ITEM B, appears to will make it a more valuable book than ITEM A.

Ardvarks are good eating. That aside, I'm much rather have a Hulk 181. Had a beautiful copy back in the day 30 years ago. Would love to own another copy again some day.

The majority of people would. Once again, that's not what's being debated.

Yes, logic is king. By the way, noone is saying that Cerebus is worthless.

 

That's good, because that would be contrary to established facts.

 

It has some meaning and more than many other books. However, the high price is mostly due to the low supply.

 

Says who?

 

How do you know that the high price is "mostly" due to the low supply? How do you determine which percentage of the sales price is due to demand, and which is due to the supply? Isn't it supply AND demand?

 

Because it is nearly impossible to determine how demand affects the final price of any item.

 

There are many, many books that are much, much rarer than Cerebus #1, and yet, they don't command the same prices. Why is that?

 

There are fewer Maxx #2 and #3 ashcans than Cerebus #1s....and yet, they're worth far, far less than it is. How is that so, since the supply is much lower?

 

There are only 100 copies each of the Vampirella Royal Blues, and yet, it's difficult to get $30 for most of them.

 

Let try to see if an example brings it home for you:

 

If 1.000.000 people think book A has the most important character while 5 people think book B has the most important character.

 

Then which book objectively has the most important character?

 

It is incorrect to use the word "objective" in conjunction with adjectives like "most important", "more desirable", "better", "best", etc, as those words are, by definition, used to make subjective value judgments.

 

Popularity does not determine truth. If 7 billion people believed that Howard the Duck was the most important character in comics, would that make it true?

 

Or would it rather be actual objective factors like sales figures, longevity, cross-media exposure and the like which determines importance?

 

That said, however, the issue is not, and never has been, which character is more important. No one, in the entire course of this discussion, has disputed the fact that Wolverine is a far, far more important character than Cerebus.

 

So, the example is moot.

 

Let's face facts, folks: you guys resent the fact that Cerebus #1 is more valuable than Hulk #181 in the highest grades. Admit it, and stop trying to defend it already.

 

---

 

Good...

 

Now, let's add this information:

 

There are printed 2.000.000 copies of book A.

 

There are printed 2 copies of book B.

 

Which book might fetch the highest price?

 

It might very well be book B - simply because there is not enough supply to satisfy demand. Market Theory 101.

 

You've apparently not heard of the fact that extreme rarity can actually hinder popularity, and thus the price, of an item. If an item is essentially unobtainable, it will be dismissed and ignored, because no one can actively collect it.

 

The 1804 dollar, with 15 examples floating around, is worth more than an 1870-S half dime, with only 1. You can own an 1804 dollar, if you have enough money. You cannot own an 1870-S half dime, for any price, until the owner decides to sell it.

 

However, as was demonstrated, that does NOT mean that book B is the more important book. Logic.

 

That's correct. We are all in agreement, and have never not been in agreement that Hulk #181 is a more important book to the comics hobby than Cerebus #1.

 

What you're not understanding is that this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with which character or book is more important.

 

But I thank you for your response.

 

Probably you only read some of the posts. Several people discussed which book was a major key or not.

 

Key status is determined by importance. . Not value. So obviously we began also discussing importance at some point in the thread.

 

Which book is currently more valuable makes little sense to discuss. We can look at the GPA and it shows that whenever there are far far fewer copies of cerebus it is the more valuable book. That is nothing to really discuss.

 

So the point stands. Cerebus is more valuable in most grades. But solely because it is far more scarce and despite being a less important book.

 

Actually Alexander as of now cerebus is only more "valuable" than hulk 181 in exactly ONE grade.....A 9.4. So essentially the pro-cerebus argument at this point is that those 3 highest graded cerebus 1's that have sold three times in ten years for up to 10k, warrant the book being ranked higher on overstreet's list. The fact that hulk 181 blows it out of the water in literally every single other grade, even though there are 50 times more copies of it out there apparently counts for nothing.

The pro-cerebus folks don't care to acknowledge the great likelihood that those three 9.4 cerebus 1's, when available, get bid up by fans who are chasing "single highest graded" books as trophy pieces for their collection. Kind of like that 9.6 GL 76. Or even the 9.9 ASM 194 that went for 5k, I believe on heritage recently. A 9.8 of the same ASM 194 drops all the way down to about $850. Methinks a similar phenomenon would explain why cerebus 1 is such a non factor in every single grade that isn't the single highest grade....

So let's talk about those "single highest graded" book collectors. What were they willing to pay for that in a hulk 181. $150k is what they were willing to pay. Sorry folks, it is an apt comparison. For whatever reason, cerebus 1 is not available past a 9.4. For cerebus a 9.4 is the "single highest grade". For hulk 181 it is a 9.9. Hulk 181 had a boatload more chances to yield a 9.9 because it has a far, far greater print run than cerebus. And what does hulk 181 go for in the second highest grade ? A 9.8 just went for about 12k if I'm not mistaken. Let's please not try to have our cake and eat it too by hyping up how "rare" and "important" cerebus 1 is to justify what it sells for, and then whine about how there's no sales data and point to mysterious, off the books sales that only overstreet knows about to explain your position. And then simultaneously knock hulk 181 for being so plentiful and then disregard its top sales in its respective top grades because they are not literally "the identical" grade as cerebus' top grade (being only a 9.4). If you really think cerebus 1 is worthy of swimming in hulk 181's waters, then let it, and let's see what happens.....

So in an apples to apples comparison we have a cerebus 1 in the single highest grade get bid up to 9k recently. For hulk 181 the single highest grade gets bid up to 150k, four years ago, long after the book crashed and long before its recent and powerful resurgence.

Then for the second highest grade (of which there are also only 3 copies) we have a cerebus 1 maaaaaaaybe go for 3k. But more likely 2500-2800, and all three of those are SS file copies. For hulk 181 the second highest grade (for which there are 79 copies) is 11-12k.

After that cerebus 1 drops like a rock in "value" while hulk 181 slowly tapers down, maintaining a four digit selling price all the way down to a 7.0, and raw, tattered rags with no MVS selling for close to 400, which is about what a VF raw copy of cerebus 1 last went for on ebay.

So which comic really is more "valuable"? If you look only at the three highest graded 9.4 examples of cerebus 1 that have sold in 10 years versus the 350 copies of a 9.4 hulk 181 (a multiple of over 100x), then cerebus 1 is. But of course that would be downright silly if you were to do that. Wouldn't it be, overstreet?

Because if you compare the single highest graded copy of hulk 181 to the single highest graded for cerebus 1.....hulk wins. By a lot.

If you compare sales of the second highest graded copies to each other .... hulk wins. By a lot.

If you compare each book grade for grade (other than the single highest for each book)....hulk wins..... in every single grade, and by an ever expanding percentage as you go further down the grading scale.

To sum it up....hulk 181 wins.

The last remaining crux of RMA (and a couple others) pro-cerebus 1 argument is a literalist's approach: "three highest graded 9.4 copies of cerebus 1 have sold for more than any one of the 350 copies of 9.4 hulk 181's have sold for, so overstreet got it right." They won't acknowledge the possibility of price dilution for hulk 181 in grade, even as they trumpet the stratospheric sales price of the ONE copy of the single highest graded 9.4 copy of cerebus 1 that just sold (for over 1000 LESS than it did five years ago), and salivate over what ONE 9.8 copy of a cerebus 1 might go for if it ever came to market. (On a side note, if that ever did happen, I wonder what that would do to the value of your 9.4's.... )

No, overstreet got it wrong. Very wrong. Because in the real world hulk 181 is the undisputed king of the BA, value-wise, importance to the hobby-wise, historical-wise, and every single other "wise" you can think of. When hulk 181 tanked it literally took the entire Bronze Age with it.

Cerebus 1 meanwhile is a foot note. A novelty. A curiosity. If the book suddenly tanked in value over night it wouldn't even cause a ripple in the market. Does that mean the book is a piece of junk and has no value ? Obviously not. Clearly it has its fans, devotees, and passionate collectors. And that is never a bad thing for the hobby. Just let's not lose sight of the big picture and common sense. The OP originally began this thread questioning the book's place on overstreet's top BA list ahead of hulk 181. For all the reasons cited above, his point is well taken. Thanks for reading.

-J.

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

Yes, logic is king. By the way, noone is saying that Cerebus is worthless.

 

That's good, because that would be contrary to established facts.

 

It has some meaning and more than many other books. However, the high price is mostly due to the low supply.

 

Says who?

 

How do you know that the high price is "mostly" due to the low supply? How do you determine which percentage of the sales price is due to demand, and which is due to the supply? Isn't it supply AND demand?

 

Because it is nearly impossible to determine how demand affects the final price of any item.

 

There are many, many books that are much, much rarer than Cerebus #1, and yet, they don't command the same prices. Why is that?

 

There are fewer Maxx #2 and #3 ashcans than Cerebus #1s....and yet, they're worth far, far less than it is. How is that so, since the supply is much lower?

 

There are only 100 copies each of the Vampirella Royal Blues, and yet, it's difficult to get $30 for most of them.

 

Let try to see if an example brings it home for you:

 

If 1.000.000 people think book A has the most important character while 5 people think book B has the most important character.

 

Then which book objectively has the most important character?

 

It is incorrect to use the word "objective" in conjunction with adjectives like "most important", "more desirable", "better", "best", etc, as those words are, by definition, used to make subjective value judgments.

 

Popularity does not determine truth. If 7 billion people believed that Howard the Duck was the most important character in comics, would that make it true?

 

Or would it rather be actual objective factors like sales figures, longevity, cross-media exposure and the like which determines importance?

 

That said, however, the issue is not, and never has been, which character is more important. No one, in the entire course of this discussion, has disputed the fact that Wolverine is a far, far more important character than Cerebus.

 

So, the example is moot.

 

Let's face facts, folks: you guys resent the fact that Cerebus #1 is more valuable than Hulk #181 in the highest grades. Admit it, and stop trying to defend it already.

 

---

 

Good...

 

Now, let's add this information:

 

There are printed 2.000.000 copies of book A.

 

There are printed 2 copies of book B.

 

Which book might fetch the highest price?

 

It might very well be book B - simply because there is not enough supply to satisfy demand. Market Theory 101.

 

You've apparently not heard of the fact that extreme rarity can actually hinder popularity, and thus the price, of an item. If an item is essentially unobtainable, it will be dismissed and ignored, because no one can actively collect it.

 

The 1804 dollar, with 15 examples floating around, is worth more than an 1870-S half dime, with only 1. You can own an 1804 dollar, if you have enough money. You cannot own an 1870-S half dime, for any price, until the owner decides to sell it.

 

However, as was demonstrated, that does NOT mean that book B is the more important book. Logic.

 

That's correct. We are all in agreement, and have never not been in agreement that Hulk #181 is a more important book to the comics hobby than Cerebus #1.

 

What you're not understanding is that this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with which character or book is more important.

 

But I thank you for your response.

 

Probably you only read some of the posts. Several people discussed which book was a major key or not.

 

Key status is determined by importance. . Not value. So obviously we began also discussing importance at some point in the thread.

 

Which book is currently more valuable makes little sense to discuss. We can look at the GPA and it shows that whenever there are far far fewer copies of cerebus it is the more valuable book. That is nothing to really discuss.

 

So the point stands. Cerebus is more valuable in most grades. But solely because it is far more scarce and despite being a less important book.

 

 

Actually Alexander as of now cerebus is only more "valuable" than hulk 181 in exactly ONE grade.....A 9.4. So essentially the pro-cerebus argument at this point is that those 3 highest graded cerebus 1's that have sold three times in ten years for up to 10k, warrant the book being ranked higher on overstreet's list. The fact that hulk 181 blows it out of the water in literally every single other grade, even though there are 50 times more copies of it out there apparently counts for nothing.

 

The pro-cerebus folks don't care to acknowledge the great likelihood that those three 9.4 cerebus 1's, when available, get bid up by fans who are chasing "single highest graded" books as trophy pieces for their collection. Kind of like that 9.6 GL 76. Or even the ASM 194 that went for 5k, I believe on heritage recently. A 9.8 of the same ASM 194 drops all the way down to about $850. Methinks a similar phenomenon would explain why cerebus 1 is such a non factor in every single grade that isn't the single highest grade....

 

So let's talk about those "single highest graded" book collectors. What were they willing to pay for that in a hulk 181. $150k is what they were willing to pay. Sorry folks, it is an apt comparison. For whatever reason, cerebus 1 is not available past a 9.4. For cerebus a 9.4 is the "single highest grade". For hulk 181 it is a 9.9. Hulk 181 had a boatload more chances to yield a 9.9 because it has a far, far greater print run than cerebus. And what does hulk 181 go for in the second highest grade ? A 9.8 just went for about 12k if I'm not mistaken. Let's please not try to have our cake and eat it too by hyping up how "rare" and "important" cerebus 1 is to justify what it sells for, and then whine about how there's no sales data and point to mysterious, off the books sales that only overstreet knows about to explain your position. And then simultaneously knock hulk 181 for being so plentiful and then disregard its top sales in its respective top grades because they are not literally "the identical" grade as cerebus' top grade (being only a 9.4). If you really think cerebus 1 is worthy of swimming in hulk 181's waters, then let it, and let's see what happens.....

 

So in an apples to apples comparison we have a cerebus 1 in the single highest grade get bid up to 9k recently. For hulk 181 the single highest grade gets bid up to 150k, four years ago, long after the book crashed and long before its recent and powerful resurgence.

 

Then for the second highest grade (of which there are also only 3 copies) we have a cerebus 1 maaaaaaaybe go for 3k. But more likely 2500-2800, and all three of those are SS file copies. For hulk 181 the second highest grade (for which there are 79 copies) is 11-12k.

 

After that cerebus 1 drops like a rock in "value" while hulk 181 slowly tapers down, maintaining a four digit selling price all the way down to a 7.0, and raw, tattered rags with no MVS selling for close to 400, which is about what a VF raw copy of cerebus 1 last went for on ebay.

 

So which comic really is more "valuable"? If you look only at the three highest graded 9.4 examples of cerebus 1 that have sold in 10 years versus the 350 copies of a 9.4 hulk 181 (a multiple of over 100x), then cerebus 1 is. But of course that would be downright silly if you were to do that. Wouldn't it be, overstreet?

 

Because if you compare the single highest graded copy of hulk 181 to the single highest graded for cerebus 1.....hulk wins. By a lot.

 

If you compare sales of the second highest graded copies to each other .... hulk wins. By a lot.

 

If you compare each book grade for grade (other than the single highest for each book)....hulk wins..... in every single grade, and by an ever expanding percentage as you go further down the grading scale.

 

To sum it up....hulk 181 wins.

 

The last remaining crux of RMA (and a couple others) pro-cerebus 1 argument is a literalist's approach: "three highest graded 9.4 copies of cerebus 1 have sold for more than any one of the 350 copies of 9.4 hulk 181's have sold for, so overstreet got it right." They won't acknowledge the possibility of price dilution for hulk 181 in grade, even as they trumpet the stratospheric sales price of the ONE copy of the single highest graded 9.4 copy of cerebus 1 that just sold (for over 1000 LESS than it did five years ago), and salivate over what ONE 9.8 copy of a cerebus 1 might go for if it ever came to market. ) On a side note, if that ever did happen, I wonder what that would do to the value of your 9.4's.... )

 

No, overstreet got it wrong. Very wrong. Because in the real world hulk 181 is the undisputed king of the BA, value-wise, importance to the hobby-wise, historical-wise, and every single other "wise" you can think of. When hulk 181 tanked it literally took the entire Bronze Age with it.

 

Cerebus 1 meanwhile is a foot note. A novelty. A curiosity. If the book suddenly tanked in value over night it wouldn't even cause a ripple in the market. Does that mean the book is a piece of junk and has no value ? Obviously not. Clearly it has its fans, devotees, and passionate collectors. And that is never a bad thing for the hobby. Just let's not lose sight of the big picture and common sense. The OP originally began this thread questioning the book's place on overstreet's top BA list ahead of hulk 181. For all the reasons cited above, his point is well taken. Thanks for reading.

 

-J.

Without going into it, you're just flat wrong. Every comic dealer would - if offered the same two books - purchase the Cerebus 1 in 9.4 every single time. In lower grades - like everyone is saying - the Hulk wins.

Yes, logic is king. By the way, noone is saying that Cerebus is worthless.

 

That's good, because that would be contrary to established facts.

 

It has some meaning and more than many other books. However, the high price is mostly due to the low supply.

 

Says who?

 

How do you know that the high price is "mostly" due to the low supply? How do you determine which percentage of the sales price is due to demand, and which is due to the supply? Isn't it supply AND demand?

 

Because it is nearly impossible to determine how demand affects the final price of any item.

 

There are many, many books that are much, much rarer than Cerebus #1, and yet, they don't command the same prices. Why is that?

 

There are fewer Maxx #2 and #3 ashcans than Cerebus #1s....and yet, they're worth far, far less than it is. How is that so, since the supply is much lower?

 

There are only 100 copies each of the Vampirella Royal Blues, and yet, it's difficult to get $30 for most of them.

 

Let try to see if an example brings it home for you:

 

If 1.000.000 people think book A has the most important character while 5 people think book B has the most important character.

 

Then which book objectively has the most important character?

 

It is incorrect to use the word "objective" in conjunction with adjectives like "most important", "more desirable", "better", "best", etc, as those words are, by definition, used to make subjective value judgments.

 

Popularity does not determine truth. If 7 billion people believed that Howard the Duck was the most important character in comics, would that make it true?

 

Or would it rather be actual objective factors like sales figures, longevity, cross-media exposure and the like which determines importance?

 

That said, however, the issue is not, and never has been, which character is more important. No one, in the entire course of this discussion, has disputed the fact that Wolverine is a far, far more important character than Cerebus.

 

So, the example is moot.

 

Let's face facts, folks: you guys resent the fact that Cerebus #1 is more valuable than Hulk #181 in the highest grades. Admit it, and stop trying to defend it already.

 

---

 

Good...

 

Now, let's add this information:

 

There are printed 2.000.000 copies of book A.

 

There are printed 2 copies of book B.

 

Which book might fetch the highest price?

 

It might very well be book B - simply because there is not enough supply to satisfy demand. Market Theory 101.

 

You've apparently not heard of the fact that extreme rarity can actually hinder popularity, and thus the price, of an item. If an item is essentially unobtainable, it will be dismissed and ignored, because no one can actively collect it.

 

The 1804 dollar, with 15 examples floating around, is worth more than an 1870-S half dime, with only 1. You can own an 1804 dollar, if you have enough money. You cannot own an 1870-S half dime, for any price, until the owner decides to sell it.

 

However, as was demonstrated, that does NOT mean that book B is the more important book. Logic.

 

That's correct. We are all in agreement, and have never not been in agreement that Hulk #181 is a more important book to the comics hobby than Cerebus #1.

 

What you're not understanding is that this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with which character or book is more important.

 

But I thank you for your response.

 

Probably you only read some of the posts. Several people discussed which book was a major key or not.

 

Key status is determined by importance. . Not value. So obviously we began also discussing importance at some point in the thread.

 

Which book is currently more valuable makes little sense to discuss. We can look at the GPA and it shows that whenever there are far far fewer copies of cerebus it is the more valuable book. That is nothing to really discuss.

 

So the point stands. Cerebus is more valuable in most grades. But solely because it is far more scarce and despite being a less important book.

 

 

Actually Alexander as of now cerebus is only more "valuable" than hulk 181 in exactly ONE grade.....A 9.4. So essentially the pro-cerebus argument at this point is that those 3 highest graded cerebus 1's that have sold three times in ten years for up to 10k, warrant the book being ranked higher on overstreet's list. The fact that hulk 181 blows it out of the water in literally every single other grade, even though there are 50 times more copies of it out there apparently counts for nothing.

 

The pro-cerebus folks don't care to acknowledge the great likelihood that those three 9.4 cerebus 1's, when available, get bid up by fans who are chasing "single highest graded" books as trophy pieces for their collection. Kind of like that 9.6 GL 76. Or even the ASM 194 that went for 5k, I believe on heritage recently. A 9.8 of the same ASM 194 drops all the way down to about $850. Methinks a similar phenomenon would explain why cerebus 1 is such a non factor in every single grade that isn't the single highest grade....

 

So let's talk about those "single highest graded" book collectors. What were they willing to pay for that in a hulk 181. $150k is what they were willing to pay. Sorry folks, it is an apt comparison. For whatever reason, cerebus 1 is not available past a 9.4. For cerebus a 9.4 is the "single highest grade". For hulk 181 it is a 9.9. Hulk 181 had a boatload more chances to yield a 9.9 because it has a far, far greater print run than cerebus. And what does hulk 181 go for in the second highest grade ? A 9.8 just went for about 12k if I'm not mistaken. Let's please not try to have our cake and eat it too by hyping up how "rare" and "important" cerebus 1 is to justify what it sells for, and then whine about how there's no sales data and point to mysterious, off the books sales that only overstreet knows about to explain your position. And then simultaneously knock hulk 181 for being so plentiful and then disregard its top sales in its respective top grades because they are not literally "the identical" grade as cerebus' top grade (being only a 9.4). If you really think cerebus 1 is worthy of swimming in hulk 181's waters, then let it, and let's see what happens.....

 

So in an apples to apples comparison we have a cerebus 1 in the single highest grade get bid up to 9k recently. For hulk 181 the single highest grade gets bid up to 150k, four years ago, long after the book crashed and long before its recent and powerful resurgence.

 

Then for the second highest grade (of which there are also only 3 copies) we have a cerebus 1 maaaaaaaybe go for 3k. But more likely 2500-2800, and all three of those are SS file copies. For hulk 181 the second highest grade (for which there are 79 copies) is 11-12k.

 

After that cerebus 1 drops like a rock in "value" while hulk 181 slowly tapers down, maintaining a four digit selling price all the way down to a 7.0, and raw, tattered rags with no MVS selling for close to 400, which is about what a VF raw copy of cerebus 1 last went for on ebay.

 

So which comic really is more "valuable"? If you look only at the three highest graded 9.4 examples of cerebus 1 that have sold in 10 years versus the 350 copies of a 9.4 hulk 181 (a multiple of over 100x), then cerebus 1 is. But of course that would be downright silly if you were to do that. Wouldn't it be, overstreet?

 

Because if you compare the single highest graded copy of hulk 181 to the single highest graded for cerebus 1.....hulk wins. By a lot.

 

If you compare sales of the second highest graded copies to each other .... hulk wins. By a lot.

 

If you compare each book grade for grade (other than the single highest for each book)....hulk wins..... in every single grade, and by an ever expanding percentage as you go further down the grading scale.

 

To sum it up....hulk 181 wins.

 

The last remaining crux of RMA (and a couple others) pro-cerebus 1 argument is a literalist's approach: "three highest graded 9.4 copies of cerebus 1 have sold for more than any one of the 350 copies of 9.4 hulk 181's have sold for, so overstreet got it right." They won't acknowledge the possibility of price dilution for hulk 181 in grade, even as they trumpet the stratospheric sales price of the ONE copy of the single highest graded 9.4 copy of cerebus 1 that just sold (for over 1000 LESS than it did five years ago), and salivate over what ONE 9.8 copy of a cerebus 1 might go for if it ever came to market. ) On a side note, if that ever did happen, I wonder what that would do to the value of your 9.4's.... )

 

No, overstreet got it wrong. Very wrong. Because in the real world hulk 181 is the undisputed king of the BA, value-wise, importance to the hobby-wise, historical-wise, and every single other "wise" you can think of. When hulk 181 tanked it literally took the entire Bronze Age with it.

 

Cerebus 1 meanwhile is a foot note. A novelty. A curiosity. If the book suddenly tanked in value over night it wouldn't even cause a ripple in the market. Does that mean the book is a piece of junk and has no value ? Obviously not. Clearly it has its fans, devotees, and passionate collectors. And that is never a bad thing for the hobby. Just let's not lose sight of the big picture and common sense. The OP originally began this thread questioning the book's place on overstreet's top BA list ahead of hulk 181. For all the reasons cited above, his point is well taken. Thanks for reading.

 

-J.

You can make every excuse available to try and prove a point but...

FACT: Given the opportunity to purchase a Cerebus #1 CGC 9.4 or a Hulk !81 CGC 9.4 for $500 to resell... a credible knowledgeable dealer is going to take the Cerebus every time.

Because they'll make more money on the sale.

In 9.4 it's more valuable. And that's the point.

We have some of the biggest dealers in the country on these boards - some of the most well known comic dealers in the country on these boards - ask them all. They'll tell you. Cerebus #1, every time.

Why?

They'll make more money off of it.

Hense: More VALUABLE.

Real world economics vs theory and conjecture,

All of the other conjecture and theory is unimportant because OSPG's purpose is to gauge the market for selling,

In HIGHER GRADE, the DEMAND for the limited number of Cerebus #1, appears to will make it a more valuable book than Hulk 181.

You can argue it by changing the parameters of the discussion, but you can't argue the straight fact. It's true.

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

I didn't read all of this Gobbledygook. But if I wanted to make money, I would take the 9.2 Cerebus #1.. If I wanted a book for my collection, and one I would love to show off to non-collectors. I would take the 9.2 Hulk #181.

Assuming the prices were similar.

A case could be made to buy the Cerebus #1 in 9.2, and immediately sell it so that I could buy a Hulk #181 in 9.4.

That IS the game, right?

I didn't read all of this Gobbledygook. But if I wanted to make money, I would take the 9.2 Cerebus #1.. If I wanted a book for my collection, and one I would love to show off to non-collectors. I would take the 9.2 Hulk #181.

 

Assuming the prices were similar.

 

A case could be made to buy the Cerebus #1 in 9.2, and immediately sell it so that I could buy a Hulk #181 in 9.4.

 

That IS the game, right?

Maybe you should have read a little more of the "gobbledygook"....

-J.

This thread fascinates me. Kudos to all the participating boardies. If only these forums included virtual pubs.

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

So would I

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

Your signature pic is hilarious. Makes me think of Valentine's Day.

So, if you had only one opportunity in your life time to add only one of these books to your collection in CGC 9.2 which would it be?

 

Hulk 181

 

or

 

Cerebus 1

 

Remember, only one chance in a lifetime to pick one of these 2 books (and both happen to be CGC 9.2s with white pages).

 

Me personally? The Cerebus 1. But that has nothing to do with this discussion.

 

I would take a 35 cent Scooby Doo #1 over either of them, and I demand to see it crack the OSPG Top Ten immediately.

 

So would I

 

Your signature pic is hilarious. Makes me think of Valentine's Day.

I suppose that I should clarify and say that it was the heart shape that made me think of Valentine's Day. Wouldn't want to imply that my February 14ths were that successful.