General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean

29 29

Take it (see what I did there ) from someone who knows... and aggressive buyer will interpret the sign however he sees it will justify his means.

Here is a simple quote I have used in the past... that anyone can cut and paste and use if they want...

"As the seller of my goods in my sales thread, I dictate the rules herein".

Given, a certain amount of levelheadedness has to be attached to that statement (as in the seller won't change the price after a take it has been posted or won't add extra provisions to the sale).

If a seller doesn't have this sense of levelheadedness, then his selling days will be numbered... as the buying public here won't deal with those types of shenanigans.

Uniformity is not something that has been adhered to on the sales boards in the past. Not by sellers, buyers or by moderation.

I'm with Beige on this one... more rules won't help... especially since they can be altered or changed at a whim with a mere phone call or PM to someone in the know.

I haven't followed along so sorry if this is wrong - but weren't people advocating for a "regular rules" template so when sellers list "regular rules apply" there is a clear detailed explanation of what that means. This would ONLY impact those sellers that chose to list "regular rules apply." Everyone else could continue tailoring their sales threads and the governing rules behind them.

What new "rules" being implemented are everyone against?

I haven't followed along so sorry if this is wrong - but weren't people advocating for a "regular rules" template so when sellers list "regular rules apply" there is a clear detailed explanation of what that means. This would ONLY impact those sellers that chose to list "regular rules apply." Everyone else could continue tailoring their sales threads and the governing rules behind them.

 

What new "rules" being implemented are everyone against?

I think it's "any more rules" that is what some are against, Justin

But that's what I'm saying - what "rules" would be changed, added, modified, altered, transformed, amended, etc.?

There would just finally be some clarity to what the "regular rules" actually ARE when people cite them. The majority of people use their own rules so they would not be affected by this. This would only provide clarity and eliminate grey areas for users of "regular rules apply." This clearly defined "regular rules" would be created by the community, no?

Yes that is the point. No one is forcing a template down anyone's throats.

People are free to make any type of rules up for their own thread.

However when you refer to 'regular rules' you are not referring to anything since they do not exist. If you want to cite regular rules then there should be some type of idea what those rules are. Until regular rules are defined, theoretically any thread that cites them is not following the guidelines since in reality they are not stating any terms at all.

But that's what I'm saying - what "rules" would be changed, added, modified, altered, transformed, amended, etc.?

 

There would just finally be some clarity to what the "regular rules" actually ARE when people cite them. The majority of people use their own rules do they would not be affected by this. This would only provide clarity and eliminate grey areas for users of "regular rules apply." This clearly defined "regular rules" would be created by the community, no?

Really the only rules that should be put into play here are these two basic rules... the 30 day rule to complete transactions and the rule of not screwing over your fellow boardies.

I believe in a three page rule book. Front cover, one page, back cover. Technically that's a one page rule book

Simple and direct to the point no?

You guys need help. Every seller does things differently. It is at the sellers discretion to make his rules, his way. I have NEVER EVER EVER seen as much crying in the FS forum, as I have the last year. gets the book, pending scan should ONLY be acceptable if the seller states that in HIS terms. Otherwise unconditional should get the book. As far as in the thread or PM? Unconditional gets the book, time stamp should decide. People have a right to their privacy, respect that. Nobody should be forced into purchasing publicly.

But that's what I'm saying - what "rules" would be changed, added, modified, altered, transformed, amended, etc.?

 

There would just finally be some clarity to what the "regular rules" actually ARE when people cite them. The majority of people use their own rules do they would not be affected by this. This would only provide clarity and eliminate grey areas for users of "regular rules apply." This clearly defined "regular rules" would be created by the community, no?

 

Really the only rules that should be put into play here are these two basic rules... the 30 day rule to complete transactions and the rule of not screwing over your fellow boardies.

 

I believe in a three page rule book. Front cover, one page, back cover. Technically that's a one page rule book

 

Simple and direct to the point no?

Rupp here's the thing. So many of the problems lately are coming from n00bs. I include myself in this designation. Many of us have not been here long enough to know the older crews "unwritten rules". So lets write them. It becomes a safety net. If some lazy seller decides not to write up rules, then he is held to the "regular rules' if he mods them, then they control.

and now you know why I asked the question. There's lots to discuss. Should not selling to pl hosers be part of it as well? That's why I want to propose a set of conditions and vote on each one in committee line by line until we have a working finished draft. Then put that draft up to a board wide vote (say of 1 month) the committee is open to everyone to participate in with suggestions and votes until we have a final product

 

You seem a really genuine , nice guy with no ego to rub, or attention seeking attributes, so I feel I can say this, and you will take it the right way.

 

Committee's? Line decisions?

 

99.9% of sales pass of without incident. Piling more and more rules on top of rules - decided by people who just have to be on the 'top-table committee' just complicates things.

 

This last scenario came about because the guy was steaming drunk when he sold his book well below the perceived market value.

 

He was happy with the price, and went through with the deal. This seems to be more about the one's that didn't post the unconditional before the one stating "pending scans".

 

People have been posting the 'pending' option pretty much everytime someone posts and can't put pics up for a few hours - and always because the book is cheap.

 

We don't need any more rules, and we certainly don't need an unelected committee to decide what is best for everyone else.

 

Besides, if I'm being brutally honest, the 'invite by PM' forum has a sales market which will grow quite quickly as more and more boardies head over there.

 

Plus Mr Borocks, if he decides to have one on his.

 

Why can't it just be left as is, and deal with any individual problems that may occur.

 

As usual, neither buyer or seller of the book in question is on this thread complaining about anything, so why does anyone else have to be involved?

 

Like I said Jay, you seem a really nice guy, and this isn't aimed at you in any way, but if it ain't really broke, do we need unelected committee's to fix imaginary breakages?

 

It might be because some seller's can't be trusted to not exploit any tiny crack or gap in the current structure and, while dealing with problems that pop up going forward may deal with the problem in an ongoing basis, it does nothing to prevent the exploitation of those gaps by sellers who know exactly what they are doing and will game those rules to their advantage. They are counting on those gaps and that forward looking enforcement to not be able to prevent them from perpetuating their current actions.

If every boardie could be trusted to do the right thing and not game the loop holes to their own advantage (and another boardie's disadvantage) rules wouldn't be necessary.

It's obvious every boardie can't be trusted.

You guys need help. Every seller does things differently. It is at the sellers discretion to make his rules, his way. I have NEVER EVER EVER seen as much crying in the FS forum, as I have the last year. gets the book, pending scan should ONLY be acceptable if the seller states that in HIS terms. Otherwise unconditional should get the book. As far as in the thread or PM? Unconditional gets the book, time stamp should decide. People have a right to their privacy, respect that. Nobody should be forced into purchasing publicly.

No one should be forced into purchasing publicly, but if the seller for whatever reason states it as one of his terms, I don't think there's a problem with asking for it. If they lose sales as a result, that's the seller's problem.

But yes I'm pro 'unconditional' and pro 'timestamp' and also pro 'write your own dam rules and make them clear and tailor them to your own preferences as a seller'

You guys need help. Every seller does things differently. It is at the sellers discretion to make his rules, his way. I have NEVER EVER EVER seen as much crying in the FS forum, as I have the last year. gets the book, pending scan should ONLY be acceptable if the seller states that in HIS terms. Otherwise unconditional should get the book. As far as in the thread or PM? Unconditional gets the book, time stamp should decide. People have a right to their privacy, respect that. Nobody should be forced into purchasing publicly.

 

No one should be forced into purchasing publicly, but if the seller for whatever reason states it as one of his terms, I don't think there's a problem with asking for it. If they lose sales as a result, that's the seller's problem.

 

But yes I'm pro 'unconditional' and pro 'timestamp' and also pro 'write your own dam rules and make them clear and tailor them to your own preferences as a seller'

and now you know why I asked the question. There's lots to discuss. Should not selling to pl hosers be part of it as well? That's why I want to propose a set of conditions and vote on each one in committee line by line until we have a working finished draft. Then put that draft up to a board wide vote (say of 1 month) the committee is open to everyone to participate in with suggestions and votes until we have a final product

 

You seem a really genuine , nice guy with no ego to rub, or attention seeking attributes, so I feel I can say this, and you will take it the right way.

 

Committee's? Line decisions?

 

99.9% of sales pass of without incident. Piling more and more rules on top of rules - decided by people who just have to be on the 'top-table committee' just complicates things.

 

This last scenario came about because the guy was steaming drunk when he sold his book well below the perceived market value.

 

He was happy with the price, and went through with the deal. This seems to be more about the one's that didn't post the unconditional before the one stating "pending scans".

 

People have been posting the 'pending' option pretty much everytime someone posts and can't put pics up for a few hours - and always because the book is cheap.

 

We don't need any more rules, and we certainly don't need an unelected committee to decide what is best for everyone else.

 

Besides, if I'm being brutally honest, the 'invite by PM' forum has a sales market which will grow quite quickly as more and more boardies head over there.

 

Plus Mr Borocks, if he decides to have one on his.

 

Why can't it just be left as is, and deal with any individual problems that may occur.

 

As usual, neither buyer or seller of the book in question is on this thread complaining about anything, so why does anyone else have to be involved?

 

Like I said Jay, you seem a really nice guy, and this isn't aimed at you in any way, but if it ain't really broke, do we need unelected committee's to fix imaginary breakages?

 

 

 

It might be because some seller's can't be trusted to not exploit any tiny crack or gap in the current structure and, while dealing with problems that pop up going forward may deal with the problem in an ongoing basis, it does nothing to prevent the exploitation of those gaps by sellers who know exactly what they are doing and will game those rules to their advantage. They are counting on those gaps and that forward looking enforcement to not be able to prevent them from perpetuating their current actions.

 

If every boardie could be trusted to do the right thing and not game the loop holes to their own advantage (and another boardie's disadvantage) rules wouldn't be necessary.

 

It's obvious every boardie can't be trusted.

and now you know why I asked the question. There's lots to discuss. Should not selling to pl hosers be part of it as well? That's why I want to propose a set of conditions and vote on each one in committee line by line until we have a working finished draft. Then put that draft up to a board wide vote (say of 1 month) the committee is open to everyone to participate in with suggestions and votes until we have a final product

 

You seem a really genuine , nice guy with no ego to rub, or attention seeking attributes, so I feel I can say this, and you will take it the right way.

 

Committee's? Line decisions?

 

99.9% of sales pass of without incident. Piling more and more rules on top of rules - decided by people who just have to be on the 'top-table committee' just complicates things.

 

This last scenario came about because the guy was steaming drunk when he sold his book well below the perceived market value.

 

He was happy with the price, and went through with the deal. This seems to be more about the one's that didn't post the unconditional before the one stating "pending scans".

 

People have been posting the 'pending' option pretty much everytime someone posts and can't put pics up for a few hours - and always because the book is cheap.

 

We don't need any more rules, and we certainly don't need an unelected committee to decide what is best for everyone else.

 

Besides, if I'm being brutally honest, the 'invite by PM' forum has a sales market which will grow quite quickly as more and more boardies head over there.

 

Plus Mr Borocks, if he decides to have one on his.

 

Why can't it just be left as is, and deal with any individual problems that may occur.

 

As usual, neither buyer or seller of the book in question is on this thread complaining about anything, so why does anyone else have to be involved?

 

Like I said Jay, you seem a really nice guy, and this isn't aimed at you in any way, but if it ain't really broke, do we need unelected committee's to fix imaginary breakages?

 

 

 

It might be because some seller's can't be trusted to not exploit any tiny crack or gap in the current structure and, while dealing with problems that pop up going forward may deal with the problem in an ongoing basis, it does nothing to prevent the exploitation of those gaps by sellers who know exactly what they are doing and will game those rules to their advantage. They are counting on those gaps and that forward looking enforcement to not be able to prevent them from perpetuating their current actions.

 

If every boardie could be trusted to do the right thing and not game the loop holes to their own advantage (and another boardie's disadvantage) rules wouldn't be necessary.

 

It's obvious every boardie can't be trusted.

Don't forget to apply that analogy to the buyer as well.

A buyer can exploit any crack or gap in the current structure as well

and now you know why I asked the question. There's lots to discuss. Should not selling to pl hosers be part of it as well? That's why I want to propose a set of conditions and vote on each one in committee line by line until we have a working finished draft. Then put that draft up to a board wide vote (say of 1 month) the committee is open to everyone to participate in with suggestions and votes until we have a final product

 

You seem a really genuine , nice guy with no ego to rub, or attention seeking attributes, so I feel I can say this, and you will take it the right way.

 

Committee's? Line decisions?

 

99.9% of sales pass of without incident. Piling more and more rules on top of rules - decided by people who just have to be on the 'top-table committee' just complicates things.

 

This last scenario came about because the guy was steaming drunk when he sold his book well below the perceived market value.

 

He was happy with the price, and went through with the deal. This seems to be more about the one's that didn't post the unconditional before the one stating "pending scans".

 

People have been posting the 'pending' option pretty much everytime someone posts and can't put pics up for a few hours - and always because the book is cheap.

 

We don't need any more rules, and we certainly don't need an unelected committee to decide what is best for everyone else.

 

Besides, if I'm being brutally honest, the 'invite by PM' forum has a sales market which will grow quite quickly as more and more boardies head over there.

 

Plus Mr Borocks, if he decides to have one on his.

 

Why can't it just be left as is, and deal with any individual problems that may occur.

 

As usual, neither buyer or seller of the book in question is on this thread complaining about anything, so why does anyone else have to be involved?

 

Like I said Jay, you seem a really nice guy, and this isn't aimed at you in any way, but if it ain't really broke, do we need unelected committee's to fix imaginary breakages?

 

 

 

It might be because some seller's can't be trusted to not exploit any tiny crack or gap in the current structure and, while dealing with problems that pop up going forward may deal with the problem in an ongoing basis, it does nothing to prevent the exploitation of those gaps by sellers who know exactly what they are doing and will game those rules to their advantage. They are counting on those gaps and that forward looking enforcement to not be able to prevent them from perpetuating their current actions.

 

If every boardie could be trusted to do the right thing and not game the loop holes to their own advantage (and another boardie's disadvantage) rules wouldn't be necessary.

 

It's obvious every boardie can't be trusted.

 

Don't forget to apply that analogy to the buyer as well.

 

A buyer can exploit any crack or gap in the current structure as well

Happens all the time. I agree. I was just referring to the current discussion of "usual rules", etc.

And my comment of crying in the sales forum was directed towards what is being done here, or these individuals. But a comment of the sales threads that get ugly as a result of members not working things out in private.

This "regular rules" thing seems to be something new and used by newer sellers.

I've been here a while, I have no clue what the "regular rules" signify.

Do a little work and if you can't figure out how to word something, copy someone else's. This whole I'm too lazy thing doesn't work. If someone is too lazy to post his/her rules, aren't they going to be too lazy to send out your book if you pay?

Some people think it's "regular" to post books without pictures.

There is a simple solution. Don't post anything until you HAVE a picture.

Again, if you are in an emergency situation and the house is falling down, you need cash before the roof collapses, take out your darn cell phone if that is all you have and POST a picture.

And don't sell while drunk.

Rupp here's the thing. So many of the problems lately are coming from n00bs. I include myself in this designation. Many of us have not been here long enough to know the older crews "unwritten rules". So lets write them. It becomes a safety net. If some lazy seller decides not to write up rules, then he is held to the "regular rules' if he mods them, then they control.

I agree totally Jaybuck. Don't get me wrong... a set basis of rules or guidelines would be fantastic for the n00bs to have to follow.

The problem is that the basic sales rules that the CGC board has provided us with here...

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1460472&page=1#Post1460472

... can't even be upheld.

When a boardie can make a phone call and have a rule changed to his favor in relation to these "set" rules... what chance does ANY rule that we... being the lowly boardies we are... try to enact.

If you can't get moderation here to be steadfast in relation to fairness and equality in relation to their "posted" rules... I'm not sure how much one can expect.

I feel that HarveySwick's n00b thread is a fantastic place for these new sellers to learn what to do. Perhaps more effort should be placed in directing them there to learn the "in's and outs" of selling before they try to. That said, Moderation rules state that n00bs need to read the selling guidelines before they list as well... and obviously that's not happening either.

A compulsive, angry buyer will interpret ANY rule to his benefit. Syntax will be analyzed and opinions for and against will be brought forth. Sides will be chosen and before you know it... a Friday thread will be born.

It's literally like peeing into the wind

Wow! Symbi banned!

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7903746#Post7903746

10 more posts to 25K