PROBATION DISCUSSIONS

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I am nominating Symbiotic (Joseph Andrew Kim aka Drew Kim) to the Hall of Shame. He has exhibited several signs of being a scammer and a complete fraud on multiple occasions. His modus operandi of choice appears to do something fraudulent or deceptive, be discovered and apologize and claim he needs a period of reflection to help himself. Rinse, repeat.

Symbiotic first backed out of a sale from one member of the Boards claiming he has fallen upon hard times and wouldn't be able to complete a transaction where he had bought a book. However, it was discovered that Symbiotic was, at the same time, buying a more expensive book from another seller on the Boards.

On another occasion, Symbiotic had listed a book for sale. Upon a potential buyer taking the book, Symbiotic informed the buyer that the price has now doubled and would not honor the sales thread listed price.

Symbiotic was later discovered as to have been shilling his auctions on 11/13/13. He admitted I obviously knew shilling was not a morally ok practice and used his standard defense of I messed up real bad here, I see that now and I understand. If you want to prob me, ban me, or never deal with me again I also understand. for the first time. This led to several threads such as I shill my own auctions but you can't hate cause I admit it and his eventual response thread: The Shiller Speaks where once again he tries to garner pity by admitting his faults and falsely stating that he hopes to change and loves this community. When this thread happened, he also changed his name to "Future" and then changed it back to Symbiotic when he realized yes the name change back to symbiotic is due to the fact that i'm not trying to hide anything at this point and vowed to take some time away from selling because these Boards meant more to him for the community aspect more than the monetary aspect. This time away from selling lasted less than two weeks where once again he tried to elicit sympathy and admitting all of his wrong doings and said he wasn't going to sell here every again I won't be doing any sales threads EVER again, and that's not hyperbole. Ban me on sight if I do so. This time his "I'll never sell here again" lasted closed to two months.

On April 18, 2014, he was nominated for the PL by Wolfpack06 who had purchased a Manifest Destiny #1 off of Symbiotic around the time the book got hot. Instead of sending the book to Wolfpack06, Symbiotic submitted it to CGC "by mistake". He PMed Wolfpack06 and informed him of this and asked Wolfpack if he still wanted the book. Wolfpack06 replied via PM that he did still want the book. This was read and ignored by Symbiotic who instead listed the book on eBay for a higher price and sold the book and refunded the original purchase price back to Wolfpack06. He pulled the customary: I'm stepping away from the board and selling for the foreseeable future.

Again, he tried to change his name to "whouffle". It was also discovered less than a week later that he was still shilling his eBay auctions. Once AGAIN, he stated he wasn't going to sell on the forums anymore. I'm not looking to sell on the forums anymore, as I don't think I deserve that right. its a right not a privilege to sell to this great community. For a second time, he stated that he was changing his name back to Symbiotic because he had nothing to hide. He was added to the Probation List. However. on July 8, 2014, he was right back to selling. There were several that advocated for him to be removed from the Probation List since he had refunded Wolfpack06. Later that day, Wolfpack06 confirmed the refund from Symbiotic and Symbiotic was removed from the Probation List. On July 10, 2014, Symbiotic at the urging of others due to his removal from the Probation List earlier in the week, started a new sales thread selling a Hero for Hire #1 8.5 White Pages. It was determined that this book was listed on eBay. At that time, Symbiotic admitted the book he had used in the scans was not the same book, but one he had found on eBay. His book was actually an OW/W copy. He had simply stolen images from an eBay seller and passed it off as if that was the copy for sale.

At this point, he has proved time and time again that he does not honor transactions, whether buying or selling, he is a twice discovered shiller and his pattern of eliciting sympathy behind cries of regret and admitting mistakes and taking time off appears to be a ploy to bury his history and reappear several months later with hopes of having many forgetting his repeated transgressions on the Boards.

UPDATE NO. 1: Even after apologizing, Symbiotic continues to shill his auctions AFTER this poll was started.

UPDATE NO. 2: Caveat Emptor

UPDATE NO. 3 : Caveat Emptor

UPDATE NO. 4 : More Shilling

UPDATE NO. 5 : Strikes: Attempted to make two shill accounts here. - House Stark and Yaygurr

UPDATE NO. 6 : More shills: Storm Born f/k/a Sir See Lannister, JD Glitch

UPDATE NO. 7 : Even more shills: RubberFlipz, Glitch215

UPDATE NO. 8 : Another shill: Staroline

You can kick people out in clash of clans??? How am I just learning this???

 

You can kick someone out of your Clan. Actually says "Kick Out" beside a persons name. Must be Elder or higher.

 

I kicked out plenty of dead beat clan members that donate nothing but while I am giving them level 5 fighters.

Lvl 6 archers and lvl 5 wiz in my clan period. It's just a pain in the butt raiding a level 110 camp with lvl 4 archers.

I don't dispute anything Harvey brought up. I'm ashamed of my actions and deserve whatever punishment is deemed fit.

My only point of contention is with one exception I have gotten all buyers their books as promised in a timely matter. My ethics in advertising and selling were disputable however.

There's no need for a poll after I ship the last of these orders I'll be leaving the board fr good

I do deeply appologize. You are a great community that I don't deserve to partake in.

I don't dispute anything Harvey brought up. I'm ashamed of my actions and deserve whatever punishment is deemed fit.

 

My only point of contention is with one exception I have gotten all buyers their books as promised in a timely matter. My ethics in advertising and selling were disputable however.

 

 

There's no need for a poll after I ship the last of these orders I'll be leaving the board fr good

 

 

I do deeply appologize. You are a great community that I don't deserve to partake in.

haven't you said this at least once, twice, three times now?

I've said I won't sell for a while, or something along those words. I welcome a full ban. Anything you see fit.

scammers don't need to scam everyone...they scam selectively or you wouldn't lure in more customers.

so using your success rate to contend anything is utterly GARBAGE.

I've said I won't sell for a while, or something along those words. I welcome a full ban. Anything you see fit.

If you feel this way, then you don't have to wait for poll results to say so, just take it upon yourself to show us that you are sincere in your intention to take responsibility for your failures and punish yourself by leaving.

There's no need for a poll after I ship the last of these orders I'll be leaving the board fr good .

Terrible

I've said I won't sell for a while, or something along those words. I welcome a full ban. Anything you see fit.

 

 

If you feel this way, then you don't have to wait for poll results to say so, just take it upon yourself to show us that you are sincere in your intention to take responsibility for your failures and punish yourself by leaving.

That's the plan once my final sales reach the buyers.

I've said I won't sell for a while, or something along those words. I welcome a full ban. Anything you see fit.

 

If you feel this way, then you don't have to wait for poll results to say so, just take it upon yourself to show us that you are sincere in your intention to take responsibility for your failures and punish yourself by leaving.

More than that, I’d take what happens as a lesson to reflect…

Honestly, Symbiotic, punishments should serve to no other purpose than having people repent and strive to be good, otherwise they are useless.

I’d treasure what has happened to you so far to see this…

I've said I won't sell for a while, or something along those words. I welcome a full ban. Anything you see fit.

 

 

If you feel this way, then you don't have to wait for poll results to say so, just take it upon yourself to show us that you are sincere in your intention to take responsibility for your failures and punish yourself by leaving.

 

That's the plan once my final sales reach the buyers.

Or until you come back to the board under another ID?

Voted we give him one more chance, he's trying to do better.

So can't we just let this slide just a little?

I voted to add

Voted we give him one more chance, he's trying to do better.

 

So can't we just let this slide just a little?

 

 

I voted to add

+1

Where's the déjà vu thread? I think I've been here before.

Where's the déjà vu thread? I think I've been here before.

Sorry Symbo... it's time to pursue your interests elsewhere. I'm philosophically in favor of forgiveness, but repeated issues I am not a fan of because it hurts the community as a whole.

I've said I won't sell for a while, or something along those words. I welcome a full ban. Anything you see fit.

 

 

If you feel this way, then you don't have to wait for poll results to say so, just take it upon yourself to show us that you are sincere in your intention to take responsibility for your failures and punish yourself by leaving.

 

That's the plan once my final sales reach the buyers.

 

 

Or until you come back to the board under another ID?

+1

 

Sorry Symbo... it's time to pursue your interests elsewhere. I'm philosophically in favor of forgiveness, but repeated issues I am not a fan of because it hurts the community as a whole.

More than that, as I said, any kind of punishment risks to work against you if you do not realize you have to change. I hope the better for him, regardless.

I've said I won't sell for a while, or something along those words. I welcome a full ban. Anything you see fit.

 

 

If you feel this way, then you don't have to wait for poll results to say so, just take it upon yourself to show us that you are sincere in your intention to take responsibility for your failures and punish yourself by leaving.

 

That's the plan once my final sales reach the buyers.

 

 

Or until you come back to the board under another ID?

We know this is how it will play out. Another Muscleshark

Maybe I missed something, but I'll play devil's advocate on this most recent infraction:

He used an eBay picture as a "stock photo" because he had no scans available. Being primarily a modern collector, he:

- paid attention only to the number and not the PQ when selecting an image (when does PQ ever come up with moderns?).

- did not think a "stock photo" would be a problem. With moderns, you're typically dealing with 9.8s and the general feeling is that a 9.8 is a 9.8. What's the difference if it's the same exact copy or not? Plenty of sellers sell multiple copies of the same 9.8 modern using the same scan.

- did not realize that when dealing with non-modern books, people tend to "buy the book, not the grade". An actual image when dealing with an older book, especially one that is not a 9.8, is important to most.

I have nothing to say about his previous infractions, but I believe this one was just sloppiness or ignorance and that there was no intent to deceive. I think if this were a modern in 9.8 and if this was someone else, we wouldn't have an issue.