What is your Favorite Art,Drawing or story by Rob Liefeld?

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Any Vince Colletta fans out there?

but the absolute peak of McFarlane's skill was 315-328 - the absolute consensus among all his fans and collectors.

If I don't think the artist has ever submitted a decent page of art, what am I supposed to think of the opinions of his fans and collectors?

 

It's the same argument as with Liefeld.

 

Even if you don't like their art, whether you want to admit it or not, every artist peaks at some point. Every artist has a point where their work is the best it will be.

 

If you don't like McFarlane that's fine, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a peak of his work that shows off his skillset the best.

 

Here's an example of McFarlanes art that I think shows off what he brought to comics.

 

 

- You start with a cool image of Spidey crouching down dropping you into the page from the top, but with speed lines to give it some momentum and pull you in to the hand

- Then zoom in to a close-up of Spidey's hand reading a vital piece of information.

- That panel then overlaps with the one below, bringing you into the wreckage as it cascades from upper right to lower left, where we then see Spidey walking out the door in thought. Also note the placement of the word balloons being stacked vertically.

- Peter Parker returns home still scratching his head while MJ's workout mimics the rubble/word balloon layout above, BUT with a thick black border that helps it to offset with all of the black used in the top 2 panels. Also note the use of black in MJ's shadow, leotard, and the TV to help establish the angle..

 

You may not like his anatomy, you may not like his detail, but the man certainly knew how to layout, design, and tell a story with pictures.

McFarlane was another guy stuck on one camera angle

The easiest camera angle btw

You may not like his anatomy, you may not like his detail, but the man certainly knew how to layout, design, and tell a story with pictures.

I actually think layout was the biggest problem with mainstream comics at the time. This isn't the worst example, but even artists whose work I liked had terrible layout. For example, Barry Windsor Smith's Weapon X. Great story, great art, the layout was just stupid. There was no reason to get fancy with the panels besides follow the trend of comics of the time, which is unfortunate to see BWS do, especially on the best Wolverine story to see print. If you can't clearly read left to right, top to bottom, the artist is doing something wrong. Unnecessary posing and splash pages are annoying. And turning a comic sideways to read a page, that is a fail.

 

And it looks like she's resting her legs on that TV.

Edited May 9, 2014 by dupont2005

(snip)

 

If you can't make your arguments without calling people names, there's really no point in having a conversation. It simply shows that you feel your position is weak, so you mask it by aggressive posturing.

 

If your argument was solid, you wouldn't need to be calling people "insufficiently_thoughtful_persons."

 

 

Any Vince Colletta fans out there?

 

Loved his work over Kirby on JIM / Thor, and FF# 40-43.

Art Spiegelman

Jaime Hernandez

Gilbert Hernandez

Mario Hernandez

Gary Groth

Frank Miller

Dave Sim

Wendy Pini

Richard Pini

Alan Moore

Denis Kitchen

Robert Crumb

Richard Corben

Milo Manara

Moebius

Ron Turner

 

There's 16 off the top of my head

 

Now THAT is a far more valid list. :clap:

 

It wasn't a competition, which is a very, very large part of your problem.

Any Vince Colletta fans out there?

 

Loved his work over Kirby on JIM / Thor, and FF# 40-43.

Oh yeah that stuff was solid. He worked well with Kirby.

McFarlane's art got worse as time went on, after a certain point.

 

That particular scene is from Spidey #318 or #319. Issues #320-325 are a mess.

 

Issue #300, on the other hand, is as good as McFarlane ever got (outside of the excessive linework on Brock.)

 

Hahahahaha, you are the most delusional person I've ever seen learn how to type. I wish I could meet you in person and give you a banana for all you've accomplished.

 

When you have to insult the people you're debating, it's almost always because your arguments have failed.

 

300 was brilliant - complete agreement there, but the absolute peak of McFarlane's skill was 315-328 - the absolute consensus among all his fans and collectors.

 

Source?

 

I can post page after horrible page of Spiderman #321, 322, 323, 325....it's rushed, it's poorly inked, the faces are all squashed...it's a mess, and being bi-weekly didn't help it.

 

Why do you insist on making things up out of thin air?

 

Just to keep you straight, we're not talking about #315-317 NOR #328, although the signs were starting to show that McFarlane was getting lazy.

 

His best work on the run was issues #310-314, where he clearly had the time and willingness to really pour his heart into it.

 

#322, by comparison, is a HACK JOB, and only someone completely unfamiliar with his work would say otherwise.

 

The more you post the more clearly it comes across that you personally like a certain type of art and judge all art on those standards. The closer it gets to older styles and less creativity the more you like it.

 

This is a deflection, and bears no resemblance to reality.

 

And clearly when it has an amazing lamp in the background:)

 

This is also a deflection.

 

Todd McFarlane is NOT an Artist (Capital "A"), and never was.

 

You're damn right he wasn't.

 

An ARTIST, regardless of his or her field, creates. It's what they DO. It's in their BLOOD. They get up every morning with an overwhelming drive to CREATE.

 

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

 

I love that all of your arguments hinge almost entirely on your personal feelings about what a word means.

 

"Well to me 'artist' means this specific set of requirements and without them you can't possibly consider yourself an artist!" Hahahaha. You are a trip.

 

Do you know how many professionals never draw outside of work? Who draw only because it's the career they're in? But apparently they aren't artists huh?

 

And I love that after proclaiming that McFarlane is not an artist based on your bizarro world logic, you then actually say "an artist wakes up every morning with a desire to create" - but clearly that doesn't apply to creating a toy, a video game, or any art not used in a comic book??

 

Hahaha, really starting to think you're writing to us from he psyche ward in Bellevue...

The fact is, without Rob Liefeld, the comic book industry wouldn't have been changed much at all. As Chuck said, it was MCFARLANE, not Liefeld, who came up with Image, so there goes that one.

 

What planet are you two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons living on? Go research some of the wildly_fanciful_statement you're trying to shovel. This is a complete fallacy.

 

Liefeld solicited a comic called Berserkers, a ripoff of X-Force, that was going to be released through Malibu at the same time he was doing XF. Marvel went berserk and threatened to sue and fire him.

 

Liefeld talked to McFarlane, explained what he was doing, and it snowballed from there. The entire thing started from Liefeld. McFarlane had already quit Marvel and was playing daddy, completely unsure what he was doing next.

 

And I can name 50 people who are more important to comics in the last 25 years than Rob Liefeld.

 

Here, let's start:

 

Alex Ross

Neil Gaiman

Grant Morrison

Jim Lee

Karen Berger

Ron Perelman (ugh)

Steve Geppi

Brian Michael Bendis

Robert Kirkman

Geoff Johns

 

etc...etc...etc...

 

Are you kidding me? You've mostly named a list of popular current writers and a hack artist who was popular for a few years for doing photo reference paintings. There are plenty of great artists and writers throughout history, but the vast majority of them could have vanished and things wouldn't have changed.

 

The only ones on this list that belong are the ones who truly changed the landscape of comics.

 

Lee and Berger arguments could be made for but even Berger is too small in the grand scheme, working at a single company. Lee at least created Wildstorm, ran multiple studios, then took over DC. The same argument could be made for Johns and Quesada. Perelman sadly belongs as well, and an argument could be made for Geppi.

 

Your perspective is utterly, utterly off.

 

Karen Berger is responsible for Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison (among others) working at DC. Karen Berger CREATED Vertigo.

 

 

But this only solidifies my position - Geppi, Perelman, and Liefeld are 3 that are villains in this list, who may not have changed comics for the better but certainly influenced it hugely.

 

Liefeld has had 1/100th the impact on the comics industry that Geppi and Perelman had.

 

Seriously....stop already. You don't know what you're talking about, you know *just enough* to sound like you do, and you keep digging yourself a deeper and deeper and deeper hole.

Art Spiegelman

Jaime Hernandez

Gilbert Hernandez

Mario Hernandez

Gary Groth

Frank Miller

Dave Sim

Wendy Pini

Richard Pini

Alan Moore

Denis Kitchen

Robert Crumb

Richard Corben

Milo Manara

Moebius

Ron Turner

 

There's 16 off the top of my head

 

Now THAT is a far more valid list. :clap:

 

It wasn't a competition, which is a very, very large part of your problem.

 

It's certainly not a competition! But some people clearly understand the history of comics, such as DuPont here, as opposed to rambling off the names of your favorite writers.

 

Yes, fine, great, I'm happy you read all the popular stuff people and magazines tell you to read. It doesn't mean any of them changed comics.

 

 

I think Liefeld did have a significant impact on mainstream comics in the early 90's.

 

But to say he's "the most important figure in comics in the last 25 years" because he was partially responsible for a trend of garbage superhero comics for a couple years?

 

No.

 

Todd McFarlane is NOT an Artist (Capital "A"), and never was.

 

You're damn right he wasn't.

 

An ARTIST, regardless of his or her field, creates. It's what they DO. It's in their BLOOD. They get up every morning with an overwhelming drive to CREATE.

 

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

 

I love that all of your arguments hinge almost entirely on your personal feelings about what a word means.

 

"Well to me 'artist' means this specific set of requirements and without them you can't possibly consider yourself an artist!" Hahahaha. You are a trip.

 

Do you know how many professionals never draw outside of work? Who draw only because it's the career they're in? But apparently they aren't artists huh?

 

And I love that after proclaiming that McFarlane is not an artist based on your bizarro world logic, you then actually say "an artist wakes up every morning with a desire to create" - but clearly that doesn't apply to creating a toy, a video game, or any art not used in a comic book??

 

Hahaha, really starting to think you're writing to us from he psyche ward in Bellevue...

 

When you cannot make your arguments without insulting those you are arguing with, you have lost.

 

As far as "psyche ward in Bellevue"...who is the one typing "Hahahahahaha" over and over....?

 

Isn't that what the Joker does....? Laughs maniacally?

Art Spiegelman

Jaime Hernandez

Gilbert Hernandez

Mario Hernandez

Gary Groth

Frank Miller

Dave Sim

Wendy Pini

Richard Pini

Alan Moore

Denis Kitchen

Robert Crumb

Richard Corben

Milo Manara

Moebius

Ron Turner

 

There's 16 off the top of my head

 

Now THAT is a far more valid list. :clap:

 

It wasn't a competition, which is a very, very large part of your problem.

 

It's certainly not a competition! But some people clearly understand the history of comics, such as DuPont here, as opposed to rambling off the names of your favorite writers.

 

Yes, fine, great, I'm happy you read all the popular stuff people and magazines tell you to read. It doesn't mean any of them changed comics.

 

 

Like I said...you argue like a teenager, filled with angst, but lacking in reason and logic.

 

And I'm sure you'll have another cute quip to follow this, as well.

 

Todd McFarlane is NOT an Artist (Capital "A"), and never was.

 

You're damn right he wasn't.

 

An ARTIST, regardless of his or her field, creates. It's what they DO. It's in their BLOOD. They get up every morning with an overwhelming drive to CREATE.

 

Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

 

I love that all of your arguments hinge almost entirely on your personal feelings about what a word means.

 

"Well to me 'artist' means this specific set of requirements and without them you can't possibly consider yourself an artist!" Hahahaha. You are a trip.

 

Do you know how many professionals never draw outside of work? Who draw only because it's the career they're in? But apparently they aren't artists huh?

 

And I love that after proclaiming that McFarlane is not an artist based on your bizarro world logic, you then actually say "an artist wakes up every morning with a desire to create" - but clearly that doesn't apply to creating a toy, a video game, or any art not used in a comic book??

 

Hahaha, really starting to think you're writing to us from he psyche ward in Bellevue...

 

When you cannot make your arguments without insulting those you are arguing with, you have lost.

 

As far as "psyche ward in Bellevue"...who is the one typing "Hahahahahaha" over and over....?

 

Isn't that what the Joker does....? Laughs maniacally?

Those people that talk to themself-I always wonder do they do that when they're by themself

Those people that talk to themself-I always wonder do they do that when they're by themself

Clearly they post here.

 

That's very..very...VERY clear.

 

I talk to my cat.

The fact is, without Rob Liefeld, the comic book industry wouldn't have been changed much at all. As Chuck said, it was MCFARLANE, not Liefeld, who came up with Image, so there goes that one.

 

What planet are you two insufficiently_thoughtful_persons living on? Go research some of the wildly_fanciful_statement you're trying to shovel. This is a complete fallacy.

 

Liefeld solicited a comic called Berserkers, a ripoff of X-Force, that was going to be released through Malibu at the same time he was doing XF. Marvel went berserk and threatened to sue and fire him.

 

Liefeld talked to McFarlane, explained what he was doing, and it snowballed from there. The entire thing started from Liefeld. McFarlane had already quit Marvel and was playing daddy, completely unsure what he was doing next.

 

And I can name 50 people who are more important to comics in the last 25 years than Rob Liefeld.

 

Here, let's start:

 

Alex Ross

Neil Gaiman

Grant Morrison

Jim Lee

Karen Berger

Ron Perelman (ugh)

Steve Geppi

Brian Michael Bendis

Robert Kirkman

Geoff Johns

 

etc...etc...etc...

 

Are you kidding me? You've mostly named a list of popular current writers and a hack artist who was popular for a few years for doing photo reference paintings. There are plenty of great artists and writers throughout history, but the vast majority of them could have vanished and things wouldn't have changed.

 

The only ones on this list that belong are the ones who truly changed the landscape of comics.

 

Lee and Berger arguments could be made for but even Berger is too small in the grand scheme, working at a single company. Lee at least created Wildstorm, ran multiple studios, then took over DC. The same argument could be made for Johns and Quesada. Perelman sadly belongs as well, and an argument could be made for Geppi.

 

Your perspective is utterly, utterly off.

 

Karen Berger is responsible for Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison (among others) working at DC. Karen Berger CREATED Vertigo.

 

 

But this only solidifies my position - Geppi, Perelman, and Liefeld are 3 that are villains in this list, who may not have changed comics for the better but certainly influenced it hugely.

 

Liefeld has had 1/100th the impact on the comics industry that Geppi and Perelman had.

 

Seriously....stop already. You don't know what you're talking about, you know *just enough* to sound like you do, and you keep digging yourself a deeper and deeper and deeper hole.

 

Because you keep making absurd arguments and making mess up!

 

You put your foot in your mouth and immediately follow it up with your own insults and claiming "everything you say is a strawman argument".

 

I've never run across such a broken record.