Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221

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I personally think the book is NOT TRIMMED as well. Twice it was found to be blue, only once was it found purple.

 

That was likely the REAL error that CGC made, and because of their lack of accountability, could feed Dan the "Everyone looked at it" line which is spruious and completely unproveable.

 

Leaving him with no recourse but to sell it purple.

 

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

 

 

As they say on storage wars.....

 

YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPP

While we are patting ourselves on the back......

I'm with the crowd that is more concerned with the grade changes. I usually think restored books are undergraded, but that JIM had a big crease. It looked nice, however, 6.0 was a stretch. 7.0 was downright scary.

 

To be fair you never had the book in hand.

 

While that crease is ugly, that certainly doesn't make a 7.0 totally impossible. The inside is nearly perfect, and the back cover is really nice. If grading was based solely how the cover looks, then I would agree with you

 

It's a 6.5 Universal IMO

Here is a link to CGC's updated response

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7634489#Post7634489

yah, I believed you from the beginning, and i still dont believe what they told you with the so called "everyone in the building comment".

People are acting like that other thread clears the air, when what it actual is, is a confession of complete and total guilt, from the beginning, of everything mentioned in this thread.

They got it wrong, essentially BS'd you and forced you to eat the purple to try and hide the mistake, the book got correctly graded again, they came on here after the out cry and said "its definitely purple for sure", to try and make it go away, along with all the company men attack dogs going at anyone who raised any points or questions....

all to try and now say, whoops, no big deal, it is blue.

A handful of people realize the big deal wasnt that a mistake was made, but the complete lack of accountability, and the borderline straight up lying, that is the issue.

If this was a PGX tale, their'd already be somebody hosting a "personal" website immortalizing the details. But here, its all poo-poo'd as no big thing. They really need to have a long term view towards some type of accountability in their business. Doing the Apple route of making your customers choke on it, cause you can, doesnt end well for any company (like it wont for Apple).

yah, I believed you from the beginning, and i still dont believe what they told you with the so called "everyone in the building comment".

 

People are acting like that other thread clears the air, when what it actual is, is a confession of complete and total guilt, from the beginning, of everything mentioned in this thread.

 

They got it wrong, essentially BS'd you and forced you to eat the purple to try and hide the mistake, the book got correctly graded again, they came on here after the out cry and said "its definitely purple for sure", to try and make it go away, along with all the company men attack dogs going at anyone who raised any points or questions....

 

all to try and now say, whoops, no big deal, it is blue.

 

A handful of people realize the big deal wasnt that a mistake was made, but the complete lack of accountability, and the borderline straight up lying, that is the issue.

 

If this was a PGX tale, their'd already be somebody hosting a "personal" website immortalizing the details. But here, its all poo-poo'd as no big thing. They really need to have a long term view towards some type of accountability in their business. Doing the Apple route of making your customers choke on it, cause you can, doesnt end well for any company (like it wont for Apple).

"It leaves the golden goose alone or it gets the hose again"

"It leaves the golden goose alone or it gets the hose again"

Yikes!

Put the friggin' Purple Label in the basket Lady!

The fundamental problem here is that I still don't think we can say with any real confidence whether or not the book was trimmed. CGC is making an educated guess, but that is all it is.

Prices have gotten so crazy that many thousands of dollars now ride on what is essentially a guess.

The question becomes--

What percentage of trimming is CGC missing?

What percentage of trimming that CGC finds is actually not there?

If those are not tiny percentages, I'm thinking I'd rather just buy a trimmed PLOD and be confident that I'm at least getting what I paid for.

The fundamental problem here is that I still don't think we can say with any real confidence whether or not the book was trimmed. CGC is making an educated guess, but that is all it is.

 

Prices have gotten so crazy that many thousands of dollars now ride on what is essentially a guess.

 

The question becomes--

 

What percentage of trimming is CGC missing?

 

What percentage of trimming that CGC finds is actually not there?

 

If those are not tiny percentages, I'm thinking I'd rather just buy a trimmed PLOD and be confident that I'm at least getting what I paid for.

 

small typo, but I fixed it for ya (thumbs u

I'm thinking I'd rather just buy a trimmed PLOD and be confident that I'm at least getting what I paid for.

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

Shame my backside! That's precisely what it was, nothing but a business decision. But guess what? Some of us are fed up to here with those who treat comics as nothing but a business. If you're going to play the crack and resubmit game, you better be prepared to lose some of the time. And don't you come crying to this board to get sympathy. Most of us will just snicker.

Admittedly, CGC got it very wrong somewhere this time. Well guess what? You're paying for their subjective opinion. It's going to be wrong, very wrong, a lot of the time. Them's the breaks. The submitter paid for their subjective opinion. He got it, and that's that. CGC makes no warranties other than that they make an unbiased best call. CGC owes the thread starter nothing.

The lesson to the rest of us though is to be very careful about overpaying for a slabbed comic because of the number on the label. That number doesn't come down from God. There's a large random element in its assignment, and it's subject to change.

- I sent in 2 books to CGC. One was a Journey into Mystery 83 that was previously graded 6.0 Universal by CGC.

 

If the Journey into Mystery 83 had already been graded, why did you need to send it in to be graded again?

 

 

That is not the question, it had been or it had not been.

- I sent in 2 books to CGC. One was a Journey into Mystery 83 that was previously graded 6.0 Universal by CGC.

 

If the Journey into Mystery 83 had already been graded, why did you need to send it in to be graded again?

 

 

The crack and resub game - hope for a better grade.

- I sent in 2 books to CGC. One was a Journey into Mystery 83 that was previously graded 6.0 Universal by CGC.

 

If the Journey into Mystery 83 had already been graded, why did you need to send it in to be graded again?

 

 

 

The crack and resub game - hope for a better grade.

Yeah. And he'll get no sympathy from me on that account. Do that, and you better be prepared to lose some of the time. Sure, CGC messed up big time in this instance. So what else is new? That's happened before, and it will happen again.

P.S. I edited my original post to make my point very clear while you were responding.

Trimming is difficult to spot and anyone that remembers CGC erring on the side of caution after the Ewert scandal and wrongly classifying some books as trimmed that were not, should not be surprised at these events.

 

My feeling after reading the initial thread was exactly this. That CGC had found one key book with an unequivical color touch and made an error in determining that the companion key book was also "restored" with a trim.

 

I almost bought the restored J.I.M. #83 myself from Spider-Dan's recent thread I was so confident it could come back clean on a re-sub, but it's the ethical questions we are now debating that made me pass for the sake of a few thousand profit.

 

After the first thread CGC had graded this book correctly once and incorrectly once.

 

If anything they have potentially now improved on those stats, by getting it right twice (blue label) and wrong once (purple label).

 

The more troubling parts of this are the timing of the recent submission, with someone trying to game the system, and the nature of the thorough review that CGC gave the book in the purple holder.

 

To save me repeating myself in the light of the new announcement.

Anybody who tells you different has skin in the game.

Anyone who says CGC's grades are looser now obviously has skin in the game. How else would you know they are looser? It's plain from your comments that you have been taking advantage of CGC's services. And if they are giving you looser grades there is obviously some shenanigans going on on your part. What have you done to grease the wheels and get looser grades?

 

(Isn't it amazing how all of that irrelevant wildly_fanciful_statement could be gleaned from one stupid post? )

 

Here is my counter overblown, hyperbolic, pompous windbag statement - Anyone who thinks that having "skin in the game" negates your comments obviously has either 1) more "skin in the game" than you, or 2) an inability to have a reasonable adult conversation. Yep, I just called the Telepath a bunch of mean names. But I have "skin in the game" so they shouldn't mean anything to him.

Just for your information, Richard, I have not personally, or as part of Comicana Direct, submitted a single book.

Ever.

All submission have been on behalf of customers.

Hope that this doesn't spoil your fun.

I don't have 221 pages in this thread.

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

 

Shame my backside! That's precisely what it was, nothing but a business decision. But guess what? Some of us are fed up to here with those who treat comics as nothing but a business.

 

Really?!? Do you BUY your comics? I wonder where from?

Does your LCS treat comics as a business? Shame on them!

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

 

Shame my backside! That's precisely what it was, nothing but a business decision. But guess what? Some of us are fed up to here with those who treat comics as nothing but a business.

 

 

Really?!? Do you BUY your comics? I wonder where from?

 

Does your LCS treat comics as a business? Shame on them!

 

It's a bit crass to cherry pick his statement in the out of context manner you did, and imply there's anything screwy about it. He's specifically talking about the crack, (with or without a press) and resubmit play, which you conveniently omitted. Regardless of whether you see the trend of hobby demand shrinking on anything outside the 10-15 books everyone wants as being problematic, it certainly is telling to see the voracious appetites of those trying to game the system, especially when you look at how the timeline of this situation began on Valentines Day with your post and ended with Paul's post three days ago, and how it's allowed the community to see the exact same book resubbed three times in the space of two months. If this were a drug, someone would have already intervened and warned of the addiction potential.

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

 

Shame my backside! That's precisely what it was, nothing but a business decision. But guess what? Some of us are fed up to here with those who treat comics as nothing but a business.

 

 

Really?!? Do you BUY your comics? I wonder where from?

 

Does your LCS treat comics as a business? Shame on them!

 

 

It's a bit crass to cherry pick his statement in the out of context manner you did, and imply there's anything screwy about it. He's specifically talking about the crack, (with or without a press) and resubmit play, which you conveniently omitted. Regardless of whether you see the trend of hobby demand shrinking on anything outside the 10-15 books everyone wants as being problematic, it certainly is telling to see the voracious appetites of those trying to game the system, especially when you look at how the timeline of this situation began on Valentines Day with your post and ended with Paul's post three days ago, and how it's allowed the community to see the exact same book resubbed three times in the space of two months. If this were a drug, someone would have already intervened and warned of the addiction potential.

Don't you think its a little crass to say "If you're going to play the crack and resubmit game, you better be prepared to lose some of the time. And don't you come crying to this board to get sympathy. Most of us will just snicker" (I did leave that part out)

Im not looking for sympathy. I brought this to the attention of a community of people who I thought might want to know about it.

Also, KUDOS to him for being an upstanding business man in doing so.

 

SHAME on all the people who try to attack the buyer for resubbing it as if there is something unusual or untoward with taking an obvious and logical action

 

Shame my backside! That's precisely what it was, nothing but a business decision. But guess what? Some of us are fed up to here with those who treat comics as nothing but a business.

 

 

Really?!? Do you BUY your comics? I wonder where from?

 

Does your LCS treat comics as a business? Shame on them!

 

 

It's a bit crass to cherry pick his statement in the out of context manner you did, and imply there's anything screwy about it. He's specifically talking about the crack, (with or without a press) and resubmit play, which you conveniently omitted. Regardless of whether you see the trend of hobby demand shrinking on anything outside the 10-15 books everyone wants as being problematic, it certainly is telling to see the voracious appetites of those trying to game the system, especially when you look at how the timeline of this situation began on Valentines Day with your post and ended with Paul's post three days ago, and how it's allowed the community to see the exact same book resubbed three times in the space of two months. If this were a drug, someone would have already intervened and warned of the addiction potential.

 

Don't you think its a little crass to say "If you're going to play the crack and resubmit game, you better be prepared to lose some of the time. And don't you come crying to this board to get sympathy. Most of us will just snicker" (I did leave that part out)

Im not looking for sympathy. I brought this to the attention of a community of people who I thought might want to know about it.

While I appreciate you posting about the matter, the situation and result is too convoluted to really come out of this thinking anything was gained.

As for your disagreement in Hep's comments, there will always be a baseline sentiment that thwarts any thought of looking at comics as a commodity or investment. I don't think anything will change this, even when it's a situation where it seems the little guy won.

Overall, I'm glad you got the resolution you deserved, but the whole situation leaves my confidence more shaken learning this incident happened, especially knowing there was a need for this book to be graded multiple times to get it right.