CGC Case Indentations

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Some pics of affected slabs:

I don't think "re-holder" is the right terminology. Re-holders work for the correction of errors or damaged outer cases. This is neither. This is a defective inner well. Thus, it is not a simple re-holder, and adds another layer of complexity to the matter.

 

During a reholder they also replace the inner well and the micro chamber paper as well. It is true that there would be no point in getting a reholder if they have yet to correct the issue. I made this quite clear in several previous comments.

 

You are wrong about this. Re holder is only the outer shell. If they have to open the inner well it gets regarded.

Once again what is 'regarded?' You are incorrect, as they do remove the book and change the micro chamber paper. You are welcome to call CGC to confirm or you can continue on your 'suicide crusade of misinformation' against me. If you say it enough times it still does not make it true.

Anyone know where we are on this?

Anyone know where we are on this?

to sum the entire thread: several people have complained, called, and expressed discontent. CGCs response: it's part of the process. no recommendation for changing their process

that about wraps it up with a little back and forth arguments here and there about whose right/wrong

Anyone know where we are on this?

 

to sum the entire thread: several people have complained, called, and expressed discontent. CGCs response: it's part of the process. no recommendation for changing their process

 

that about wraps it up with a little back and forth arguments here and there about whose right/wrong

Seems as if, though, the problem had gotten worse last year. I was wondering whether anyone who has received slabs lately had any thoughts on whether the prevalence of the problem had changed.

Anyone know where we are on this?

 

to sum the entire thread: several people have complained, called, and expressed discontent. CGCs response: it's part of the process. no recommendation for changing their process

 

that about wraps it up with a little back and forth arguments here and there about whose right/wrong

 

Seems as if, though, the problem had gotten worse last year. I was wondering whether anyone who has received slabs lately had any thoughts on whether the prevalence of the problem had changed.

Checked my last two submissions. Out of 28 books, 14 with significant puddling, 14 without. I don't know if anyone else has observed this, but NONE of my moderns (7 books) had puddling.

I also looked over all my old label books - a total of 13. None had puddling as pictured and commonly discussed here. Three had the similar issue where the "indentation" is much larger, fainter and along the outer edge of the book.Instead of a distinct circle or blob, on those three it's more like a fainter rectangle

It's clearly a quality control issue that has become worse. And quality control is the right term. Because appearance is a QC concern.

I just sold a slab on eBay that had the indent we see here and no issue from the buyer. I'm happy to report.

Has anyone received recent slabs back from CGC that can speak to whether this issue seems to be persisting or diminishing?

thanks,

Jelani

I just got 11 books from Rich Henn, I can't say how many total books he sent or how many were affected, but none of mine have the puddle.

Recently graded?

Recently graded?

Five books shipped from CGC 1/13/14. One with significant puddling. Four with little or none.

As I noted with my 1/8/14 post, moderns seem less likely to have this.

I've only read the first page and last page of this thread, so I may have missed something. Does anyone think that this is just the latest batch (a bad batch) of inner wells that they've received and we'll continue to see this problem until they've used up every last one? Then, after they get their next allotment, the issue will likely be over?

I have not seen too many new slabs with the puddling I have seen in the past. I have looked at some books graded all the way back to 2008 and I see some puddling but not as severe and the indentation, in some cases, is almost as large as the inner well. Maybe the bad batch has been used up and they complained to the manufacturer.

Does anyone has pictures of books graded within the last month still exhibiting deep indentations and ripples?

I have not seen too many new slabs with the puddling I have seen in the past. I have looked at some books graded all the way back to 2008 and I see some puddling but not as severe and the indentation, in some cases, is almost as large as the inner well. Maybe the bad batch has been used up and they complained to the manufacturer.

 

Does anyone has pictures of books graded within the last month still exhibiting deep indentations and ripples?

Their response, as I remember (it may be in the CG thread), was that these indentations have always been there. But, as noted, they seem to have been much worse last year leading to speculation that they had received a bad batch of inner wells.

With luck, they have now used up that batch and we are back to the previous situation of intermittent, small indentations.

It is disappointing that they never gave a full explanation. You can speculate that to have admitted that they were indeed dealing with a bad batch of inner wells would have left them liable to a very costly situation with many people returning books to be reslabbed.

I have not seen too many new slabs with the puddling I have seen in the past. I have looked at some books graded all the way back to 2008 and I see some puddling but not as severe and the indentation, in some cases, is almost as large as the inner well. Maybe the bad batch has been used up and they complained to the manufacturer.

 

Does anyone has pictures of books graded within the last month still exhibiting deep indentations and ripples?

 

Their response, as I remember (it may be in the CG thread), was that these indentations have always been there. But, as noted, they seem to have been much worse last year leading to speculation that they had received a bad batch of inner wells.

 

With luck, they have now used up that batch and we are back to the previous situation of intermittent, small indentations.

 

It is disappointing that they never gave a full explanation. You can speculate that to have admitted that they were indeed dealing with a bad batch of inner wells would have left them liable to a very costly situation with many people returning books to be reslabbed.

Yeah, likely this is the case and they just created this "puddling" term and said it's been around forever. Uh huh.

I have not seen too many new slabs with the puddling I have seen in the past. I have looked at some books graded all the way back to 2008 and I see some puddling but not as severe and the indentation, in some cases, is almost as large as the inner well. Maybe the bad batch has been used up and they complained to the manufacturer.

 

Does anyone has pictures of books graded within the last month still exhibiting deep indentations and ripples?

 

Their response, as I remember (it may be in the CG thread), was that these indentations have always been there. But, as noted, they seem to have been much worse last year leading to speculation that they had received a bad batch of inner wells.

 

With luck, they have now used up that batch and we are back to the previous situation of intermittent, small indentations.

 

It is disappointing that they never gave a full explanation. You can speculate that to have admitted that they were indeed dealing with a bad batch of inner wells would have left them liable to a very costly situation with many people returning books to be reslabbed.

Having worked a few years in the plastics industry, I am fairly certain this does not relate to a "bad batch" of inner holders. Barex is sold in rolls as a film of vary thicknesses. Barex was selected as the inner holder material both for it relatively inert properties AND it's easy of sealing. Mylar is more archival and inert, but melts at a much higher temperature. CGC is encapsulating the books in the inner holder themselves using bulk film off commercial size rolls. This allows them to custom make the inner holder for different size and thickness of books to fit in any of their standard size holders.

If it was truly a contracted provider supply them with unsightly inner holders, they would send them back in a heartbeat. They don't send them back because the puddling is happening during their sealing process, when heat (direct heat or sonic) is applied. The problem is most certainly CGC's, at the encapsulation stage.

It's been a long time since I worked in plastics - and packaging was not my specialty. But there are steps they should be - probably have - taken to figure this out. They must be buying tons of Barex, so they should be talking to the manufacturer because they will know every last in and out in packaging with their material. So too should they be looking at the encapsulation machinery, working with whoever manufactures it. Have temps slipped up? Are the guides not holding everything just perfect? Do you have new operators?

Puddling as it's being spoke of here is virtually unknown from years ago. There are slabs with some indentations, but they run along the edge - just what you'd expect from heating the plastic to melt it and seal it.

Some of the recent posts here have been encouraging, so I'm going to give CGC another go and will let everyone know what comes back. I sent a large number of books to Joey a couple weeks ago, and I'm looking forward to his pressing service based on all the great reviews. I'm hoping CGC has finally made headway on the puddling issue.

I've only read the first page and last page of this thread, so I may have missed something. Does anyone think that this is just the latest batch (a bad batch) of inner wells that they've received and we'll continue to see this problem until they've used up every last one? Then, after they get their next allotment, the issue will likely be over?

I haven't been subbing as frequently lately, but the ones that have been returning have no puddling ranging from silver to modern ages

So what ever happened to this issue? It didn't disappear, so is there some other consensus now that the puddling isn't a problem anymore?