How to spot restoration....?

17 17

i just bought a fantastic four #1 on ebay....it looked good online - maybe at least a 4 or 5, and the buy it now was 2600.....but as we all know it was too good to be true.

it was hard for me to spot restoration, but cgc caught it. color retouch, spine split sealed, staples replaced, tears sealed...basically the book was completely taken apart, retouched, and put back together.

on the plus side, it graded a 6.5 - and even better, "only" moderate (a). so still a good deal id say. at least break even.

probably put it up for sale, i saw a 6.0 go on ebay for over 6K, and the proceeds will go towards a blue label.

i wouldnt mind restored copies so much, if everyone else didnt hate them so much along with their PLOD.

Didn't you do the same thing with an AF 15?

ok so I've received my blacklight in the mail today, went to a pitch black room and nothing on the AF15 lit up (although lots of stuff on the carpet glow radiocatively ) .

 

Thread on black lights

 

So I talked to Brent at QualityComix and he says he didnt use a black light but he saw bleed through like from magic marker.

 

My question is: Wouldnt magic marker glow in the blacklight?

 

I opened the inside front cover and the top edge looked like bleed through, but I looked closer and the areas on the top edge were not colored on the other side. In fact they were lighter. It was almost as if the paper had chipped away from the inside cover, but the purple colored paper on the top from the outside was still there. So I dont think there was bleed through... any thoughts?

 

IIRC black inks do not show up under balck light. If it is paint...maybe. Black CT is usually spotted by feel or your eye.

i just bought a fantastic four #1 on ebay....it looked good online - maybe at least a 4 or 5, and the buy it now was 2600.....but as we all know it was too good to be true.

it was hard for me to spot restoration, but cgc caught it. color retouch, spine split sealed, staples replaced, tears sealed...basically the book was completely taken apart, retouched, and put back together.

on the plus side, it graded a 6.5 - and even better, "only" moderate (a). so still a good deal id say. at least break even.

probably put it up for sale, i saw a 6.0 go on ebay for over 6K, and the proceeds will go towards a blue label.

i wouldnt mind restored copies so much, if everyone else didnt hate them so much along with their PLOD.

You shouldn’t be so influenced by others to the point you’re not even free to judge freely what "restoration" means to you, trying to be objective. In fact, I did just the opposite as In replaced my FF #3 with a copy with slight color touches.

They do not constitute any kind of "restoration" to me, although I may dislike them if they become heavy.

If you have West telling you something, I'd listen. Aside from the guy who actually did the resto to the book, you're not going to get a more qualified opinion on it.

 

This is truly sage advice. After having read everything in the thread you linked to, as well as the PGM thread I'm even more convinced that I dodged a bullet.

Thanks again for your input, and the input of all others aimed at helping me avoid potential disasters with that seller.

If you have West telling you something, I'd listen. Aside from the guy who actually did the resto to the book, you're not going to get a more qualified opinion on it.

 

 

This is truly sage advice. After having read everything in the thread you linked to, as well as the PGM thread I'm even more convinced that I dodged a bullet.

Thanks again for your input, and the input of all others aimed at helping me avoid potential disasters with that seller.

I'm glad you got your money back. That really was the best case scenario for you.

You were wise to come here asking questions. The folks here can sniff out a turd in a rose garden.

 

I'm glad you got your money back. That really was the best case scenario for you.

You were wise to come here asking questions. The folks here can sniff out a turd in a rose garden.

 

QFT ^. I've gotten potentially saved 2x in the last day by the folks on these boards. First scenario was that Hulk 181.....second was the confirmation that the auction I won last evening for the first print of TMNT #1 was indeed a legitimate first printing....so no tears...just celebrating!!!

I think you played an instrumental roll in that thread about the print differences as well.

I could have been screwed over in a multiplicity of different ways, but the advice here is priceless!

Party on, Garth.

I saw this and well no better way to see restoration than compare to a known restored example. Please see my post below and look at links...

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6615622#Post6615622

sort of...that AF15 was claimed no resto, but was trimmed. i returned for a full refund, then bought a nice 7.0 restored AF15 from a boardie - for much less than the undisclosed trimmed 5.0

havent made quite as obvious a mistake again....blame it on being a newbie.

although now im focusing on golden age, so try to be more careful.

youre correct, now i just buy what i feel id like. im hoping one day the market will be less harsh on restored comics. but then again, it doesnt matter since i never end up selling any of these comics anyway.

great tips very helpful

Even though I have a black light and feel pretty comfortable I can spot most restoration except very well done trimming or very slight high end pro work, I personally have a hard time paying over a grand or so on books not CGC graded as the blue label takes away the doubt and ebay is a 50/50 gamble as even some honest sellers miss the resto on raw Key books they buy when it is slight/mod and very well done. I know the lure of a below market price on a raw ebay book is tempting, but I have had and heard of enough bad experiences to know it is risky gamble on getting an undisclosed restored book with big dollars on the line and I am just not that much of a gambling man.

On the subject of trimming - I recently bought a book that had been taken out of a purple label case. I have since found the exact book in a heritage auction (still in the case) from 2003. Now, the label didn't mention trimming, but the first thing that made me suspicious about the book was that the artwork comes very close to the edge of the page on most pages (with some of the speech balloons getting cut off the side of the page); but also, on close inspection, many of the page edges have a very tiny fold right along the edge. So, I guess I have two questions for the experts:

1) Did cgc do a good job of detecting trimming on or prior to 2003? That is, if a book was slabbed during or prior to 2003, can we feel safe that cgc was vigilant about detecting trimming as they are now? Because, like I said, the label made no mention of trimming, but it sure looks trimmed.

2) Is a little microfold along many page edges a reliable sign of trimming?

Greetings

 

I've finally decided that it's time to post to these forums (long overdue some might add). In regards to FF's question about shortwave UV light for detection of restoration, here is an explanation of how UV radiation works from UVP's catalog:

 

"An interesting characteristic of UV radiation occurs when it falls upon certain substances known as phosphors, wehre it causes the phosphors to emit specific radiation. This phenomenon is known as fluorescence. "

 

"One effect of UV energy upon certain substances is a phenomenon that takes place at the atomic level. High frequency UV protons collide with atoms and part of the photon's energy is transferred to the atoms by boosting electrons to the high energy states. Upon de-excitation, as electrons fall back to lower energy states, energy is released as photons of light. Since only a portion of the incoming photon's energy was transferred to an electron, these emitted photon's have less energy than the incoming UV photons so their wavelengths are longer than the excitation photons. This process is called fluorescence."

 

I would think that shortwave would work just as well at detection of restored areas as longwave, but due to the extreme health hazard shortwave poses (we are talking waves in the vicinity of x-rays!!!) the gains wouldn't outweigh the health concerns.

 

Tracey Heft

Eclipse Paper Conservation

 

i think you mean 'photons'

I have several old lables and there are 1 or 2 I suspect of colour touching.

Here's a question lets say I crack a Blue Label 7.0 and find color touch or at least what appears to be CT on a black portion of the cover. Could I send the book to CGC for prescreen to tell me if it was CT or just some sort of printers ink.

I am on the fence whether to remove the CT or if it is CT. Will they tell me if it will get Blue or Purple label. The worst part is the book was upgradeable with a clean and press

Here's a question lets say I crack a Blue Label 7.0 and find color touch or at least what appears to be CT on a black portion of the cover. Could I send the book to CGC for prescreen to tell me if it was CT or just some sort of printers ink.

 

I am on the fence whether to remove the CT or if it is CT. Will they tell me if it will get Blue or Purple label. The worst part is the book was upgradeable with a clean and press

If you had left it in the slab, CGC probably would have checked it for free.

Out of the slab, you can probably send it to CCS, the pressing/resto side of CGC for an evaluation.

Well its is with a Pro and they found what appears to be obvious resto, they are calling CGC to figure out the plan of attack.

I have noticed that some trimmed books are getting jagged top covers as to make it imperfect since books are being checked for perfectly trimmed covers.

I have a question, when is a cover being cleaned considered resto and when is it just like a press and does not lead to a Purple label?

Thanks,

-Kystix