Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 12911
Loc: Beyond The Horizon
....this is a subject frequently discussed on the boards, but i thought it would be good to start up a knowledge base on the subject.................
.......some resto i find hard to detect my self (especially trimming) and would appreciate some input from those with more experience...........
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"There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." -Johann Sebastian Bach
Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 12911
Loc: Beyond The Horizon
...........obviously, restoration is more prevalent in gold books, but really applies to all ages of books..............(even moderns??? )
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"There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." -Johann Sebastian Bach
Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 23374
Loc: Perv Toy Row, San Francisco, C...
1) Black light - yep - but do it in as dark a room as you can and edge the book towards the black light source and very slowly rotate it.
2) Trimmed. If you press the book flat on a hard smooth surface and look along the edge, if the edges are all even the book HAS been trimmed. If you still think the book is trimmed after it passes this test then open the book up to the centerfol. Try very gently pressing it flat and see if there are signs of cutting (lighter edge colors, slight roughness, differences in overall color)
3) Get a good ground glass loupe. Examine the staple area. See if the depressions match the staples. See if slightly darker (aka metallic) stains match where the staples are now. Then ignore the impressions on the inside pages and look to where the stapels are embedded in the book. Be sure they align with the depressions on the TOP pages.
4) Take special care with the centerfold. Examine it carefully for replacement or reinforcement. Slight areas that have different reflectivity can indicate archival tape or japan paper.
5) Check for any color from the cover that has bled into the pages below or the back of the cover. Thi8s can indicate magic marker ::shudder:: desecration.
6) Examine the inside back and front covers for a green ink transfer stain. If it appears mottled it has proabbly been subject to removal but has proved too extensive for total removal. If you find this is the case, re-examine the staples VERY carefully as ink transfer removal generally means dismantling.
7) FEEL the surface of the book. Should it have a gloss cover? If so does it feel slightly slick or dioes it feel slightly rough? If rough again angle it to a light and see if it appears matted. That could be age or it could be a wet wash.
8) Then examine the inside cover. If it seems unnaturally white with a slightly rough "tooth" to it, It may have been "float rinsed".
9) Examine the corners and and the staple areas for a slight dulling or difference in reflectivity. This can again indicate archival tape or japan paper as in step 4 above.
10) Check for white paper areas that are whiter than the immedate areas. That could be leaf forming.
11) Try to get either the same book or a book an issue or two above and below. Check the height of the book. If the book you are looking at is unnaturally thcik, it could have been subject to methyl cellulose vacuum impregnation probably followed by a freeze-dry process (unprobable in all but the pricier books as the costy of this equipment is slightly prohibitive).
Registered: 07/26/02
Posts: 12911
Loc: Beyond The Horizon
..........fantastic, that's really helpful info povertyrow..............
......thats actually the first time i've heard about a way to detect trimming that didn't involve measuring the comic (which seems unreliable)...............
........i will test it on two books i have that i suspect might be trimmed............
_________________________
"There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself." -Johann Sebastian Bach
Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 23374
Loc: Perv Toy Row, San Francisco, C...
......thats actually the first time i've heard about a way to detect trimming that didn't involve measuring the comic (which seems unreliable)...............
Yep - as you say that is unreliable due to printer's innacuracies. The thing is that in trimming, when a book is cut properly, the closer you get to the centerfold the WIDER the pages are. Now some folks who know this will try trimming by holding the book open at the centerfiold and pressing it as flat as they can. Then they will razor the edge. Repeat for the other side. This is harder to detect because once the book is folded back. the inner pages actually WILL be longer.
A classically untrimmed book, when the book is folded shut and held to the light, will usually show a slight triangle with the tip of the triangle being the centerfold.
A book trimmed in the manner I described above will also show the slight triangle, but, especially depending on when the trimming is done, will show a lighter color on the edges than the flat of the pages. A definiftely suspicious thing.
(edited - replaced "shorter - which is incorrect - with WIDER - which is correct)
Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 23374
Loc: Perv Toy Row, San Francisco, C...
What triangle are you referring to?
The inner pages of the book are slightly wider than the outer pages. So if you look along the long edge (opposite the spine) of a book you will see a slight "tip" at the centerfold that sticks out a bit more than the rest of the pages. If there is a slight spoine roll you can see this more readily. You may also notice a slight "fanning" along either side of the centerfold as the successive pages get justa titch shorter as you appraoch the cover.
If someone trims a book by keeping it closed and just slicing a bit of the long edge, suddenly all the pages are trimmed flat and when you look along the long edge it will be like looking down the edge of a paperback book. Just a flat even surface.
#7266 - 09/28/0202:16 PMRe: How to spot restoration....?
[Re: Povertyrow]
fantastic_fourfantastic_four Just far far too long without a custom title. Really. Seriously now. 2002?
TOTAL NEWBIE
Registered: 03/29/02
Posts: 19711
Loc: the Baxter Building, Virginia
A good comparison I've found is to think about a Sunday edition newspaper. When you look at a Sunday paper, the interior sections stick out up top in a similar but more exaggerated way than the inner wraps on a comic stick out on the side.
Great info, povertyrow! Where'd you learn so much about the topic, just by chatting with other collectors? I strongly believe that if someone would get an EXTREMELY detailed guide to restoration detection out, a lot of the mistaken impressions that people have about restoration would start to go away. Restoration has gotten a bad reputation over the last 5-10 years because of all the slight-restoring greedy idiots trying to make 8.0 to 9.0 comics look like 9.4 to 9.8 without disclosing the work having been done. Once high-grade collectors are able to assess that kind of work having been done, I strongly feel that the market for restored comics will begin to recover a bit. In today's market, 99.5% of collectors are clueless about restoration detection. And quite often the way they discover the need for it is when they learn that a comic they shelled out Overstreet NM or better money for is really only worth half of what they paid!
Steve Borock said that the majority of the restoration they see is of the slight variety on books that didn't need it in the first place. That kind of work is almost ALWAYS done out of greed by people who rely upon the ignorance of others. Once the mass ignorance of restoration detection starts to go away, the negative feelings about restoration hopefully will also.
I've talked with Tracey Heft and Matt Nelson about educating others about restoration detection, and they both generally agree...they both said they wanted to contribute to the upcoming Overstreet Grading Guide revision. And I PLEADED with Blumberg to allow and encourage those guys to include VERY detailed info about it. The sooner that happens, the sooner restored comics will lose their bad rep!
) 
u won't be able to catch all the color touches or reinforcement that cgc can w/ their black light scan bed. 
