PROBATION DISCUSSIONS

21 21

Voting ended today. Menace is in the HOS.

 

compostable_fertilizer.

So create a poll to have him removed from the HoS.

Kiss my .

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just not that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

You tell him Harmon.

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

 

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

 

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

 

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

This is a great idea. ^

I just saw Menace's name added and please forgive me as I don't know all of the facts. I was waiting for someone to reply to Bosco with a link to the summary. But from my time here, I always thought the HOS was reserved for the truly nefarious. Now it is definitely losing it's bite as someone seems to be added every few weeks lately. I think when someone will be nominated to the HOS since it is a much bigger deal than the PL, it should be in CG with a "Menace HOS Nomination" thread.

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

 

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

 

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

 

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

It might be a lack of experience or perspective, as many of the folks advocating most strongly for HOS in the last couple of incidents were not even here for most of the HOS member's inductions much less witnessed their actions first hand.

That might be the disconnect as if they don't realize there were full on 5 figures scams and criminal acts amongst those earlier inductees they make think that the PL list is a "jerk list" and the HOS is a "mega jerk list"

The red rocks and solarcadet inductions were the furthest afield we'd traveled. It departed from flat out theft and wanton forum destruction to more civil issues, borderline fraud, and simply lying. All are bad actions, but the HOS was carved out as a place mostly for those beyond (or not desirous of) rehabilitation. The argument for including those that thumbed their nose at the lies and misdeeds and the forum in general. That made sense. They didn't want to be here, conform to the laws of civility here, and do right by others here, so it was ensured they would get their wish and not be welcome here.

RR and Solar seemed mostly of this ilk. The new breed of unrepentant guys who don't care to conform to the rules set up or to take seriously their duties to others. I get that. It was a stretch from what the HOS started out at, but I got how the discussion went that way.

The Menace situation doesn't give me any sense of why or how this fits in with all the other "rogues". Even if ineffective and slow, he seems to be responding and attempting to fix his issues.

This leap, from Alleybat (for example), to Solarcadet, to Menace seems to have lost something in translation and it doesn't seem for the better.

Just looked at the list again, I witnessed the Thomas Neeley and Red Rocks debacles. Those seemed like major "events" that transpired that everyone on the Boards witnessed. What they did and their actions clearly were HOS worthy.

I know from hearing past stories retold, CAP freak was .

But I have no idea who Menace or The Silver-Age are or what they did?

And really, isn't the reason because the major "events" took place in CG for all to witness so more were involved with the process? HOS nominees should have a dedicated thread in CG.

Kiss my .

How is that going to remove him from the list?

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

 

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

 

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

 

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

 

 

It might be a lack of experience or perspective, as many of the folks advocating most strongly for HOS in the last couple of incidents were not even here for most of the HOS member's inductions much less witnessed their actions first hand.

 

That might be the disconnect as if they don't realize there were full on 5 figures scams and criminal acts amongst those earlier inductees they make think that the PL list is a "jerk list" and the HOS is a "mega jerk list"

 

The red rocks and solarcadet inductions were the furthest afield we'd traveled. It departed from flat out theft and wanton forum destruction to more civil issues, borderline fraud, and simply lying. All are bad actions, but the HOS was carved out as a place mostly for those beyond (or not desirous of) rehabilitation. The argument for including those that thumbed their nose at the lies and misdeeds and the forum in general. That made sense. They didn't want to be here, conform to the laws of civility here, and do right by others here, so it was ensured they would get their wish and not be welcome here.

 

RR and Solar seemed mostly of this ilk. The new breed of unrepentant guys who don't care to conform to the rules set up or to take seriously their duties to others. I get that. It was a stretch from what the HOS started out at, but I got how the discussion went that way.

 

The Menace situation doesn't give me any sense of why or how this fits in with all the other "rogues". Even if ineffective and slow, he seems to be responding and attempting to fix his issues.

 

This leap, from Alleybat (for example), to Solarcadet, to Menace seems to have lost something in translation and it doesn't seem for the better.

Maybe it's time to have a third list? I'm personally tired of these guys who come along and cheat people and only feel remorse and try to make it right because they've been caught or called out.

Kiss my .

 

 

How is that going to remove him from the list?

Maybe it's like the Blarney Stone....it may grant you special powers by kissing it.

Kiss my .

 

 

How is that going to remove him from the list?

 

 

Maybe it's like the Blarney Stone....it may grant you special powers by kissing it.

I might hurt my back bending down that far

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

 

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

 

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

 

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

 

 

It might be a lack of experience or perspective, as many of the folks advocating most strongly for HOS in the last couple of incidents were not even here for most of the HOS member's inductions much less witnessed their actions first hand.

 

That might be the disconnect as if they don't realize there were full on 5 figures scams and criminal acts amongst those earlier inductees they make think that the PL list is a "jerk list" and the HOS is a "mega jerk list"

 

The red rocks and solarcadet inductions were the furthest afield we'd traveled. It departed from flat out theft and wanton forum destruction to more civil issues, borderline fraud, and simply lying. All are bad actions, but the HOS was carved out as a place mostly for those beyond (or not desirous of) rehabilitation. The argument for including those that thumbed their nose at the lies and misdeeds and the forum in general. That made sense. They didn't want to be here, conform to the laws of civility here, and do right by others here, so it was ensured they would get their wish and not be welcome here.

 

RR and Solar seemed mostly of this ilk. The new breed of unrepentant guys who don't care to conform to the rules set up or to take seriously their duties to others. I get that. It was a stretch from what the HOS started out at, but I got how the discussion went that way.

 

The Menace situation doesn't give me any sense of why or how this fits in with all the other "rogues". Even if ineffective and slow, he seems to be responding and attempting to fix his issues.

 

This leap, from Alleybat (for example), to Solarcadet, to Menace seems to have lost something in translation and it doesn't seem for the better.

 

 

Maybe it's time to have a third list? I'm personally tired of these guys who come along and cheat people and only feel remorse and try to make it right because they've been caught or called out.

Perhaps.

Right now we've got a "make things right" list and a "burn in the fires of hell for all eternity" list. We probably need a "relentless anus incapable of empathy and civil dealing" list to fit in between.

And if you had a dedicated thread for the HOS nominee with all transgressions laid out and all arguments for or against induction, if they were inducted into the HOS, you could include a link to the thread next to their name on the list.

Links to the basic storyline and details would be best.

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

 

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

 

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

 

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

 

 

It might be a lack of experience or perspective, as many of the folks advocating most strongly for HOS in the last couple of incidents were not even here for most of the HOS member's inductions much less witnessed their actions first hand.

 

That might be the disconnect as if they don't realize there were full on 5 figures scams and criminal acts amongst those earlier inductees they make think that the PL list is a "jerk list" and the HOS is a "mega jerk list"

 

The red rocks and solarcadet inductions were the furthest afield we'd traveled. It departed from flat out theft and wanton forum destruction to more civil issues, borderline fraud, and simply lying. All are bad actions, but the HOS was carved out as a place mostly for those beyond (or not desirous of) rehabilitation. The argument for including those that thumbed their nose at the lies and misdeeds and the forum in general. That made sense. They didn't want to be here, conform to the laws of civility here, and do right by others here, so it was ensured they would get their wish and not be welcome here.

 

RR and Solar seemed mostly of this ilk. The new breed of unrepentant guys who don't care to conform to the rules set up or to take seriously their duties to others. I get that. It was a stretch from what the HOS started out at, but I got how the discussion went that way.

 

The Menace situation doesn't give me any sense of why or how this fits in with all the other "rogues". Even if ineffective and slow, he seems to be responding and attempting to fix his issues.

 

This leap, from Alleybat (for example), to Solarcadet, to Menace seems to have lost something in translation and it doesn't seem for the better.

 

 

Maybe it's time to have a third list? I'm personally tired of these guys who come along and cheat people and only feel remorse and try to make it right because they've been caught or called out.

 

 

Perhaps.

 

Right now we've got a "make things right" list and a "burn in the fires of hell for all eternity" list. We probably need a "relentless anus incapable of empathy and civil dealing" list to fit in between.

That's what I'm talking about. A registered repeat offender list. How many times have we seen people get on the PL and then decide 5 months later they want to sell again so they make people whole and get removed from the list?

This way a new member can look at this "buyer / seller" beware list and know there may be a chance they'll get screwed because the person has a history.

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

 

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

 

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

 

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

 

It might be a lack of experience or perspective, as many of the folks advocating most strongly for HOS in the last couple of incidents were not even here for most of the HOS member's inductions much less witnessed their actions first hand.

 

That might be the disconnect as if they don't realize there were full on 5 figures scams and criminal acts amongst those earlier inductees they make think that the PL list is a "jerk list" and the HOS is a "mega jerk list"

 

The red rocks and solarcadet inductions were the furthest afield we'd traveled. It departed from flat out theft and wanton forum destruction to more civil issues, borderline fraud, and simply lying. All are bad actions, but the HOS was carved out as a place mostly for those beyond (or not desirous of) rehabilitation. The argument for including those that thumbed their nose at the lies and misdeeds and the forum in general. That made sense. They didn't want to be here, conform to the laws of civility here, and do right by others here, so it was ensured they would get their wish and not be welcome here.

 

RR and Solar seemed mostly of this ilk. The new breed of unrepentant guys who don't care to conform to the rules set up or to take seriously their duties to others. I get that. It was a stretch from what the HOS started out at, but I got how the discussion went that way.

 

The Menace situation doesn't give me any sense of why or how this fits in with all the other "rogues". Even if ineffective and slow, he seems to be responding and attempting to fix his issues.

 

This leap, from Alleybat (for example), to Solarcadet, to Menace seems to have lost something in translation and it doesn't seem for the better.

 

 

Maybe it's time to have a third list? I'm personally tired of these guys who come along and cheat people and only feel remorse and try to make it right because they've been caught or called out.

A--Men brother...I personally was involved with an incident where I only got refunded finally because the seller admitted that if he didn't make it right it would be harder for him to keep selling on the boards...

That's why I'm in total agreement with those who are quick to put someone in the HOS sooner..it helps prevent more scams sooner rather than letting it keep happening over time

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

 

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

 

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

 

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

 

 

It might be a lack of experience or perspective, as many of the folks advocating most strongly for HOS in the last couple of incidents were not even here for most of the HOS member's inductions much less witnessed their actions first hand.

 

That might be the disconnect as if they don't realize there were full on 5 figures scams and criminal acts amongst those earlier inductees they make think that the PL list is a "jerk list" and the HOS is a "mega jerk list"

 

The red rocks and solarcadet inductions were the furthest afield we'd traveled. It departed from flat out theft and wanton forum destruction to more civil issues, borderline fraud, and simply lying. All are bad actions, but the HOS was carved out as a place mostly for those beyond (or not desirous of) rehabilitation. The argument for including those that thumbed their nose at the lies and misdeeds and the forum in general. That made sense. They didn't want to be here, conform to the laws of civility here, and do right by others here, so it was ensured they would get their wish and not be welcome here.

 

RR and Solar seemed mostly of this ilk. The new breed of unrepentant guys who don't care to conform to the rules set up or to take seriously their duties to others. I get that. It was a stretch from what the HOS started out at, but I got how the discussion went that way.

 

The Menace situation doesn't give me any sense of why or how this fits in with all the other "rogues". Even if ineffective and slow, he seems to be responding and attempting to fix his issues.

 

This leap, from Alleybat (for example), to Solarcadet, to Menace seems to have lost something in translation and it doesn't seem for the better.

 

 

Maybe it's time to have a third list? I'm personally tired of these guys who come along and cheat people and only feel remorse and try to make it right because they've been caught or called out.

 

 

Perhaps.

 

Right now we've got a "make things right" list and a "burn in the fires of hell for all eternity" list. We probably need a "relentless anus incapable of empathy and civil dealing" list to fit in between.

 

That's what I'm talking about. A registered repeat offender list. How many times have we seen people get on the PL and then decide 5 months later they want to sell again so they make people whole and get removed from the list?

 

This way a new member can look at this "buyer / seller" beware list and know there may be a chance they'll get screwed because the person has a history.

If someone goes on the PL put a ( ) next to their name with a number..it can represent how many times they we're put on the PL...could be a helpful step in the right direction

As much as I am critical of Menace's handling of communication and fulfillment of duties in all the matters that came to light, I can't help but feel that adding him to a list of people who are actual thieves is an error that, in retrospect, will be the moment when this type of list "jumped the shark" into irrelevance, sadly.

 

+1, unless the HOS is kept for just the most egregious incidents, it looses it's bite.

 

I didn't vote either, I watch this forum but I got sidetracked and missed it, which is why I'd like the votes to be in CG, with a specific header, Proposal for So and So to enter the HOS, with the thread bumped so more people can see it. The more people who see it and vote, the more relevant any decision becomes.

 

But I don't think it will work without a lead statement, stating exactly what the HOS is for. I think there are newer people who think it equates to being told to sit in the corner in school. It's just that easy for new people to nagivate...or SOT either it seems;)

 

 

It might be a lack of experience or perspective, as many of the folks advocating most strongly for HOS in the last couple of incidents were not even here for most of the HOS member's inductions much less witnessed their actions first hand.

 

That might be the disconnect as if they don't realize there were full on 5 figures scams and criminal acts amongst those earlier inductees they make think that the PL list is a "jerk list" and the HOS is a "mega jerk list"

 

The red rocks and solarcadet inductions were the furthest afield we'd traveled. It departed from flat out theft and wanton forum destruction to more civil issues, borderline fraud, and simply lying. All are bad actions, but the HOS was carved out as a place mostly for those beyond (or not desirous of) rehabilitation. The argument for including those that thumbed their nose at the lies and misdeeds and the forum in general. That made sense. They didn't want to be here, conform to the laws of civility here, and do right by others here, so it was ensured they would get their wish and not be welcome here.

 

RR and Solar seemed mostly of this ilk. The new breed of unrepentant guys who don't care to conform to the rules set up or to take seriously their duties to others. I get that. It was a stretch from what the HOS started out at, but I got how the discussion went that way.

 

The Menace situation doesn't give me any sense of why or how this fits in with all the other "rogues". Even if ineffective and slow, he seems to be responding and attempting to fix his issues.

 

This leap, from Alleybat (for example), to Solarcadet, to Menace seems to have lost something in translation and it doesn't seem for the better.

 

 

Maybe it's time to have a third list? I'm personally tired of these guys who come along and cheat people and only feel remorse and try to make it right because they've been caught or called out.

 

 

Perhaps.

 

Right now we've got a "make things right" list and a "burn in the fires of hell for all eternity" list. We probably need a "relentless anus incapable of empathy and civil dealing" list to fit in between.

 

That's what I'm talking about. A registered repeat offender list. How many times have we seen people get on the PL and then decide 5 months later they want to sell again so they make people whole and get removed from the list?

 

This way a new member can look at this "buyer / seller" beware list and know there may be a chance they'll get screwed because the person has a history.

 

If someone goes on the PL put a ( ) next to their name with a number..it can represent how many times they we're put on the PL...could be a helpful step in the right direction

I'm not opposed to something like that. Unfortunately you'll get the bleeding hearts who will cry "scarlet letter" and shoot that idea down immediately.

Go F off Casey

Merry Christmas Greggy