Gerber Scarcity in the Internet Age

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Hey...I just wrote a piece on my blog about Gerber scarcity and what "Rare" should mean today, when we have the internet and can search world-wide for things we collect. I would love to get the thoughts of this community on this. A link to my blog is in my signature below...

Bottom line...Gerber defined "Rare" as 11-20 copes in existence. I think that range should be anything below 50 copies is "Rare".

Thoughts?

Yes. We need an updating of the scale.

Hey...I just wrote a piece on my blog about Gerber scarcity and what "Rare" should mean today, when we have the internet and can search world-wide for things we collect. I would love to get the thoughts of this community on this. A link to my blog is in my signature below...

 

Bottom line...Gerber defined "Rare" as 11-20 copes in existence. I think that range should be anything below 50 copies is "Rare".

 

Thoughts?

 

I am not sure what you are going for with your article. You do not define the Gerber Scarcity Index or show the SI of the Action 1, Detective 27, WDC&S 31 or the All Star 8. You do show their CGC census numbers. But you just jumped from Gerber's SI to these books with nothing to tie the two concepts together.

Perusing my own Gerber Guides, I see the following:

Action 1 - Gerber Scarcity Index of 7

Detective 27 - Scarcity Index of 6

All Star 8 - Scarcity Index of 5

WDC&S 31 - Scarcity Index of 5

Gerber uses the following for the SI:

11 - non-existent - known to have been printed but no copies known - Gerber has not assigned any books an 11

10 - unique - less than 5 copies known

9 - very rare - 6-10 copies

8 - rare - 11-20 copies

7 - scarce - 21-50 copies

6 - uncommon 50-200 copies

5 - less common than average 200-1000 copies

4 - average - 1000-2000 copies

3 - more common than average

2 - common

1 - very common

These are things you should be including in your article in order to make whatever case it is you want to make. Otherwise it really does not make a lot of factual sense.

It is a good idea but it needs fleshing out.

There are, as of today, 59 copies of AC1 ( Blue, Purple and Green )

Shouldn't its ranking drop to 6 ?

There are, as of today, 59 copies of AC1 ( Blue, Purple and Green )

 

Shouldn't its ranking drop to 6 ?

Gerber was around long before CGC-- how many CGC has graded has nothing to do with the Gerber scale, other than providing a concrete number for graded copies. Of any particular book, there are always copies 'in the wild', or otherwise unknown as of yet.

The Gerber data is going on 25 years old now as well... at least based on the copyright date in my Photo Journals.

A lot of copies could have came out of the woodwork in that amount of time.

Great discussion candidate for sure

xxx ooo

Rupp

Shouldn't "Unique" mean, by definition, only one?

I would guess that the majority of titles listed by Gerber scarcity have decreased in rarity by one or two levels since Gerber's original publication date.

One example for me would be Warrior Comics # 1 published in 1945 by HC Blackerby.

Gerber states scarcity at a 8 rare (11 - 20 copies exist).

CGC census states 22 graded copies (of which one of the midgrade copies sets right here on my desk).

Ebay has one of those slabbed copies for sale right now... plus one raw copy for sale.

A internet search pulled the following info from a Heritage sale which had 6 raws available ( Warrior Comics #1 Group (HC Blackerby, 1945) Condition: Average GD/VG. Includes six copies of #1. Only - Available at Sunday Internet Comics Auction #121136 ).

That's almost 30 copies available (or in known existence) right there...bringing it down in scarcity one level from the 20+ year old Gerber information.

That being said... levels 7 - 11 are going to be the levels most likely to be affected by the 20 year time span and growth of copies available.

Shouldn't "Unique" mean, by definition, only one?

We are all unique...

Here's a link to a discussion on Gerber and Overstreet scarcity ratings in Gold.

I would guess that the majority of titles listed by Gerber scarcity have decreased in rarity by one or two levels since Gerber's original publication date.

 

One example for me would be Warrior Comics # 1 published in 1945 by HC Blackerby.

 

Gerber states scarcity at a 8 rare (11 - 20 copies exist).

 

CGC census states 22 graded copies (of which one of the midgrade copies sets right here on my desk).

 

Ebay has one of those slabbed copies for sale right now... plus one raw copy for sale.

 

A internet search pulled the following info from a Heritage sale which had 6 raws available ( Warrior Comics #1 Group (HC Blackerby, 1945) Condition: Average GD/VG. Includes six copies of #1. Only - Available at Sunday Internet Comics Auction #121136 ).

 

That's almost 30 copies available (or in known existence) right there...bringing it down in scarcity one level from the 20+ year old Gerber information.

 

That being said... levels 7 - 11 are going to be the levels most likely to be affected by the 20 year time span and growth of copies available.

 

Shouldn't "Unique" mean, by definition, only one?

The actual reference in Gerber's Scarcity Index is as follows:

10. Unique. Or close to it. Less than 5 known copies in existence.

Hey...I just wrote a piece on my blog about Gerber scarcity and what "Rare" should mean today, when we have the internet and can search world-wide for things we collect. I would love to get the thoughts of this community on this. A link to my blog is in my signature below...

 

Bottom line...Gerber defined "Rare" as 11-20 copes in existence. I think that range should be anything below 50 copies is "Rare".

 

Thoughts?

 

Good post. This s a topic that needs more exposure.

 

I am not sure what you are going for with your article. You do not define the Gerber Scarcity Index or show the SI of the Action 1, Detective 27, WDC&S 31 or the All Star 8. You do show their CGC census numbers. But you just jumped from Gerber's SI to these books with nothing to tie the two concepts together.

 

Perusing my own Gerber Guides, I see the following:

 

Action 1 - Gerber Scarcity Index of 7

Detective 27 - Scarcity Index of 6

All Star 8 - Scarcity Index of 5

WDC&S 31 - Scarcity Index of 5

 

Gerber uses the following for the SI:

 

11 - non-existent - known to have been printed but no copies known - Gerber has not assigned any books an 11

10 - unique - less than 5 copies known

9 - very rare - 6-10 copies

8 - rare - 11-20 copies

7 - scarce - 21-50 copies

6 - uncommon 50-200 copies

5 - less common than average 200-1000 copies

4 - average - 1000-2000 copies

3 - more common than average

2 - common

1 - very common

 

These are things you should be including in your article in order to make whatever case it is you want to make. Otherwise it really does not make a lot of factual sense.

 

It is a good idea but it needs fleshing out.

 

Poverty Row...many thanks for the editorial feedback!! I really appreciate you taking the time and the thoughts everyone else had.

I will connect the dots on this tonight in the blog post. It is interesting, that Gerber is still not that far off on Action 1...and while there may still be copies "in the wild", I suspect there are not that many (I'll take a WAG and say fewer than 10...total guess)

As for Detective 27...I highly doubt there are more that 100 copies total out there. That probably should be Gerber 7. Anyone care to discuss that point? It's a bit of a guessing game I suppose. Like I said before, I highly doubt there are more than a small handful of ungraded copies of these caliber of books out there.

I'll have to rethink my interpretation of the numbers for All Star 8 and WDC&S 31.

Later...

P.S. Is Gerber still around...does anyone know? It would be great to get his thoughts.

 

I am not sure what you are going for with your article. You do not define the Gerber Scarcity Index or show the SI of the Action 1, Detective 27, WDC&S 31 or the All Star 8. You do show their CGC census numbers. But you just jumped from Gerber's SI to these books with nothing to tie the two concepts together.

 

Perusing my own Gerber Guides, I see the following:

 

Action 1 - Gerber Scarcity Index of 7

Detective 27 - Scarcity Index of 6

All Star 8 - Scarcity Index of 5

WDC&S 31 - Scarcity Index of 5

 

Gerber uses the following for the SI:

 

11 - non-existent - known to have been printed but no copies known - Gerber has not assigned any books an 11

10 - unique - less than 5 copies known

9 - very rare - 6-10 copies

8 - rare - 11-20 copies

7 - scarce - 21-50 copies

6 - uncommon 50-200 copies

5 - less common than average 200-1000 copies

4 - average - 1000-2000 copies

3 - more common than average

2 - common

1 - very common

 

These are things you should be including in your article in order to make whatever case it is you want to make. Otherwise it really does not make a lot of factual sense.

 

It is a good idea but it needs fleshing out.

 

 

Poverty Row...many thanks for the editorial feedback!! I really appreciate you taking the time and the thoughts everyone else had.

 

I will connect the dots on this tonight in the blog post. It is interesting, that Gerber is still not that far off on Action 1...and while there may still be copies "in the wild", I suspect there are not that many (I'll take a WAG and say fewer than 10...total guess)

 

As for Detective 27...I highly doubt there are more that 100 copies total out there. That probably should be Gerber 7. Anyone care to discuss that point? It's a bit of a guessing game I suppose. Like I said before, I highly doubt there are more than a small handful of ungraded copies of these caliber of books out there.

 

I'll have to rethink my interpretation of the numbers for All Star 8 and WDC&S 31.

 

Later...

 

P.S. Is Gerber still around...does anyone know? It would be great to get his thoughts.

I really appreciate you took my post in the right spirit. I did not want to damn you but I wanted you to really expand on your ideas. Feel free to copy/paste the specs I posted on the SI. I got them from my copies.

I know Ernst Gerber has passed but I am not sure when. I did a ton of internet searches to no avail trying to find when he passed, but I think it was some years ago.It sucketh the internet is not more revealing on this.

He did an amazing thing with his Photo Guides. I still have my original ones and they are in poor condition but due to the love of perusing them.

So go forth, make your points and expand on them! (thumbs u

I don't think any publication in the world of comic books can equal his Photo Guides.

I know Ernst Gerber has passed but I am not sure when. I did a ton of internet searches to no avail trying to find when he passed, but I think it was some years ago.It sucketh the internet is not more revealing on this.

If my memory isn't entirely faulty, I believe it was somewhere in the mid-90s. Maybe around '95-'96 or so.

After a bit of googling, it appears that my memory was, indeed, faulty.

He passed away in 2002.

I don't think any publication in the world of comic books can equal his Photo Guides.

Amen! (thumbs u

 

I am not sure what you are going for with your article. You do not define the Gerber Scarcity Index or show the SI of the Action 1, Detective 27, WDC&S 31 or the All Star 8. You do show their CGC census numbers. But you just jumped from Gerber's SI to these books with nothing to tie the two concepts together.

 

Perusing my own Gerber Guides, I see the following:

 

Action 1 - Gerber Scarcity Index of 7

Detective 27 - Scarcity Index of 6

All Star 8 - Scarcity Index of 5

WDC&S 31 - Scarcity Index of 5

 

Gerber uses the following for the SI:

 

11 - non-existent - known to have been printed but no copies known - Gerber has not assigned any books an 11

10 - unique - less than 5 copies known

9 - very rare - 6-10 copies

8 - rare - 11-20 copies

7 - scarce - 21-50 copies

6 - uncommon 50-200 copies

5 - less common than average 200-1000 copies

4 - average - 1000-2000 copies

3 - more common than average

2 - common

1 - very common

 

These are things you should be including in your article in order to make whatever case it is you want to make. Otherwise it really does not make a lot of factual sense.

 

It is a good idea but it needs fleshing out.

 

 

Poverty Row...many thanks for the editorial feedback!! I really appreciate you taking the time and the thoughts everyone else had.

 

I will connect the dots on this tonight in the blog post. It is interesting, that Gerber is still not that far off on Action 1...and while there may still be copies "in the wild", I suspect there are not that many (I'll take a WAG and say fewer than 10...total guess)

 

As for Detective 27...I highly doubt there are more that 100 copies total out there. That probably should be Gerber 7. Anyone care to discuss that point? It's a bit of a guessing game I suppose. Like I said before, I highly doubt there are more than a small handful of ungraded copies of these caliber of books out there.

 

I'll have to rethink my interpretation of the numbers for All Star 8 and WDC&S 31.

 

Later...

 

P.S. Is Gerber still around...does anyone know? It would be great to get his thoughts.

Take the upper end of how many copies you think there are of Action 1 and tec 27, then times that by quite a bit.

I would put all of those books at a 5 - less common than average 200-1000 copies

My guess would be 200-300 of each for the big two. But some guys in the golden age section think its even higher.

Most of the books Gerber thought were 7-10's turn out to be a lot more common. But sometimes he will under estimate a books rarity also.

Some examples of books that he thought were rare were:

Flash 56 (a Gerber no-show 8 I believe) but really no tougher to get than any other issue around it. In reality its more like a 5.

Suspense 3 He had it at a 9. But in truth its closer to a 6 - uncommon 50-200 copies.

Suspense 4 is actually a harder book to come by.

Some books like Dynamic 8 turned out to be a really hard book to find and truly rare.

Some romance books are harder than Gerber thought also.

Doesn't every 75 year old house have an Action #1 in it's walls? Where's my hammer?

I would guess that the majority of titles listed by Gerber scarcity have decreased in rarity by one or two levels since Gerber's original publication date.

 

One example for me would be Warrior Comics # 1 published in 1945 by HC Blackerby.

 

Gerber states scarcity at a 8 rare (11 - 20 copies exist).

 

CGC census states 22 graded copies (of which one of the midgrade copies sets right here on my desk).

 

Ebay has one of those slabbed copies for sale right now... plus one raw copy for sale.

 

A internet search pulled the following info from a Heritage sale which had 6 raws available ( Warrior Comics #1 Group (HC Blackerby, 1945) Condition: Average GD/VG. Includes six copies of #1. Only - Available at Sunday Internet Comics Auction #121136 ).

 

That's almost 30 copies available (or in known existence) right there...bringing it down in scarcity one level from the 20+ year old Gerber information.

 

That being said... levels 7 - 11 are going to be the levels most likely to be affected by the 20 year time span and growth of copies available.

 

Warrior is, in actuality, more like a 6 or even a 5. It's easier to find than a lot of Atom age DC books. Another one that's off is Target 7.

Actually, Warrior Comics was rather scarce, but there was a warehouse find in the 90's of the book, making it far more common.