Pre- Hero Marvels!!!!

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I like and aspire to collect ST & JIM #1-up, but I know that technically the earlier issues are late GA or Atom age (however they are defined). I'm sure it has been discussed, but please enlighten me as to the rationale for the cutoffs you guys mention. Is it post-Atlas implosion?

 

IMO, both the feel of the books and the Atlas roster of titles, and the Atlas staff (kirby/ditko as mentioned) changed significantly in Jan 1959. All of the "first pre hero" (as I define it) books mentioned above are Jan 59 dated, plus or minus a week or two.

 

Books prior to that I think of as "post-code" rather than "pre hero". It more or less boils down to the maneely/everett vs kirby/ditko eras, though there is more to it than that IMO.

 

Sad story though it is, I think Joe Maneely getting hit by a bus in mid 58 must have been a terrific shake up to the Atlas office and the Atlas product. I have to guess that was one of the unintended reasons for the change in direction. As a company they lost their most profilic employee in mid 58 and then three or four months later in fall 58 they are putting out these Jan 59 dated books...

I hear Joe Maneely was pushed!

Oh and if it doesn't have Kirby and Ditko doing the majority of the art, its not the prehero books that I'm interested in.

So if your saying pre hero's are from implosion till the hero's took over the list looks like this...

I think.

 

AA, AAF 1-14

JIM 49-82

ST 60-99

SW 1-5

TOS 1-38

TTA 1-34

WOF 9-19

 

166 comics

 

World of Fantasy 15-19 for me and the list looks good. 15 is the first Kirby cover and it is indistinguishable from the other early pre-hero books.

Total = 160

Well, for me, the pre-hero era is all about the Kirby and Ditko stories. I consider those to be the real roots of Marvel.

I don't have my referrence in front of me, but I think JIM #49 may be post-implosion (PI), but as it lacks the A-listers I don't throw it in. Strange Tales #67 is the first post-implosion book (I believe).

For the same reason, there are a few PI issues of World of Fantasy for which I feel nothing.

 

 

I think the implosion cover date month was October 1957. Only three comics were published that month...Cartoon Kids 1, Dippy Duck 1 and Patsy Walker 73. They went to 24 comics published on Sept 1957 to 8 comics published on Nov of 1957. Are you guys aware that JIM was not published in over a year in that time. Was it canceled and started back up? JIM 48 was published on Aug 1957. The next issue 49 was published on Nov 1958....over a year later. The first issue of Strange Tales after implosion was Strange Tales 60 was published on Dec 1957. First issue of Worlds of Fantasy was WOF 9 published also on Dec 1957.

The implosion was due to Atlas switching from their own distribution system (a subsidiary company which was shut down) to a national distributor that had been the dominant force in the US for decades. Unfortunately, Atlas switched right before the distributor was sued by the Feds as a monopoly and went under.

This left Atlas with piles of inventory (they were publishing 40+ books a month when it happened) leaving them without a distributor. Their best deal was with DC who limited them to 8 titles per month. They started the new art/stories as they finished using up their prior inventory.

There was an extended article on this topic in AlterEgo, iirc.

I agree.... and the date on worlds of fantasy ? Dec 58! (again, jan 59 or thereabouts!)

I also can't for a minute include those earlier strange tales.

I'm sorry but I just can't buy "Revenge of the Angry Laundry" as a pre-hero book IMO!

Very cool!

Well, for me, the pre-hero era is all about the Kirby and Ditko stories. I consider those to be the real roots of Marvel.

I don't have my referrence in front of me, but I think JIM #49 may be post-implosion (PI), but as it lacks the A-listers I don't throw it in. Strange Tales #67 is the first post-implosion book (I believe).

For the same reason, there are a few PI issues of World of Fantasy for which I feel nothing.

 

 

I think the implosion cover date month was October 1957. Only three comics were published that month...Cartoon Kids 1, Dippy Duck 1 and Patsy Walker 73. They went to 24 comics published on Sept 1957 to 8 comics published on Nov of 1957. Are you guys aware that JIM was not published in over a year in that time. Was it canceled and started back up? JIM 48 was published on Aug 1957. The next issue 49 was published on Nov 1958....over a year later. The first issue of Strange Tales after implosion was Strange Tales 60 was published on Dec 1957. First issue of Worlds of Fantasy was WOF 9 published also on Dec 1957.

 

The implosion was due to Atlas switching from their own distribution system (a subsidiary company which was shut down) to a national distributor that had been the dominant force in the US for decades. Unfortunately, Atlas switched right before the distributor was sued by the Feds as a monopoly and went under.

 

This left Atlas with piles of inventory (they were publishing 40+ books a month when it happened) leaving them without a distributor. Their best deal was with DC who limited them to 8 titles per month. They started the new art/stories as they finished using up their prior inventory.

 

There was an extended article on this topic in AlterEgo, iirc.

Right, great points, and that's why you can find Joe Maneely art in books as much as a year after his death.

Your point about them using old story inventory at first is particularly important because it implies that the early "restarted" titles had the exact same content as the old titles, and by extension, IMO.. that the implosion date isn't an appropriate cutoff

Your point about them using old story inventory at first is particularly important because it implies that the early "restarted" titles had the exact same content as the old titles.

All this pre-hero talk reminds me of one of my favorite comics trivia questions, what's the first comic to have both Ditko and Kirby art?

I would guess an issue of Black Magic?

Great List!

Wasn't Strange Tales 60 dated 8/57 (pre-implosion)? My list would start at Strange Tales 61 which was dated 2/58.

Your point about them using old story inventory at first is particularly important because it implies that the early "restarted" titles had the exact same content as the old titles.

I should have made it more clear -- those post-implosions do have the same style of covers & interiors as the pre-implosion issues because they were created under the same editorial guidance back in 1957.

that's precisely what I understood you to be saying. awkward wording on my part in saying "exact same content." I meant what you said

Great List!

 

Wasn't Strange Tales 60 dated 8/57 (pre-implosion)? My list would start at Strange Tales 61 which was dated 2/58.

That's what I thought, too.

(looking)

Current Overstreet concurs; #60 is 8/57.

Of course, I still only collect #67 on.

Great List!

 

Wasn't Strange Tales 60 dated 8/57 (pre-implosion)? My list would start at Strange Tales 61 which was dated 2/58.

 

That's what I thought, too.

(looking)

Current Overstreet concurs; #60 is 8/57.

 

Of course, I still only collect #67 on.

That's one less competitor for #1-66!

I went by cover dates. Cover date for ST 60 is Dec 1957.

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But a lot of people are saying implosion up is not he correct cut off point for the start and it should be 12/1958 (cover date) onward. So I the list would look like this....

AA, AAF 1-14

JIM 50-82

ST 66-99

SW 1-5

TOS 1-38

TTA 1-34

WOF 15-19

143 comics

Great List!

 

Wasn't Strange Tales 60 dated 8/57 (pre-implosion)? My list would start at Strange Tales 61 which was dated 2/58.

 

That's what I thought, too.

(looking)

Current Overstreet concurs; #60 is 8/57.

 

Of course, I still only collect #67 on.

 

That's one less competitor for #1-66!

+1

I went by cover dates. Cover date for ST 60 is Dec 1957.

 

[/img]

 

 

But a lot of people are saying implosion up is not he correct cut off point for the start and it should be 12/1958 (cover date) onward. So I the list would look like this....

 

AA, AAF 1-14

JIM 50-82

ST 66-99

SW 1-5

TOS 1-38

TTA 1-34

WOF 15-19

 

143 comics

I would agree with all of that except for ST 66; if you look at the creators for that issue it would seem to be implosion era inventory. (joe maneely cover for example despite he was already deceased for some time).

think on some titles its Dec 58 and on some its Jan 59.

I went by cover dates. Cover date for ST 60 is Dec 1957.

 

[/img]

 

 

But a lot of people are saying implosion up is not he correct cut off point for the start and it should be 12/1958 (cover date) onward. So I the list would look like this....

 

AA, AAF 1-14

JIM 50-82

ST 66-99

SW 1-5

TOS 1-38

TTA 1-34

WOF 15-19

 

143 comics

 

I would agree with all of that except for ST 66; if you look at the creators for that issue it would seem to be implosion era inventory. (joe maneely cover for example despite he was already deceased for some time).

 

think on some titles its Dec 58 and on some its Jan 59.

I wasn't looking carefully late night but in the light of day I like this new list and agree with Bronty that we tweak it by making it ST 67 - 99.

Down to only 142 issues to collect!

I went by cover dates. Cover date for ST 60 is Dec 1957.

 

[/img]

 

 

But a lot of people are saying implosion up is not he correct cut off point for the start and it should be 12/1958 (cover date) onward. So I the list would look like this....

 

AA, AAF 1-14

JIM 50-82

ST 66-99

SW 1-5

TOS 1-38

TTA 1-34

WOF 15-19

 

143 comics

 

I would agree with all of that except for ST 66; if you look at the creators for that issue it would seem to be implosion era inventory. (joe maneely cover for example despite he was already deceased for some time).

 

think on some titles its Dec 58 and on some its Jan 59.

I see your point. Again I just did the list from one solid point till the hero's arrived to see if everyone agrees on it as being THE Pre Hero's list. I think it easier to start at the same point....and ST 66 has the same cover date as SW 1. I need 16 more from the list I posted to have them all.

AA, AAF 1-14 done

JIM 50-82 done

ST 67-99 done

SW 1-5 need 4 and 5

TOS 1-38 done

TTA 1-34 done

WOF 15-19 need 15,17 and 19

...and none of the books listed as "needs" have Kirby stories.

well done sir!