Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 5681
Loc: Western Washington
There are some problems with the "D" Washington Quarters (1952D-1958D). These quarters do not start picking up any scores until MS67. In most cases there are effectively NO coins in this series above MS66 available for any "D" coin (NADA!!). It is a Catch 22 situation that needs some adjustment.
I have bought some of these MS66 "D" coins because someday, someone is going to realize that there is NO "D" Quarter inventory above MS66 for these dates, period, zip, nada!!.
The Score for this coin is 147 while a score for an 1996 Swimming 50C is 724. A total of 280 MS Washingtons have been graded by NGC, 55 have been given the grade of MS 69. Only 39 Swimming halfs have been graded by NGC but 35 of them recieved an MS 69 grade. Although there are far more Washington halfs than Swimming halfs I would bet there are far less MS69's. I don't think the same care was given in minting the 82 halfs as the 96 halfs, at least from what I have seen. Also the value of an 82 MS 69 Washington is at least five times that of a 96 MS 69 Swimming. I think this half should get a score of at least 800.
#6305 - 10/05/0208:52 AMRe: Official "Hey please check these scores" Thread
keithdagenkeithdagen
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3247
Loc: Plano, TX
Re: the Washington half vs the Swimming half, the Washington half is extremely hard in MS-69.
On Teletrade, a Swimming in PCGS MS-69 sold for $85 on 9/9/02. A Washington in NGC MS-69 sold for $425 on 8/7/02, and a PCGS MS-68 recently sold for about $120 on E-Bay.
For the Washington, the MS-69 score is as elusive as MS-70's for most modern commems. Bad packaging and handling make these hard to find without slide marks even in the mint packaging.
#6306 - 10/06/0208:11 PMRound Two of Moderns in the USA Type Set
[Re: keithdagen]
keithdagenkeithdagen
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3247
Loc: Plano, TX
OK, here's a look at the modern halves and dollars that are in the USA Type Set. Once again, all comparisons are to a MS-65 Peace Dollar 1922-1935, which gets 341 points in MS-65, market value of $65.
For MS, the scores are a bit low at the MS-67 level. Last Teletrade sale (4/1/02) of a PCGS MS-67 was for $625, and the coin only gets 724 points. That was the only PCGS or NGC Teletrade sale in the last year.
For PR, the non-Cam is a little high in PR-69. An NGC example recently traded for $25 here. The scores for the CAM are a little high as well, with a NGC PR-69CAM trading for $79 here. The scores for the UCAM piece are a little low, with the piece trading for $110 in NGC PR-66UCAM and going up to $1,100 in NGC PR-69UCAM .
For MS, I am assuming that the SMS pieces do not count for this slot. The MS-66 slot is a little high, with recent examples trading at $21 for a PCGS piece. The MS-67 slot is too low, with only one example being found on Teletrade in the last year, with a 1967 trading on 11/21/01 for $1,100.
For PR, a PCGS PR-69DCAM 1968-S sold for $228 recently and a PR-68DC went unsold with an opening bid of $60. Scores for the proofs should be reduced accordingly, and the CAM and non-CAM scores reduced relative to changes in the UCAM.
For MS, the scores look good with a caveat. If 2001 pieces are eligible, the MS-68 scores are high, with pieces going for around $125 for the 2001-P. The PR scores look good as well.
For MS, scores are good through MS-66. MS-67's are extremely rare, with only about 25 pieces graded total between PCGS and NGC. Last Teletrade price was $675 on 2/20/02. I sold mine about a month ago and had two offers near 4 figures for the coin. The PR scores look good.
For MS, the MS-68 score is a little low. I recently sold my example for $425, and could not find any other Teletrade auctions in the last year. The PR scores look good.
For MS, scores are good through MS-66. At MS-67, there are rarely offered, with only one piece offered on Teletrade in the last year and sold for $3,300 on 12/19/01. For PR, scores are high, with a PR-69UC recently selling for $30.
Once again, MS scores look good up to that really rare MS-67 piece. A 76-P Type 2 sold on Teletrade on 12/5/01 for $3,100. PR's are just slightly high, with a PR-69UC piece selling for $130 recently.
#6307 - 10/07/0206:50 AMRe: Round Two of Moderns in the USA Type Set
[Re: keithdagen]
DWLangeDWLange
NGC Research Director
Up 20 words per minute since I signed up
Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 1298
Loc: Florida
The 1982-D Washington Half Dollar has been rescored to reflect its rarity in high grades.
As an interesting aside, this issue was the only one in the modern commemorative series to be handled in the manner of normal coins. By that I mean that these pieces tumbled from the press into a tote bin, where they collided with other coins. Only after being conveyed to the packaging area were they then handled with special care. Of course, by that time, a fair number of marks had been racked up, accounting for the rarity of really clean examples.
Perhaps responding to complaints, the Mint revised its procedures for all subsequent commemoratives. Starting with the 1983 Olympic coins, all of these issues clearly have been struck two or more times and then removed from the press without coming into contact with other coins.
One more interesting note: When a friend of mine retired from his position as senior die-setter at the San Francisco Mint in 1987, he was permitted to give a few of us in the local numismatic community a behind-the-scenes tour of the facility. This was a rare privilege indeed, as the small size of the SFM precludes public tours of any kind. While in the basement melting room, I saw tote bins filled to the top with unsold 1982-S proof Washington Halves. These had been removed from their plastic capsules by running them through the upsetting mill, which compressed the capsules until they exploded into a spray of plastic shards. Obviously, protective wear was a necessity in this operation. These coins awaited melting, and it was a shock to see thousands of proofs all scuffed and nicked.
_________________________
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Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 5681
Loc: Western Washington
David: Problem is, that I do not believe that the mints (with these unsold Commems) know the actual net mintage sold. This creates an awkward situation with these coins because, although many Commems have high mintages, some don't and if coins went unsold, the Mint probably does not know what the net mintage sold is, (i.e. the 1976 Silver Commems: 4mm sold out of 11mm minted).
#6309 - 10/07/0212:38 PMRe: Round Two of Moderns in the USA Type Set
[Re: Oldtrader3]
DWLangeDWLange
NGC Research Director
Up 20 words per minute since I signed up
Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 1298
Loc: Florida
The net mintages are probably accurate to the nearest ten-thousand pieces or so. This won't matter with coins such as the regular proof sets, which are sold in the millions, but it may have an impact on the availability of some of the MS commemoratives, particularly the unpopular designs that had poor sales.
While I'm concerned about these vague figures from a numismatic standpoint, it bothers me even more as a taxpayer. It seems to me that a Mint employee could embezzle thousands of coins without it being detected by the accountants, assuming that he or she could find a way to actually remove them from the premises.
This sloppy accounting of collector coins seems to date from the time that the Mint received an enterprise fund and began to operate more as a commercial venture than as a government agency. The annual mint director's reports from the past fifteen years read more like stockholders' reports.
_________________________
Chairman of the Coin Board
#6310 - 10/07/0201:49 PMRe: Round Two of Moderns in the USA Type Set
[Re: DWLange]
keithdagenkeithdagen
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3247
Loc: Plano, TX
I think that the final reported mintages are pretty solid. The Mint reports figures for coins produced, sold, and unsold. The "offical" number is the sold number, and the unsold figure includes returns for quality control and those that never made it out of the Mint. It may be that the government will take its time in actually melting the unsold or returned portion, and in earlier years, I know that the selling windows were more flexible. I think since the Commemorative Coin Reform Act, the accounting has been a lot stronger for these issues.
As to the change to an Enterprise Fund, if the Feds are anything like local governments, the only reason for a change is that it is easier to swipe money from the coffers of enterprise funds, regardless of profit motive.
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 5681
Loc: Western Washington
Now the Franklin Halves need help. Sores for coins like the 1949-DFBL and 1950-DFBL are out of wack at 3 point apiece. These coins cost over $100 (the MS65FBL's are up in the thousands $).
