#5912217 - 08/09/1205:33 AMRe: Why all the hate for manufactured collectibles?
[Re: Racetrack]
WaylanderWaylander
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 3654
Loc: Olde Jersey
Originally Posted By: Anfield Fox
Originally Posted By: Waylander
Originally Posted By: Anfield Fox
Variant covers are short sighted. In the short term it will generate extra profits, in the long term it puts off collector's altoghether. We've seen it a million times.
The publishers know that a large portion of their fanbase are "completists" and will want every variant of the titles they collect. That OCD nature is exploited to increase profits. Everyone has a breaking point though.
ASM is my favourite title ever. I wanted to collect every issue and have every variant, reprint, special, giveaway, con edition, etc. However with each issue having multiple variants i eventually gave up. It became impossible for me to get hold of every issue with all the low print run variants that sell for hundreds of dollars each. Issue 666 for example had something like 400 different variants. I know other ASM completists like me who also just gave up.
The publisher's excuse is that "we put out multiple covers so people can buy the one they like most" but they know that's not the real reason.
Now look at how Walking Dead is exploiting it's fans. For the first 50 issues it was a fan favourite indy book with low print runs, then it's popularity exploaded and many fans became completists that they are also putting out multiple variants for each issue. Something like 16 covers for issue 100 including a 1:200 cover. Ridiculous.
I am one of those completist, and I will take my time to buy whatever variants I need to complete my runs - the keys is not to buy them when they first come out (even though for many I do )
However, you cannot just blame our industry for 'exploiting' its customers - every industry is looking to maximise its income especially in these hard times. So for WD, the publisher realised there was a growing market and bang - 16 covers that a LOT of people collected - good business from their point of view. But we are not the only industry that does this - the music industry always comes out with Remix A, Club Remix, Classical Remix of the same song - and why - people will buy it.
I must admit ASM 666 was taking the pee but there are still people who will hunt down every issue.
True Brian they will make lots of money in the short term but eventually people will loose interest and drop the books. It happened in the early 90's and if they keep going like this i fear it will happen again.
I love variants as well but when does it get too much?
I really do not mind variants IF the artist doing the variant is any good, what bugs the hell out me, is some unknown artist doing variants - but anyway...
I think the key that there is now a new set of collectors, many introduced to our hobby from watching the cool movies etc that have recently come out and they DO NOT know any better. It's when these 'new' collectors become disillusioned that it stops.
One of the variants that people are all over and no one moans about (except me in the quiet of my man cave) are blanks. They have been good for the publishers increasing sales and good for various artists who provide sketches, yet they're just another variant. Now, do not get me wrong, I very much enjoy seeing people's sketches but to me, its just a blank cover with a title.
_________________________
Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal. These things are for lesser men. Protect the weak against the evil strong. And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil.
Rather than post the same 'link' here. There is an excellent article that covers this topic in the 'bronze age' under the listing title' of the 'fallacy of the rule of 25.' You may want to check it out...
Kind Regards,
'mint'
Edited by mintcollector (08/09/1206:40 AM)
_________________________
Question: "I was wondering how you deal with collectors and speculators who truly believe that the items they are buying now are going to be worth a lot of money in the future...?"
ANSWER: "The safest approach is to avoid discussing the topic of future collectability with these individuals: first, they know more than anyone else; second, they are deaf to any opinion that does not agree with their own; third, they are misguided optimists, assuming past practice could not possibly apply in their case."
-Harry Rinker; 'The Myth of the Guaranteed Collectible' (originally posted on WorthPoint and Harry Rinker's own website)
It's the marketing that helps "create" this perception that these are valued within a cultural context.
In the comic back-issue hobby, it wasn't enough to value comics by grade and price. We needed to introduce the gamification of grading, "optimizing" and "reconditioning" comics to "create" an added layer of perceived value.
There are many more examples to advance this notion of "manufacturing" perceived value, and it follows then that a collectible must maintain some type of perceived external value, otherwise we would all be collecting bottle caps without a care what others think about their worth.
I know this isn't exactly along the same lines as you were saying, but wouldn't this site, where everyone comes to share their latest purchases and discuss books that might be under everyone's radar, wouldn't this site be the marketing you're talking about?
To some degree,this website is one big advertisement that we, the consumers, keep in existence. If there were no groups like this, or if everyone were forced to stay away for one year, would the bulk of us collect as much as we currently do? Or would that burst of desire to buy more books be lessened enough that our spending would take a major hit?
It's the marketing that helps "create" this perception that these are valued within a cultural context.
In the comic back-issue hobby, it wasn't enough to value comics by grade and price. We needed to introduce the gamification of grading, "optimizing" and "reconditioning" comics to "create" an added layer of perceived value.
There are many more examples to advance this notion of "manufacturing" perceived value, and it follows then that a collectible must maintain some type of perceived external value, otherwise we would all be collecting bottle caps without a care what others think about their worth.
I know this isn't exactly along the same lines as you were saying, but wouldn't this site, where everyone comes to share their latest purchases and discuss books that might be under everyone's radar, wouldn't this site be the marketing you're talking about?
To some degree,this website is one big advertisement that we, the consumers, keep in existence. If there were no groups like this, or if everyone were forced to stay away for one year, would the bulk of us collect as much as we currently do? Or would that burst of desire to buy more books be lessened enough that our spending would take a major hit?
This site is that and much more. I still think this site is one of the single best business decisions CGC made in its early inception. It corralled views and opinions on the hobby and grading and relieved the company from needing to chase the feedback, sentiment and views externally. But it evolved into something far more powerful than might originally have been intended. It became a place where we congregated to talk about everything and anything to do with the hobby and not just about the CGC service. This evolved into things like building sets (registry), population reporting, a reputation manager, sharing wins, comic covers, stories, selling, and all these things certainly help sustain our interest in the hobby.
#5912546 - 08/09/1210:26 AMRe: Why all the hate for manufactured collectibles?
[Re: comicwiz]
cd4evercd4ever This has been an educational post with no harm or ill will intented towards anyone & may I remind the mods I have been on these boards for nearly 10 years with nary a strike & only one warning & that was years & years ago. So please don't ban me.
TOTAL NEWBIE
Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 14696
Loc: Somewhere in middle America
If it's manufactured for the express purpose of being a collectible, it is most likely NOT a collectible! It is a rip off.
Collectibles are chosen by consumers based on age, desirability, demand, siginificance, and a dozen other random factors. WE decide what is a collectible, not the manufacturer.
Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 9931
Loc: Your mom's house.
Originally Posted By: cd4ever
Collectibles are chosen by consumers based on age, desirability, demand, siginificance, and a dozen other random factors. WE decide what is a collectible, not the manufacturer.
All companies are in business to make money. So why is it underhanded (I believe I saw someone post that earlier in this thread) to print variants to get those hardcore collectors to buy multiple copies? To make something "rare" so that people clamor to buy it? The publishers aren't in it to make a sustainable collectible. They don't really care if something does well on the secondary market 10 years from now. They just want the money in your pocket now. Sure, it helps if they can keep you coming back for more, and holding value might help that, but that's not high on their list of concerns.
Everything's marketing these days. The Internet especially. When it comes to things to buy, you have to wonder where the hype comes from. Comic "news" sites need to appease the publishers, so they hype hype hype. And sites like Marvel Masterworks just ensure that collections are on everyone's minds, keeping the spirit of buying alive and well. Hell, look at Amazon's reader feedback. Can you trust that? How many of those comments are from friends of the author, or from company stooges?
And yes, this site keeps CGC on everyone's minds, so it's the perfect marketing tool. Let us keep the spirit alive by making it seem we're all just here to talk comics.
I'm off topic a little. But it all just makes me wonder how the Internet and sites like this just perpetuate that collector's mentality. Seems that these manufactured collectibles feed on that urgency to own something right now before it becomes scarce, when in reality, the next scarce thing is going to be more important because of that need to buy right now, thus making anything that came before it obsolete. But to some degree, that urge to buy now, isn't that a factor in all collecting? Hulk 181 has been around for years, so why do I feel this need to buy it right now? I went this long without it, what's another year going to do?
Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 2051
Loc: Stockton on Tees UK
The comics industry is similar to the other entertainment industries in repackaging the same material and selling it to us again - movies as remakes - vidoes to DVD to blu-ray, music - records tapes CD's, re-releases etc.
It will stop if people stop buying
(Which they won't)
_________________________
I sold my first collection in 1995 for £1350. 6000 comics and 33 years down the pan. It won't happen again.
Steve H who are you? where are my Dads 57 comics you borrowed on 17.09.1980 and never returned? (Seriously they were key Silver Marvels so if you know him PM me)
Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 31680
Loc: London, England
Originally Posted By: cd4ever
If it's manufactured for the express purpose of being a collectible, it is most likely NOT a collectible! It is a rip off.
Collectibles are chosen by consumers based on age, desirability, demand, siginificance, and a dozen other random factors. WE decide what is a collectible, not the manufacturer.
A collectible is generally what was considered worthless and unimportant at the time of manufacture but incrementally grew in the marketplace whilst collectors were looking elsewhere.
If it's manufactured for the express purpose of being a collectible, it is most likely NOT a collectible! It is a rip off.
Collectibles are chosen by consumers based on age, desirability, demand, siginificance, and a dozen other random factors. WE decide what is a collectible, not the manufacturer.
Seems that what we decide is what's valuable. Or what's "worthy" of being collected from a monetary standpoint.
I collect football cards. A few each year. Some of these are "manufactured collectibles" in that they're limited in number. I pay between $3 and $20 for each one. In a couple of years, most of them would sell for $1 to $3. Does that make them any less collectible? I buy them to remember the players, to remember the hype over a certain rookie, etc. I still get that regardless of whether or not a particular card is worth what I paid.
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