#5866845 - 07/22/1212:20 AMRe: The Heritage / Pedigree Schmell Collection Auction has started...
[Re: Mark 1]
lou_finelou_fine
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 3800
Originally Posted By: Mark 1
Originally Posted By: Bronty
I can understand both POVs but how much potential overgrade are we talking about? .2 or .4 at best IMO as from that pic the chipping does look very minor indeed. Based on the scan I'd have guessed 9.2 or even 9.4, its not like its a 7.0 with major chunks out and a complete grading travesty.
I agree 100%.
And I disagree 100%!
After all, these are uber HG SA Marvel books which we are talking about. If it were not for these 0.2 or 0.4 grade differences, these would be nothing more than your average HG run of the mill Marvels of which there are tons of copies out there. I would agree with your point if the difference in price between these 0.2 and 0.4 grade differences were insignificant, but clearly since there is a significant difference in price, then these minor fluctuations in grades are indeed quite important.
It 's not like we are talking about truly rare Centaur books whereby even low-grade restored copies can go for 30+X condition guide. With these types of books, the grade is far less significant as collectors are willing to pay through the nose just to get any copy of the book. Definitely not the case with the SA Marvels as the price is determined almost entirely by the CGC label as opposed to the underlying book itself.
#5867256 - 07/22/1210:10 AMRe: The Heritage / Pedigree Schmell Collection Auction has started...
[Re: lou_fine]
HepcatHepcat
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.
Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 4696
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: lou_fine
After all, these are uber HG SA Marvel books which we are talking about. If it were not for these 0.2 or 0.4 grade differences, these would be nothing more than your average HG run of the mill Marvels of which there are tons of copies out there. I would agree with your point if the difference in price between these 0.2 and 0.4 grade differences were insignificant, but clearly since there is a significant difference in price, then these minor fluctuations in grades are indeed quite important.
It 's not like we are talking about truly rare Centaur books whereby even low-grade restored copies can go for 30+X condition guide. With these types of books, the grade is far less significant as collectors are willing to pay through the nose just to get any copy of the book. Definitely not the case with the SA Marvels as the price is determined almost entirely by the CGC label as opposed to the underlying book itself.
I agree 100%. That's why I think it's the label collectors that bid the uber high grade slabs up to stratospheric prices.
_________________________ Collecting? It's what I do!
#5869120 - 07/23/1202:33 AMRe: The Heritage / Pedigree Schmell Collection Auction has started...
[Re: tth2]
lou_finelou_fine
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 3800
Originally Posted By: tth2
Originally Posted By: Hepcat
Originally Posted By: tth2
What's really amazing is the depth of the SA keys in the auction, beyond just Doug's books.
Really? I just took the trouble to do a search for these titles:
Adventures of the Fly Adventures of the Jaguar Drag Cartoons Fox & the Crow Mystery in Space Tales of the Unexpected Flash Green Lantern Spooky Wendy Little Dot Hot Stuff
How many comics do you think I found from my Want List?
Clearly I was talking about the number of different copies available of several keys. I don't think I've ever seen so many copies of X-Men #1 or TOS #39 for auction all at once.
From my point of view, the entire strength of the SA market comes from its depth even though it is an extremely narrow market. Although there is really less than 10 titles driving the entire SA market, there are literally thousands of copies of each of these titles in decent enough shape that it is able to keep almost the entire back issue comic book market going. I can't imagine what the dealers would be doing if the SA Marvels books were not so abundant.
The strength in the GA market certainly doesn't come from its depth, but much more so from its breadth. There are just so many different titles out there and yet there still seems to be a market niche for all of these different titles. Of course, the majority of the GA demand is for the big 2 publishers, but you also have a strong niche market for books such as the Centaurs, Archies, early Fox, GGA, etc.
People always say that the GA market will die off as the GA collectors die off and the SA market will seemingly stay strong forever. I don't actually see this happening as interest seems to actually be going up in a lot of the GA titles outside of the big 2 publishers. Yet at the same time, it seems as if collectors have already forgotten all of the SA titles outside of the big 2 publishers.
#5870016 - 07/23/1203:23 PMRe: The Heritage / Pedigree Schmell Collection Auction has started...
[Re: Scrooge]
lou_finelou_fine
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 04/29/03
Posts: 3800
Did anybody else noticed that Doug's TTA run is not complete!
His Tales to Astonish run starts with issue #35 instead of the key #27 issue. What's up with that? I thought somebody with Doug's OCD behaviour would have made sure that the entire run was complete before putting them onto the market.
Did anybody else noticed that Doug's TTA run is not complete!
His Tales to Astonish run starts with issue #35 instead of the key #27 issue. What's up with that? I thought somebody with Doug's OCD behaviour would have made sure that the entire run was complete before putting them onto the market.
Yep, what an amateur. And he calls himself a collector
#5870317 - 07/23/1205:31 PMRe: The Heritage / Pedigree Schmell Collection Auction has started...
[Re: lou_fine]
BrontyBronty You know that guy that shows up an hour early for parties? Yah. I'm him.
TOTAL NEWBIE
Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 15270
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: lou_fine
Did anybody else noticed that Doug's TTA run is not complete!
His Tales to Astonish run starts with issue #35 instead of the key #27 issue. What's up with that? I thought somebody with Doug's OCD behaviour would have made sure that the entire run was complete before putting them onto the market.
Maybe he is like me and doesn't really consider the #27 to be the first ant-man. IMO the only reason #27 has gotten so much traction all these years is because the cover of #35 stipulates "the return of" the ant-man. But #27 was really not a hero book - he was just "the man in the ant-hill". Realistically what seems to have happened is they published a man in the ant hill story, wanted another hero, and said, hey, let's use that concept we published 8 issues ago. So you end up with a "man in the ant-hill story" that was not done as an "ant-man" story at all, and then with a first "ant-man" that claims to be a second appearance. So which is first? To my eye until you had the intent in #35 to bring him on as a hero you didn't have a "Ant-Man" character (rather a "man in the ant-hill" character), and therefore considering #27 to be the first appearance would be like considering Tales of Suspense #16 to be the first appearance of Iron Man. There are similarities in both but they are not 1st appearances.
Its not like Doug couldn't have bought a #27 if he wanted one (granny's trust account jokes aside)
Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 8386
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Originally Posted By: Bronty
Originally Posted By: lou_fine
Did anybody else noticed that Doug's TTA run is not complete!
His Tales to Astonish run starts with issue #35 instead of the key #27 issue. What's up with that? I thought somebody with Doug's OCD behaviour would have made sure that the entire run was complete before putting them onto the market.
Maybe he is like me and doesn't really consider the #27 to be the first ant-man. IMO the only reason #27 has gotten so much traction all these years is because the cover of #35 stipulates "the return of" the ant-man. But #27 was really not a hero book - he was just "the man in the ant-hill". Realistically what seems to have happened is they published a man in the ant hill story, wanted another hero, and said, hey, let's use that concept we published 8 issues ago. So you end up with a "man in the ant-hill story" that was not done as an "ant-man" story at all, and then with a first "ant-man" that claims to be a second appearance. So which is first? To my eye until you had the intent in #35 to bring him on as a hero you didn't have a "Ant-Man" character (rather a "man in the ant-hill" character), and therefore considering #27 to be the first appearance would be like considering Tales of Suspense #16 to be the first appearance of Iron Man. There are similarities in both but they are not 1st appearances.
Its not like Doug couldn't have bought a #27 if he wanted one (granny's trust account jokes aside)
But, yes he could have owned those issues as well....your theory sounds right to me.
Did anybody else noticed that Doug's TTA run is not complete!
His Tales to Astonish run starts with issue #35 instead of the key #27 issue. What's up with that? I thought somebody with Doug's OCD behaviour would have made sure that the entire run was complete before putting them onto the market.
the description of the collection in the Heritage catalog explains that Doug has been winnowing his collection for a while. i'm fairly certain he had a FF #1 9.4 that he received in trade from TB when Doug handed over his 9.6. that book ended up being sold (i guess) and he 'downgraded' to the 9.2 WM.
IMO the only reason #27 has gotten so much traction all these years is because the cover of #35 stipulates "the return of" the ant-man. But #27 was really not a hero book - he was just "the man in the ant-hill". Realistically what seems to have happened is they published a man in the ant hill story, wanted another hero, and said, hey, let's use that concept we published 8 issues ago. So you end up with a "man in the ant-hill story" that was not done as an "ant-man" story at all, and then with a first "ant-man" that claims to be a second appearance. So which is first? To my eye until you had the intent in #35 to bring him on as a hero you didn't have a "Ant-Man" character (rather a "man in the ant-hill" character), and therefore considering #27 to be the first appearance would be like considering Tales of Suspense #16 to be the first appearance of Iron Man. There are similarities in both but they are not 1st appearances. 
