#5703954 - 05/22/1202:47 PMRe: My Official Dallas Comic Con Report
[Re: Buffyfan]
DavidMerryweatherDavidMerryweather
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 11/21/10
Posts: 3537
Loc: The nearest pub
Originally Posted By: Buffyfan
Originally Posted By: MedicAR
Originally Posted By: Buffyfan
Yeah, the DFW area is pretty "dumb" when it comes to CGC...
Thanks for the background info. It always interesting to learn how these shows have evolved over time.
I am sad to say I completely forgot about Doug Sneyd. I intended to pick up a print but just forgot to make it back to his table.
It is really hard for me to define what makes KC more family friendly, especially since you brought up the Olivia incident. KC has had Playboy models and pinup artists, and to a much greater degree than I saw at DCC. It's just an overall attitude, possibly combined with the total number of kids. Like I say, I may have missed the vibe by being behind the table all day.
I have to say I'm impressed when any show organizer/promoter can pull off the balance of comics and media. DCC seemed to have done it well this weekend and KC has done it every year I've been there.
I don't know if it was possible, but the one thing I would have changed would have been having all the guests in one area on the floor. It's a picky little thing, and unless I missed something, there simply wasn't the room on the convention center floor.
The history of the Dallas convention scene is worthy of a book, or at the very least, a series of magazine style articles. Talk to any of the long time dealers about the now gone Dallas Fantasy Fair and you'll here plenty of crazy, but interesting stories. It's interesting to me how Texas managed to play a role in comic collecting history, including the Church collection.
As far as the convention center. I never would have thought that it would out grow it in just a years time. They didn't either. They are contracted for at least another year so we'll see what happens.
You can read more about Dallas and Oklahoma Comics Fandom in this thread started awhile back in the GA Forum...
There's a lot of interesting anecdotal craziness to weed through, but it's lots of fun. For instance, the DFF was known far and wide by regular attendees as LarryCons, but you'll have to read through the FANDOM thread to learn why.
_________________________
Wanted (8.5+): Captain America #1-4; Mystic #6, 8-10; Hit Comics #21-23; Silver Streak #8 ...and many MOAR!
#5704011 - 05/22/1203:04 PMRe: My Official Dallas Comic Con Report
[Re: Davenport]
BuffyfanBuffyfan "I don't feel like a freaknut..."
"Sometimes you don't."
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Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 13382
Loc: Watching the Lunatics Run the ...
Originally Posted By: Davenport
Originally Posted By: Buffyfan
The history of the Dallas convention scene is worthy of a book, or at the very least, a series of magazine style articles. Talk to any of the long time dealers about the now gone Dallas Fantasy Fair and you'll here plenty of crazy, but interesting stories. It's interesting to me how Texas managed to play a role in comic collecting history, including the Church collection.
Your posts bring back a flood of memories of DFF, Dallas Collector's Expo and those early Ben Steven's toy shows.
Here's an old Ben Stevens flyer where he first switched from Toys to Celebrity stuff (and his table prices jumped accordingly).
I was set up at that show and had the best tables in the room underneath a facade that looked like an old movie theater marquee that had been used in various films.
It was as if my tables were the entrance to an old downtown theater.
_________________________
WANTED: (preferably pedigreed) Extreme High Grade Vampirella's Savage Sword of Conan Magazines needed VF++ or better: 18, 30, 31, 32, 33, 36, 129, 132, 192, 194, 196-200, 204-210, 216, 217, 218, 221, 223 http://www.donwalthropphotography.com
“Widespread acceptance of an idea is not proof of its validity. -Robert Langdon”
#5704192 - 05/22/1203:57 PMRe: My Official Dallas Comic Con Report
[Re: DavidMerryweather]
BuffyfanBuffyfan "I don't feel like a freaknut..."
"Sometimes you don't."
TOTAL NEWBIE
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 13382
Loc: Watching the Lunatics Run the ...
Originally Posted By: DavidMerryweather
Originally Posted By: Buffyfan
Originally Posted By: MedicAR
Originally Posted By: Buffyfan
Yeah, the DFW area is pretty "dumb" when it comes to CGC...
Thanks for the background info. It always interesting to learn how these shows have evolved over time.
I am sad to say I completely forgot about Doug Sneyd. I intended to pick up a print but just forgot to make it back to his table.
It is really hard for me to define what makes KC more family friendly, especially since you brought up the Olivia incident. KC has had Playboy models and pinup artists, and to a much greater degree than I saw at DCC. It's just an overall attitude, possibly combined with the total number of kids. Like I say, I may have missed the vibe by being behind the table all day.
I have to say I'm impressed when any show organizer/promoter can pull off the balance of comics and media. DCC seemed to have done it well this weekend and KC has done it every year I've been there.
I don't know if it was possible, but the one thing I would have changed would have been having all the guests in one area on the floor. It's a picky little thing, and unless I missed something, there simply wasn't the room on the convention center floor.
The history of the Dallas convention scene is worthy of a book, or at the very least, a series of magazine style articles. Talk to any of the long time dealers about the now gone Dallas Fantasy Fair and you'll here plenty of crazy, but interesting stories. It's interesting to me how Texas managed to play a role in comic collecting history, including the Church collection.
As far as the convention center. I never would have thought that it would out grow it in just a years time. They didn't either. They are contracted for at least another year so we'll see what happens.
You can read more about Dallas and Oklahoma Comics Fandom in this thread started awhile back in the GA Forum...
There's a lot of interesting anecdotal craziness to weed through, but it's lots of fun. For instance, the DFF was known far and wide by regular attendees as LarryCons, but you'll have to read through the FANDOM thread to learn why.
Thanks for posting this. Here's the story of the fall of the Dallas Fantasty Fair as relayed to me from the inside by Mark Walters who was Larry's "right-hand" at the time with some of my own memory of the events added to hopefully round-out the story.
Larry was a hell of a promotor. No one disputes this Under his Bulldog Productions name he was quite successful with putting these shows together eventually building it to the 3rd largest in the country.
I seem recall that he was doing 4 mini-cons a year with the DFF being the premiere event. It's hard for people to fathom having so many mini-cons in one area but the key to remember is that this was before the Internet. The only way to find a lot of this stuff was at these types of cons or through mail-order.
What Walters told me was that when Larry moved from doing the cons in hotels he didn't consider at the time that the hotel was providing tables, chairs, table covers, etc and going to Dallas Market Hall (which is so big they hold car shows in it) that he would now have to pay a catering company to supply all of the things that the hotel was previously providing as part of the contract fee.
This led to basically double the cost for using Market Hall because the catering bill was equal to the space fee. Approximately $30,000
$30,000 twenty years ago was a heck of a lot of money and when you've got a $60,000 bill staring at you in the face Larry chose to pay the facility and "float" the caterer along for a year. He usually couldn't pay the caterer until having the next DFF!
Because of this he would end up using a different caterer because he still owed the first one and then would float the second one along until the next year.
By the time the third one happened the caterer was not pleased at all and had filed suit. The injunction against the DFF occurred on opening day and as you stated in the other thread the doors were padlocked by the police.
Now, here's the catch. Olivia De Berardinis' art rep (whose name slips my mind) gets ahold of Larry and says, "Hey, what's going on here?" Larry and Walters explain to him that they owe the caterer $30,000. He offers this... He will pay the caterer's bill to get the show open but he wants to own the Dallas Fantasy Fair. He doesn't want to take controll of it, only to own it and wants Larry to stay on as a paid promotor because promoting is what he did best.
Larry's ego got the better of him and he said no, causing the DFF to fall apart and for several dealers (including Bedrock I believe) to try and pick up the pieces.
It was a huge blow to the Dallas convention scene. We went from having one of the premiere events in the country to having nothing but the small hotel ballroom cons. Most of those weren't even comic related but were toy related. This event also left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths that I think is finally starting to dissolve.
The DFF was the first convention to bring together all of the Image artists in one place. This doesn't sound like much now but back then they were the rock stars of the comic world. The Harvey Awards were held at the DFF also.
If anyone reading this has any more information that they would like to relay then please do. If you don't want to state anything publicly but privately, that would do also as I'm trying to compile some information that I may write up some articles on in the future.
I've considered contacting Larry because I'd love to get his take on the events, especially now 20 years later.
_________________________
WANTED: (preferably pedigreed) Extreme High Grade Vampirella's Savage Sword of Conan Magazines needed VF++ or better: 18, 30, 31, 32, 33, 36, 129, 132, 192, 194, 196-200, 204-210, 216, 217, 218, 221, 223 http://www.donwalthropphotography.com
“Widespread acceptance of an idea is not proof of its validity. -Robert Langdon”
#5704267 - 05/22/1204:16 PMRe: My Official Dallas Comic Con Report
[Re: Buffyfan]
BuffyfanBuffyfan "I don't feel like a freaknut..."
"Sometimes you don't."
TOTAL NEWBIE
Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 13382
Loc: Watching the Lunatics Run the ...
August 7-9, 1992 Dallas Fantasy Fair guest list: (notice Larry King on there)
Dean Andersson, author of TORTURE TOMB, RAW PAIN MAX and BURIED SCREAMS Sergio Aragones, MAD MAGAZINE and GROO. Peter Bagge, HATE and NEAT STUFF Neal Barrett, Jr, THROUGH DARKEST AMERICA, THE HEREAFTER GANG Mike Benton, author of THE COMIC BOOK IN AMERICA, HORROR COMICS, and othe comics history books. Charles Berlin, BLOOD OF DRACULA, NINJA HS, HELYUN. Steve Bissette, SWAMP THING, ALIENS: TRIBE, and TABOO Robert Bostick, WINGS: LEARNING TO FLY, JAB, GRIMJACK Bob Burden, FLAMING CARROT Steven Butler, Marvel artist, including PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL, XFACTOR, SILVERSTORM, BADGER, etc. Sam Calvin, FXRH editor Todd Camp, CARNIVAL OF SOULS Shane Campos, SHOTTLOOSE Lillian Steward Carl, SAZABEL, SHADOW DANCER, etc. Sandra Chang, ACHILLES STORM Margaret Clark, DC comics editor Dan Clowes, EIGHTBALL Mike Collins, PETER CANNON THUNDERBOLT, all the way from England Robert Crumb, FRITZ THE CAT, comics legend. Aline Kominsky-Crumb, editor WEIRDO Scott A. Kupp, horror and SF writer Mark David Dietz Cyndi Drolet, DOMAINS OF DARKNESS Keith Randal Duncan, special effects makeup artist Steve Erwin, DEATHSTROKE: THE TERMINATOR Ernest Farino, Director STEEL AND LACE, MONSTERS, LAND OF THE LOST William Foster, MR. AVERAGE Mark Finn, SHOTTLOOSE John Fischner, stop-motion animator Sue Flaxman, MARVEL FANFARE, SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN, etc Tom Florimonte, Jr, CAT AND MOUSE, HEATSEEKER, KREY Brad Foster, MECHTHINGS Al Frank, Caliber Press contributor Josh Alan Friedman, WARTS AND ALL, ANY SIMILARITY TO PERSONS... Kerry Hammill, Marvel and DC artist *spoon* Giordano, Vice President DC comics Alan Grant, LOBO, PETER CANNON, etc. From England. Frank Gresham, GRATEFUL DEAD COMIX Gary Groth, THE COMICS JOURNAL Ina Guzman, MU Press letterer. Bo Hampton, VIKING PRINCE, TALES OF THE DARK KNIGHT Bill Haney, SHOTTLOOSE Ray Harryhausen, special FX legend. JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS, CLASH OF THE TITANS, etc. Tex Henson, cartoon animator, CHIP AND DALE, TRIX RABBIT, etc. Gilbert Hernandez, LOVE AND ROCKETS, BIRDLAND Jaime Hernandez, LOVE AND ROCKETS Walt Holcombe, HYENA Kenneth Huey, LAFF RIOT Sam Hurt, EYEBEAM, QUEEN OF THE UNIVERSE Jaxon, SECRET OF SAN SABA, LAST OF THE MOHICANS Cameron Johnson, Daily Texan artist Shane Johnson, STAR TREK expert Kelley Jones, RED RAIN, ALIENS, SANDMAN R.A. Jones, SCIMIDAR, SINBAD, DARK WOLF. Tom Joyner, HAMMERLOCKE Gil Kane, comics legend. GREEN LANTERN, THE ATOM, AMAZING SPIDERMAN. Carlos Kastro, NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD. Michael Kennedy, CHUCK THE BARBARIAN, HEROINES Larry King, cable access comic creator Tom King, HYENA, DETENTION HALL TEEN SQUAD Denis Kitchen, Kitchen Press guru. Richard Klaw, publisher Blackbird Comics Harvey Kurtzman, comics legend. EC Comics, MAD, PLAYBOY. Mark Lamberti, KDFI film expert Michael Lark, AIRWAVES, TAKEN UNDER John Lecour, OMNIBUS: A MODERN PERVERSITY Roxanne Longstreet, STORMRIDERS John Lucas, SHOTTLOOSE Roland Mann, SILVERSTORM, CAT AND MOUSE Mike McCarthy, KID ANARCHY, CADAVERA Aubrey McCarthy, JAB, GYLANIA Lance Meyer, BIXs COMIX Craig Miller, RENEGADE RABBIT Randy Moore, ROBOCOP 2 prop designer Ginette Moreno, Daily Texan artist Morgan, small press John Morrison, award-winning glass sculptor Lou Mougin, comics historian Dean Mullaney, Founder of Eclipse Comics Martin Nodell, comics legend. GREEN LANTERN Eddie Numes, HYENA Nina Paley, GRATEFUL DEAD COMIX Butch Patrick, aka Eddie Munster Barry Pattengill, SHOTTLOOSE John Petersen, ROCKMEEZ Jonathan Peterson, TEEN TITANS editor Tom Peyer, DOOM PATROL and ANIMAL MAN editor Joe Preston, OMNIBUS Michael Price, THE PROWLER, CARNIVAL OF SOULS Don Ivan Punchatz, illustrator Jackson Reddick, MARAUDER Jaxon Renick, OPEN SPACE Joe Riley, DOA, LONESOME DOVE fx makeup artist Debra Rodia, AIRWAVES, TAKEN UNDER Nina Romberg, THE SPIRIT STALKER, SHADOW STALKERS Jeff Rovin, Nintendo expert Mark Schultz, XENOZOIC TALES Julius Schwartz, Silver Age comics legend. former DC editor, THE FLASH Gilbert Shelton, underground comics legend, FABULOUS FURRY FREAK BROS Lewis Shiner, FRONTERA, SLAM, THE TIME MASTERS David Sims, BROTHERMAN Jason Sims, BROTHERMAN Doug Smith, aka Ivan Stang, subGenius guru Kenneth Smith, PHANTASMAGORIA Chris Sprouse, HAMMERLOCKE Mark Stokes, ZOMBIE BOY Sonny Straight, MR. AVERAGE Martin Thomas, GRIMJACK Jim Thompson, CARtoons artist Terry Tidwell, MIRACLE SQUAD, TWILIGHT AVENGER, UNCANNY MANFROG Roy Tompkins, TRAILER TRASH David Tosh, minicomics expert William Traxtle, SHOTTLOOSE Wayne Truman, Eclipse and Viz comics Kevin Tuma, DAN TURNER, THE ELEMENTALS Ashley Underwood, GYLANIA, AUTODUEL QUARTERLY James Vance, KINGS IN DISGUISE, OWLHOOTS Martin Wagner, HEPCATS Reed Waller, OMAHA Bob Wayne, DC comics Wayno, BEER NUTZ Shannon Wheeler, CHILDREN WITH GLUE Mack White, HYENA Mel. White, DUNCAN AND MALLORY, ALADDIN CHRONICLES David Whitley, special fx Sidney Williams, AZARIUS,NIGHT BROTHERS, BLOOD HUNT Al Williamson, comics legend. WEIRD SCIENCE, WEIRD FANTASY, FLASH GORDON, STAR WARS. Keith Wilson, HAMMERLOCKE John Wooley, DAN TURNER, PLAN 9. Kate Worley, OMAHA Randall Worley, SHOTTLOOSE cat yronwode, Eclipse editor Glen Zgaby, SHOTTLOOSE (again...)
_________________________
WANTED: (preferably pedigreed) Extreme High Grade Vampirella's Savage Sword of Conan Magazines needed VF++ or better: 18, 30, 31, 32, 33, 36, 129, 132, 192, 194, 196-200, 204-210, 216, 217, 218, 221, 223 http://www.donwalthropphotography.com
“Widespread acceptance of an idea is not proof of its validity. -Robert Langdon”
#5704323 - 05/22/1204:33 PMRe: My Official Dallas Comic Con Report
[Re: Buffyfan]
DavidMerryweatherDavidMerryweather
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 11/21/10
Posts: 3537
Loc: The nearest pub
Originally Posted By: Buffyfan
Originally Posted By: DavidMerryweather
Originally Posted By: Buffyfan
Originally Posted By: MedicAR
Originally Posted By: Buffyfan
Yeah, the DFW area is pretty "dumb" when it comes to CGC...
Thanks for the background info. It always interesting to learn how these shows have evolved over time.
I am sad to say I completely forgot about Doug Sneyd. I intended to pick up a print but just forgot to make it back to his table.
It is really hard for me to define what makes KC more family friendly, especially since you brought up the Olivia incident. KC has had Playboy models and pinup artists, and to a much greater degree than I saw at DCC. It's just an overall attitude, possibly combined with the total number of kids. Like I say, I may have missed the vibe by being behind the table all day.
I have to say I'm impressed when any show organizer/promoter can pull off the balance of comics and media. DCC seemed to have done it well this weekend and KC has done it every year I've been there.
I don't know if it was possible, but the one thing I would have changed would have been having all the guests in one area on the floor. It's a picky little thing, and unless I missed something, there simply wasn't the room on the convention center floor.
The history of the Dallas convention scene is worthy of a book, or at the very least, a series of magazine style articles. Talk to any of the long time dealers about the now gone Dallas Fantasy Fair and you'll here plenty of crazy, but interesting stories. It's interesting to me how Texas managed to play a role in comic collecting history, including the Church collection.
As far as the convention center. I never would have thought that it would out grow it in just a years time. They didn't either. They are contracted for at least another year so we'll see what happens.
You can read more about Dallas and Oklahoma Comics Fandom in this thread started awhile back in the GA Forum...
There's a lot of interesting anecdotal craziness to weed through, but it's lots of fun. For instance, the DFF was known far and wide by regular attendees as LarryCons, but you'll have to read through the FANDOM thread to learn why.
Thanks for posting this. Here's the story of the fall of the Dallas Fantasty Fair as relayed to me from the inside by Mark Walters who was Larry's "right-hand" at the time with some of my own memory of the events added to hopefully round-out the story.
Larry was a hell of a promotor. No one disputes this Under his Bulldog Productions name he was quite successful with putting these shows together eventually building it to the 3rd largest in the country.
I seem recall that he was doing 4 mini-cons a year with the DFF being the premiere event. It's hard for people to fathom having so many mini-cons in one area but the key to remember is that this was before the Internet. The only way to find a lot of this stuff was at these types of cons or through mail-order.
What Walters told me was that when Larry moved from doing the cons in hotels he didn't consider at the time that the hotel was providing tables, chairs, table covers, etc and going to Dallas Market Hall (which is so big they hold car shows in it) that he would now have to pay a catering company to supply all of the things that the hotel was previously providing as part of the contract fee.
This led to basically double the cost for using Market Hall because the catering bill was equal to the space fee. Approximately $30,000
$30,000 twenty years ago was a heck of a lot of money and when you've got a $60,000 bill staring at you in the face Larry chose to pay the facility and "float" the caterer along for a year. He usually couldn't pay the caterer until having the next DFF!
Because of this he would end up using a different caterer because he still owed the first one and then would float the second one along until the next year.
By the time the third one happened the caterer was not pleased at all and had filed suit. The injunction against the DFF occurred on opening day and as you stated in the other thread the doors were padlocked by the police.
Now, here's the catch. Olivia De Berardinis' art rep (whose name slips my mind) gets ahold of Larry and says, "Hey, what's going on here?" Larry and Walters explain to him that they owe the caterer $30,000. He offers this... He will pay the caterer's bill to get the show open but he wants to own the Dallas Fantasy Fair. He doesn't want to take controll of it, only to own it and wants Larry to stay on as a paid promotor because promoting is what he did best.
Larry's ego got the better of him and he said no, causing the DFF to fall apart and for several dealers (including Bedrock I believe) to try and pick up the pieces.
It was a huge blow to the Dallas convention scene. We went from having one of the premiere events in the country to having nothing but the small hotel ballroom cons. Most of those weren't even comic related but were toy related. This event also left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths that I think is finally starting to dissolve.
The DFF was the first convention to bring together all of the Image artists in one place. This doesn't sound like much now but back then they were the rock stars of the comic world. The Harvey Awards were held at the DFF also.
If anyone reading this has any more information that they would like to relay then please do. If you don't want to state anything publicly but privately, that would do also as I'm trying to compile some information that I may write up some articles on in the future.
I've considered contacting Larry because I'd love to get his take on the events, especially now 20 years later.
Fascinating details. I knew Larry quite awhile before he started DFF, when he was still working Dallas area shows put on by early Texas fandom noteables Larry Hearndon and Joe Bob Williams, among others. I also had a small involvement with the hastily put together show that dealers organized when DFF was shut down by the caterer's injunction.
As an auctioneer of some repute I volunteered to auction off Larry's infamous egg-plant suit that he'd donated to the new convention as his last act as a show promoter. I started the auction off with the line "I understand that this has been taken to the cleaners!"
Edited by DavidMerryweather (05/22/1204:36 PM)
_________________________
Wanted (8.5+): Captain America #1-4; Mystic #6, 8-10; Hit Comics #21-23; Silver Streak #8 ...and many MOAR!
#5711163 - 05/24/1201:13 PMRe: My Official Dallas Comic Con Report
[Re: bryan91]
mysteriomysterio
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.
Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 4095
Loc: Texas
I had to go to Baton Rouge the Sunday after the con, so I wasn't able to get any pics or report uploaded until today. Anyway, here are a few photos and some impressions of this fantastic show.
First off, as many have mentioned, the show was packed! I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that there were 20,000 attendees, it felt like there were that many on Saturday alone. Here is one shot from my spot in the line to get in, taken at 11:07 am, which is over an hour after the doors were supposed to open at 10 am, and 7 minutes after the later start time that the promoters apparently decided upon overnight.
Inside the con the situation wasn't any better. Aisles were really crowded for most of the day on Saturday. Here are a couple of shots, the top one of a random aisle on the dealer floor at 2 pm, the lower one a shot of the lobby as I was coming back down from the autograph rooms on an upper floor.
The escalators broke down a couple of times, and many times throughout the middle part of Saturday there were literally fire marshalls in the building keeping an eye on the crowd.
_________________________ Finally complete! Now I would like to upgrade to 7.0-8.0 copies of Amazing Adventures #3 & 6.
#5711181 - 05/24/1201:20 PMRe: My Official Dallas Comic Con Report
[Re: mysterio]
mysteriomysterio
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.
Registered: 06/25/10
Posts: 4095
Loc: Texas
Here is a shot of Stan Lee signing at the DWC booth (in the green shirt in the background) with the DWC folks doing pretty much what they were doing all show, handling SS paperwork.
Here is Neal Adams signing at his table. Very nice guy, I got a copy of his All-Star Superman #1 variant signed for a friend.
Here is Bedrock's booth, the one setup I thought to take a photo of. I couldn't get a wide photo due to the crowd, so I got some of the better stuff. I bought a couple of pre-hero JIM books from Richard that will be on their way to CGC tomorrow.
And last, but certainly not least, here are a few cosplay photos. The pink anime girl was definitely the class of a very good group of costumes.
This was an excellent show that has grown a lot from what was already a large show last year. As I've said elsewhere, if they could manage to schedule this show on a weekend where it wasn't up against other large shows (Big Wow and Motor City this year, NYCC last year) this show is ripe for more large comic dealers and a bigger guest list. It'd also be a good show for CGC to consider attending for SS.
_________________________ Finally complete! Now I would like to upgrade to 7.0-8.0 copies of Amazing Adventures #3 & 6.