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#5663056 - 05/08/12 06:41 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: MrBedrock]
batman_fan Offline
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Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 6507
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: comicdonna
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.
So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?


I will break it down for you Rich

Me + buying + crazy bidding = bad
Me + selling + crazy bidding = good

_________________________
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Looking for original art from any of the Batman animated comic lines, especially splashes and covers.
Looking for Norm Breyfogle Batman and Detecive Covers and Splashes

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My most wanted for Original Artwork Covers. If you have them and wish to let them go, please contact me!

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#5663062 - 05/08/12 06:44 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: MrBedrock]
G.A.tor Offline

only a schmuck would want a custom title...

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Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 46949
Loc: The Gator Nation
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: comicdonna
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.
So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?
I believe this type of bidding causes some folks to "re think" their selling strategy...for example, because of a current heritage bid, a seller yesterday, can now want much more for a comparable book...thinking it is all of a sudden worth 3x, due to a crazy bid at an auction house (mind you, not a verified completed transaction, but a bid)... it inflates not only the auction copy, but in many cases (like someone pointed out today with an action on clink and like killercomics mentioned) other copies in the market...these inflated prices can slow potential buyers, and cause market stagnation...bad

it also takes some potential longer term collectors, and casts a very bad light on their purchases once they find out that they paid 10x FMV and can't even feel comfortable in recouping their purchase price... no matter how altruistic we want to be as collectors, anyone paying 10x market for a book is getting taken to the cleaners in a bad way...and that has to leave a bad taste in their mouth (and potentially others)...

it also can create the housing bubble analogy... we need steady and realistic price growth to maintain the health of our hobby...price stability is key in any market... in virtually all instances, these type of price variations hurt markets in both the short and longer term
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#5663068 - 05/08/12 06:46 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: G.A.tor]
Dr Carl Offline
Talkative?


Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 579
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!


I'd like to add my 2 cents here...

Price stability is very important to any market. When prices take wild fluctuations, new investors/collectors who start to study the market realize that this is a poor place to invest/collect because of these wild fluctuations.

Additionally, more seasoned investors/collectors tend to back off for a time to allow the market to regulate itself in an effort to avoid getting caught up in an unsustainable frenzy.

Sellers get a sense that their books are worth more than they are, and so dealers end up with fewer books to sell because the dealers wont meet the unreasonable demands...

In the short term, dealers have less, sellers end up disappointed (with the exception of a lucky 0.1%), seasoned collectors/investors may step back some, and new investors/collectors are scared off...

bad for the hobby...


Edited by Dr Carl (05/08/12 06:47 PM)

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#5663082 - 05/08/12 06:48 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: batman_fan]
comicdonna Offline

This is what my dog thinks of your post.

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Registered: 01/07/05
Posts: 23065
Loc: Near Albany NY
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
Me + selling + crazy bidding = good

If I owned the Action #36 CGC 8.5, I would be concerned that the sale of $26K plus would never be completed. This is just one example in this auction.

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#5663103 - 05/08/12 06:53 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: G.A.tor]
batman_fan Offline
TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 01/01/04
Posts: 6507
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: comicdonna
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.
So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?
I believe this type of bidding causes some folks to "re think" their selling strategy...for example, because of a current heritage bid, a seller yesterday, can now want much more for a comparable book...thinking it is all of a sudden worth 3x, due to a crazy bid at an auction house (mind you, not a verified completed transaction, but a bid)... it inflates not only the auction copy, but in many cases (like someone pointed out today with an action on clink and like killercomics mentioned) other copies in the market...these inflated prices can slow potential buyers, and cause market stagnation...bad

it also takes some potential longer term collectors, and casts a very bad light on their purchases once they find out that they paid 10x FMV and can't even feel comfortable in recouping their purchase price... no matter how altruistic we want to be as collectors, anyone paying 10x market for a book is getting taken to the cleaners in a bad way...and that has to leave a bad taste in their mouth (and potentially others)...

it also can create the housing bubble analogy... we need steady and realistic price growth to maintain the health of our hobby...price stability is key in any market... in virtually all instances, these type of price variations hurt markets in both the short and longer term


So Rick, are you saying Mr Keller won't be return to comic collecting \:o (I know I wouldn't if I took the pounding he took).
_________________________
Who can sleep Alfred when there is so much work to do?
Looking for original art from any of the Batman animated comic lines, especially splashes and covers.
Looking for Norm Breyfogle Batman and Detecive Covers and Splashes

3500th post -> I believe the term is "circle jerk"

my Comic Art

My most wanted for Original Artwork Covers. If you have them and wish to let them go, please contact me!

Top
#5663127 - 05/08/12 06:59 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: batman_fan]
Silver Surfer Offline

Man this is just a reminder of how much work I haven't done in the last 8 years!

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Registered: 03/12/04
Posts: 26673
Personally I find it hard to believe that big players like Keller and Cage could stay out of comics for good. I think we have all stepped away from the hobby at some point but if cash isn't an issue I just think it would be difficult for a guy like Cage for example [who probably has a real love for the hobby] to not get excited about wanting to collect again. Try and imagine having to step away from comics for good, how difficult would that be?
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#5663264 - 05/08/12 07:46 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: batman_fan]
G.A.tor Offline

only a schmuck would want a custom title...

TOTAL NEWBIE


Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 46949
Loc: The Gator Nation
 Originally Posted By: batman_fan
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: comicdonna
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.
So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?
I believe this type of bidding causes some folks to "re think" their selling strategy...for example, because of a current heritage bid, a seller yesterday, can now want much more for a comparable book...thinking it is all of a sudden worth 3x, due to a crazy bid at an auction house (mind you, not a verified completed transaction, but a bid)... it inflates not only the auction copy, but in many cases (like someone pointed out today with an action on clink and like killercomics mentioned) other copies in the market...these inflated prices can slow potential buyers, and cause market stagnation...bad

it also takes some potential longer term collectors, and casts a very bad light on their purchases once they find out that they paid 10x FMV and can't even feel comfortable in recouping their purchase price... no matter how altruistic we want to be as collectors, anyone paying 10x market for a book is getting taken to the cleaners in a bad way...and that has to leave a bad taste in their mouth (and potentially others)...

it also can create the housing bubble analogy... we need steady and realistic price growth to maintain the health of our hobby...price stability is key in any market... in virtually all instances, these type of price variations hurt markets in both the short and longer term


So Rick, are you saying Mr Keller won't be return to comic collecting \:o (I know I wouldn't if I took the pounding he took).
hehe
_________________________
"Ack!" and "Thbbbt!"
I am Gator, and I approve this message!
28967 was detective27kid's last post (4 u Nik)

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#5663271 - 05/08/12 07:47 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: KILLERKOMICS]
MrBedrock Offline

Bedrock City sells breathmints!

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Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 18946
Loc: Home of the Astros
 Originally Posted By: KILLERKOMICS
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: comicdonna
 Originally Posted By: MrBedrock
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!
Why?
If it continues, it may give a buyer like myself an insecure feeling purchasing from an auction house.

So crazy, and possibly uniformed bidding undermines your faith in the auction system. I tend to agree with that, though I just step away from items that are going for stupid prices. Those silly bids have little affect on me personally. And we do tend to get excited about some sales prices that to the uninformed would seem silly, such as $2,000,000 for what is possibly the second or third best Action 1. The auction system itself is set up so whoever wants to pay the most for an item has ample opportunity.
So ultimately why is out-of-whack bidding a bad thing?


Heres one of many reasons;

First when a book goes for beyond stupid money, as we are seeing presently at HA, the next guy with that exact same book in the same grade thinks his book is valued at that same price level and now the book gets held hostage at its new over inflated price. The next guy with the same book but half grade point less believes his book is worth slightly less than the over priced book. And this also happens with the guy who owns the same book in a higher grade as he wants more than the HA price or even a multiple of that sale, and so on, and so on. You get the idea. Finally, collectorS who would like to purchase said book for their personal collection or to complete a run can no longer do so, as its out of their price range. Why? Because of one stupid sale at auction which may or may not be real. Proof of this is when this senario happens on a book, you see dealers pulling that same book off their website as they do not want to under sell that same book. Also, you see it happen on Ebay, the book goes from $X to $5X. The book gets stagnate all of a sudden due to that one sale at auction which most everyone sees. And if this happens on enough books, the average collector can not afford to buy therefore slowing down the hobby and some getting out. My 2 cents!

So is it a good thing when something sells for a ridiculously low price at auction or on eBay?
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#5663295 - 05/08/12 07:51 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: Dr Carl]
rodan57 Offline
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.


Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 4198
Loc: Small Town Ontario
 Originally Posted By: Dr Carl
 Originally Posted By: G.A.tor
if I have said it once, I have said it 3.7 times...this kind of bidding is BAD for our hobby!


I'd like to add my 2 cents here...

Price stability is very important to any market. When prices take wild fluctuations, new investors/collectors who start to study the market realize that this is a poor place to invest/collect because of these wild fluctuations.

Additionally, more seasoned investors/collectors tend to back off for a time to allow the market to regulate itself in an effort to avoid getting caught up in an unsustainable frenzy.



Yep.
_________________________
I try to imagine my collection as what could sit on the bookcase shelves of a slightly compulsive teenage boy who collects every Marvel, circa Christmas 1965. The collection would sit in neat piles beside a ball glove and an Aurora model of the Mummy.

~My Transcendental 12¢
Dennis

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#5663312 - 05/08/12 07:54 PM Re: what is going on at heritage? [Re: Silver Surfer]
nearmint Online   content
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Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 23962
Loc: Newport Beach, CA, where the o...
 Originally Posted By: Silver Surfer
Personally I find it hard to believe that big players like Keller could stay out of comics for good.


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Currently available on DETECTIVE27.COM: Tales of Suspense #57 CGC 9.0(1st Hawkeye), America's Best Comics #1 CGC 8.5(highest graded), Batman #27 CGC 9.0, Batman #40 CGC 9.2, Strange Adventures #205 9.4, and World's Finest #2 CGC 8.0(highest graded).

WANTED: A COVERLESS ACTION 13 IN NICE SHAPE. Also, high grade copies of Action #39, 40, Adventure 267, 282, 283, Batman #11, Brave & the Bold #28, Captain America #37, Detective #69, and Superboy 93.


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