#5654831 - 05/05/1202:30 PMRe: If you are an expert grader of one series, you can be the same with other series
[Re: MarkFeld]
coinman1794coinman1794
I was posting here when you were in diapers.
Registered: 03/02/02
Posts: 3448
Originally Posted By: MarkFeld
Do you agree or disagree? Either way, why?
To some extent (of course every series has its nuances because of differences in design elements), it is the same theory of grading being applied to all series. To truly be an expert grader in a series would require knowing what every date looked like, in every die, and every die state. You have to understand the die state and type of luster you are dealing with, and then you can apply the standard across the board. Knowing that an MS64, Spanish 8 Real, with its satiny luster should look very different than an 1880-S Morgan in MS64, with semi-PL brilliance and frosty devices, will help the grader know where to begin the evaluation. That is not to say that the 8 Real is held to a lower standard; on the contrary. Coins that are not dripping with mint bloom simply because they were struck from a satin finish die shouldn’t be penalized for it. However, surface marks might be more readily apparent on a satiny coin than a PL coin. What if it was the first 8 Real off the die, with Prooflike fields and frosty devices? If the marks from a satiny coin were transferred over the PL coin, the grade might go up. Once you understand the finish of the original coin, you can apply the universal standard.
Of course. But it takes time to learn this new series, right?
In fact, if you are NOT an expert grader of any series right now you can certainly become one eventually...obviously...since many people have. Takes time...a lot of it too.
jom
I do not believe that everyone can necessarily become an expert grader - not even with the benefit of a lot of time. I know some dealers who have been around for a long time and are not good graders. On the other hand, some people seem to pick it up very quickly, even at relatively young ages
Originally Posted By: cpm9ball
Mark, wouldn't you agree that each series has their own set of characteristics unique to that series? If that is the case, then someone who has mastered grading, say, Morgan dollars would not necessarily be proficient grading CBH's.
Chris
Yes, Chris. However, generally speaking, I believe that if a person has the talent, opportunity and help needed to learn to grade one series expertly, odds are good that he can do the same with another series. That said, I understand that certain series are more difficult than and further removed from others.
Originally Posted By: PerryHall
Knowing how to grade one series certainly makes it easier to learn to grade another series since the basic principles of coin grading applies to all coins.
I agree.
Originally Posted By: Dcoin
Aren't TPG graders expected to grade a wide range of series?
We consider them experts no?
Many of the TPG graders, yes. But not all of them.
You can, and if you collect or deal in items like Hard Times and Civil War tokens which have different designs and strike characteristics, you need those skills to be a good grader in those areas.
After you have had a lot of experience with grading coins, you get know about the the surfaces of the coins and tokens in various grades. You get to know more about weak and strong strikes and how coins wear.
You will always consult the grading books now and then, but there are basic skills that all accurate graders learn.
_________________________
-- Retired dealer. I am a numismatic author. I specialize in choice early coins and poltitical tokens. I've been collecting coins, tokens and medals for over 50 years. Check my type sets! Type Set My gold type set Gold Type Set
#5655479 - 05/05/1208:21 PMRe: If you are an expert grader of one series, you can be the same with other series
[Re: BillJones]
Kenneth FKenneth F
Up 20 words per minute since I signed up
Registered: 05/16/10
Posts: 1224
Loc: Ft Huachuca, AZ
I refuse to think "I" will ever be an expert... once you believe you are an expert, you stop reading and listening to others around you.. before you know it, you are behind the times.
I will continue to read everything I can about Morgans.. to my end of days!
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 5681
Loc: Western Washington
It was implied that grading is an educated best estimate based on experience, training and subjectivity. As for the scam side of the business, I will leave it to others to answer that because I lack specificity, knowledge and sufficient experience in this area to be competent to comment.
I agree that many collectors end up upside sown in some coins, particularly some notables from famous collections, depending on when graded. This bolus of material is out there hanging over the market and is a disquieting factor to me and probably many other collectors and dealers. I do not have a solution for this except time and TPS grade review.
What I do know is that each individual human has slightly different perception of color shading and differing processing skills coupled with mental sorting or grouping skills in integrating all of the aspects of grading into a single number which becomes stamped in concrete (or plastic in this case) forever, or at least until the next coin show.
Machines can and will be able to grade coins subjectively soon, if not already. Many humans (at least some humans) will not like the subjectiveness of this repeatable process because of the many nuances that are part of human grading and are difficult to quantify in any meaningful way that would necessarily stand up to the scrutiny of other experts.. I am not targeting this at anyone, just generalizing.
I can only expect that my own grading skills are sufficient to meet my own collecting needs in those series in which I have an interest. I am not putting my grading judgement up against anyone else's. There is no justifiable reason to.
#5656645 - 05/06/1211:22 AMRe: If you are an expert grader of one series, you can be the same with other series
[Re: Oldtrader3]
RWBRWB
FACT if I stop posting, trillions and trillions of transistors would be out of work.
Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 4489
The expert coin grader does not operate the way most collectors assume. The "mental model" they use differs from what is taught in the grading seminars and in the multitude of grading books. Experts in other fields have similar "mental models," but teaching that to others is a difficult and lengthy process.
_________________________
Author of “Renaissance of American Coinage” (NLG Book-of-the-Year 3 years in a row) series and “Guide Book of Peace Dollars,” NLG 2011-Best Software: “Annual Assay Commission, United States Mint, 1800-1943,” and “Silver Dollars Struck under the Pittman Act.” Federal Court-approved numismatic expert. Contributor to the Red Book, Judd Patterns and many other fine numismatic books, discoverer of two gold patterns, and author of numerous coin research articles.
Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 5681
Loc: Western Washington
It stands to reason that it would be such, Roger. Otherwise, they are selling much of what many of us already have assimilated, plus much greater experience.
